Is salvation by grace alone? Or faith alone? Or grace through faith? or by faith plus repentance?

[createdtoworship]

@gradyll

In other words, there is a huge difference between

Option #1. "Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism" (that does not include God's grace through faith in Christ) vs.
Option #2. "God directed Works done through the believer (after they are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ).​

Paul was arguing against Option #1., and he was not arguing against Option #2.
Arguing against "Works" in general is to confuse the issue, and it is a common mistake many make when they read Paul (Which would sort of be like this picture below):

Many think Paul is easy to understand. But he is not. Even Peter says this of Paul's writings,

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16).

In other words, people misunderstood Paul even back during the early church years and they used his words as a license to live as they please (living in sin by doing what they want) instead of being in service to the Lord.

"And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:21).

19 "What? know ye not that... ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).

How do we glorify GOD in our body and in our spirit?

By good works.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).

Many today think that they glorify GOD by just believing in the finished work of the cross, but 1 Corinthians 6:20 and Matthew 5:16 tell a different story.

Jesus said that the person who DOES NOT DO what He says, they are like a fool who built their house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27).

"When you say "just reach out," it sounds like your quoting the actor who played Bill Graham from the Unbroken: Path to Redemption movie. Unfortunately, the real Billy believed in Eternal Security. For I believe this to be a false doctrine. I believe Eternal Security is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. If there is one false belief that makes my blood boil the most, it is Eternal Security. To me, it is against everything that GOD and Jesus stand for. Eternal Security is not only easily disproven by Scripture in numerous ways, but it is disproven easily based on a person doing a basic morality test or check by way of real world example. Eternal Security can be disproven by the fact that there are tons of verses that talk about falling away. It can be disproven by looking at verses that use the word "if" in relation to our standing with GOD. It can be disproven by looking at the verses on how works play a part in the salvation process after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. It is disproven by looking at those verses that say we are to continue in God's grace, continue in the faith, and continue in His goodness. It is disproven by looking at the verses that talk about how sin can separate a believer from GOD from Genesis to Revelation. So I am not even remotely interested in buying' in what our selling. To me it is like your offering stinky garbage as good food or something. Non-Eternal Security Belief Alone-ism (Free Will Baptism) is no different. Both Eternal Security and the Free Will Baptist belief justify the idea that one can sin and still be saved on some level. For you yourself have admitted that the carnal Christian is saved and you have implied that it sounds impossible that a believer can overcome certain sins like lusting after women, and they cannot help the poor, or they cannot give away a good amount of their possessions, etc. For you seem to be in disbelief that we cannot give a second coat to the poor (as if to sound like it is unreasonable or something) by your criticism of the Google document you provided to me. The problem is that it makes it appear like you are not believing what Jesus and His followers told us to do. You say it is impossible. But with GOD, all things are possible.

I was just watching a ray comfort video. And He said something I really agree with. He said that say I had a new home built and the electricians said that on tuesday the power would be ready, and wednesday came and it was not ready, then thursday came and it was still not ready. Then I doubted the validity of their message. Then eventually next week came and a note was on the door that said "power on- Fred" . And fred was the owner. Then as I walked in I switched the light switch on. See the power verified the message. It's the same with the Bible. You can talk all you want about the controversies of theology, calvinism, armenianism etc. But the validity is in the power of the gospel over sin. I don't have to debate if a whale swallowed jonah, or if lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt, or if all the animals of the earth came 2 by 2 onto noah's arc, or if Jesus truly walked on water, or fed 5000 with a sack lunch. I don't have to debate all those things because the message is verified by the power. When I see an alcoholic change His life over, after recieving Christ. That is when I know the Bible is true. When I see a prostitute leave that lifestyle and celebrate singleness waiting for marriage to her future husband, I see God's word verified. I don't need proof of the miraculous, because the power of the gospel is where the proof is at. If we saved ourselves, then it would not work. Because like the above illustrations, the alcoholic has come to an end of self. That is why he became christian, because he was broken by his sin. He realized that there is no way he can save himself, only Christ can save. So again being saved by works is utter foolishness, there is no power there. Just carnality and fleshly behaviour. Hebrews six calls it "dead works."

 

[Dr. Jack]

The English is translated from the original languages. So to say that the English has a different meaning is to trust a Lexicon or scholar over what the Bible plainly says in our language. I choose the Bible because God says that He preserved His Word for us today. So there is no basis for a discussion or debate if the foundation of the basis for what we consider to be God's Word is removed. I just read and believe the Bible plainly. You don't read Lexicons and Concordances in life for other written works in English.

I am simple and I know I will stand before GOD in what it simply said and not in some group of religious dudes thought that the Bible said with the creation of a Lexicon and Concordance. Yes, a Lexicon and Concordance can be helpful tools sometimes, but they should not be a replacement for the Bible. There is no special filter for understanding His Word. Just read it, and believe it. That's it. So then, how do we define a word? By the context or by looking at the surrounding words. Leave the word in question in a blank space (kind of like fill in the blank with the best word) to fit the rest of what the text says. This is how to understand what the Bible says in regards to its words. The interpretation you use for "repent" is nonsensical, friend. It does not fit the context and it reads like mumbo jumbo in certain passages. For "repent" does not exclusively meaning a change of mind. That would render many passages as being meaningless or confusing. But you are free to believe as you wish, of course.

So if, according to you, if I am actually reading the original language, I must deny my understanding of μετανοέω, and use the 'your' understanding of the English "repent", (seeking forgiveness with God).

Unfortunately, that isn't the meaning of μετανοέω.
μετανοέω is a compound word. μετα and νοιεω; μετα meaning "amid" or "after"; and νοιεω "to think". Hence, you think differently after, than you thought prior; or, change of mind.

In Isaiah we read,
1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah

The idea behind the word repent, is that after reasoning upon a matter, we change our mind as to how we think, or believe concerning a particular matter. There isn't a single use of the word "repent" in Scripture that this meaning cannot be used to allow a proper understanding of the narrative, in context.

Remember, words have meanings for a reason. Changing the meaning of the word, results in changing the theological application of the narrative.

I'm not saying that one doesn't turn from sin as a RESULT of repentance; but turning from sin ISN'T "repentance" itself. You see, I only turn from sin, BECAUSE I have changed how I believe concerning Christ. The cart must come AFTER the horse, not go before it.

That is precisely why John 3:18 is worded as it is:

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John

As long as you do not believe in the name of Christ for salvation, you are in a condemned state. As soon as you change your mind and believe in the name of Christ, you are no longer condemned.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was just watching a ray comfort video. And He said something I really agree with. He said that say I had a new home built and the electricians said that on tuesday the power would be ready, and wednesday came and it was not ready, then thursday came and it was still not ready. Then I doubted the validity of their message. Then eventually next week came and a note was on the door that said "power on- Fred" . And fred was the owner. Then as I walked in I switched the light switch on. See the power verified the message. It's the same with the Bible. You can talk all you want about the controversies of theology, calvinism, armenianism etc. But the validity is in the power of the gospel over sin. I don't have to debate if a whale swallowed jonah, or if lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt, or if all the animals of the earth came 2 by 2 onto noah's arc, or if Jesus truly walked on water, or fed 5000 with a sack lunch. I don't have to debate all those things because the message is verified by the power. When I see an alcoholic change His life over, after recieving Christ. That is when I know the Bible is true. When I see a prostitute leave that lifestyle and celebrate singleness waiting for marriage to her future husband, I see God's word verified. I don't need proof of the miraculous, because the power of the gospel is where the proof is at. If we saved ourselves, then it would not work. Because like the above illustrations, the alcoholic has come to an end of self. That is why he became christian, because he was broken by his sin. He realized that there is no way he can save himself, only Christ can save. So again being saved by works is utter foolishness, there is no power there. Just carnality and fleshly behaviour. Hebrews six calls it "dead works."

You appear to be stuck in a feedback loop of believing that I hold to Works Alone Salvationism. Please stop. I believe we cannot be saved without God's grace and that we need to continue in His grace.

As for the proof that Christians are changed by the kind of gospel you promote and believe:
A person can change by believing in Jesus Christ as their Savior. This is where salvation starts, but it is not where it stops. A person can start off correctly but they can also fall away like in the Parable of the Sower where some fell away. One fell away due to not wanting to be persecuted, and another fell away due to the cares and the riches of this life.

You also do not have secret devices monitoring their thoughts, and their intentions of the heart 24/7 over the course of many years by your gospel. You really do not know their life. In your view, the Carnal Christian is saved. So I do not take this as a believer living a holy lifestyle or that teaching this leads to a holy lifestyle. You said there is good fruit or evidence or proof in changed lives. But yet you appear to ask me that I must lust after women always (Which implies that no believer can overcome such a sin - when such is not true). Paul says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in he fear of God. But the Eternal Security proponent sings a different tune.

So no. I don't believe you.
I trust the Bible in what it says 100 times over vs. your own experience.
Plus, in my experience, I have witnessed various different Eternal Security proponents preaching a double message when it comes to holy living. Their message appears to be contradictory.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So if, according to you, if I am actually reading the original language, I must deny my understanding of μετανοέω, and use the 'your' understanding of the English "repent", (seeking forgiveness with God).

Unfortunately, that isn't the meaning of μετανοέω.
μετανοέω is a compound word. μετα and νοιεω; μετα meaning "amid" or "after"; and νοιεω "to think". Hence, you think differently after, than you thought prior; or, change of mind.

In Isaiah we read,
1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah

The idea behind the word repent, is that after reasoning upon a matter, we change our mind as to how we think, or believe concerning a particular matter. There isn't a single use of the word "repent" in Scripture that this meaning cannot be used to allow a proper understanding of the narrative, in context.

Remember, words have meanings for a reason. Changing the meaning of the word, results in changing the theological application of the narrative.

I'm not saying that one doesn't turn from sin as a RESULT of repentance; but turning from sin ISN'T "repentance" itself. You see, I only turn from sin, BECAUSE I have changed how I believe concerning Christ. The cart must come AFTER the horse, not go before it.

That is precisely why John 3:18 is worded as it is:

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John

As long as you do not believe in the name of Christ for salvation, you are in a condemned state. As soon as you change your mind and believe in the name of Christ, you are no longer condemned.

If looking to the original languages or some older language to understand the Scriptures is true, then we must see some kind of evidence of this in the Bible. For receiving God's Word is the basis of our faith (Romans 10:17). But if the faith has been altered by scholars and their Lexicons and or schools convincing people that they cannot understand the Bible without a Lexicon and or Concordance (instead of just reading and believing the Bible in their own language), then they are following what scholars are saying and not what the Bible is saying.

Also, people did not grow up speaking and writing the original languages. They have to place THEIR FAITH in LEXICONS. But my faith is in the Bible (in what it plainly says). I do not need a filter to understand it.

Again, I am not going to debate with your over words of what the Bible says because your foundation is different than mine. If there is no basis for us to agree upon, then there is no real discussion or debate, my friend. For we have to agree upon the words meaning what they plainly say based on the context and not based on what some religious elite group of men thought.

 

[Dr. Jack]

If looking to he original languages or some older language to understand the Scriptures is true, then we must see some kind of evidence of this in the Bible.

No, I'm saying that the English definition of "repent", and the Greek definition of μετανοέω must be in agreement. You are giving a meaning to "repent" that isn't in agreement with the Greek μετανοέω from which it was rendered.

Let me give you an example:

The English word "word" in Hebrews 4:12 is rendered from the Greek λογος, and is referring to the written word.

However, the English word "word" in Romans 10:17 is rendered from the Greek ρηματος, and is referring to the spoken word.

The understanding of our English must be in agreement with the meaning in the original language.

You are trying to interject a meaning upon the English "repent" baseed upon your theological view; when in fact, theological views must be based upon the meaning of the words used in the Biblical narrative.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, I'm saying that the English definition of "repent", and the Greek definition of μετανοέω must be in agreement. You are giving a meaning to "repent" that isn't in agreement with the Greek μετανοέω from which it was rendered.

Let me give you an example:

The English word "word" in Hebrews 4:12 is rendered from the Greek λογος, and is referring to the written word.

However, the English word "word" in Romans 10:17 is rendered from the Greek ρηματος, and is referring to the spoken word.

The understanding of our English must be in agreement with the meaning in the original language.

You are trying to interject a meaning upon the English "repent" baseed upon your theological view; when in fact, theological views must be based upon the meaning of the words used in the Biblical narrative.

The problem is that you don't know Biblical Hebrew and Greek. Nobody does. Folks are guessing at best. But we do know English.

Okay. One last chance at an appeal to reason using the plain English for the word "repent."

Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."​

Now, let's take away the word "repent" and replace it with the definition for your version of repentance.

"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he has changed his mind, forgive him." (Luke 17:3).​

Doesn't make sense. How would the other person know that they changed their mind? Is he a telepath?

Let's read it with my understanding on repentance.

Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he seeks forgiveness, forgive him."​

Let's look at one more.

Acts of the Apostles 8:22 says, "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you."​

Your version says this:

"Therefore change your mind of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

Do you think Peter thought that Simon was going to keep paying for the Holy Ghost? No. It was a one time act of wickedness. It makes no sense for Peter to say this.

Now let's read it with my understanding on the verse:

"Therefore seek forgiveness with the Lord of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

See how it makes more sense?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, I'm saying that the English definition of "repent", and the Greek definition of μετανοέω must be in agreement. You are giving a meaning to "repent" that isn't in agreement with the Greek μετανοέω from which it was rendered.

Let me give you an example:

The English word "word" in Hebrews 4:12 is rendered from the Greek λογος, and is referring to the written word.

However, the English word "word" in Romans 10:17 is rendered from the Greek ρηματος, and is referring to the spoken word.

The understanding of our English must be in agreement with the meaning in the original language.

You are trying to interject a meaning upon the English "repent" baseed upon your theological view; when in fact, theological views must be based upon the meaning of the words used in the Biblical narrative.

The Parable of the Prodigal Son is another one.

The two parables leading up to the Parable of the Prodigal Son deal with using the words repentance and rejoicing. But in the Parable of the Prodigal Son, we learn that the son sought forgiveness with the father and he confessed his sins to him. This was later followed by rejoicing. So "repentance" and "rejoicing" are tied in all three parables that are back to back with one another. But if I just change my mind about sin and Jesus, how does that really do anything? Paul says Godly sorrow leads to repentance. This would be what we see in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee where the tax collector beats his chest and cries out to God for mercy over his sins.

 

[createdtoworship]

You appear to be stuck in a feedback loop of believing that I hold to Works Alone Salvationism. Please stop. I believe we cannot be saved without God's grace and that we need to continue in His grace.

As for the proof that Christians are changed by the kind of gospel you promote and believe:
A person can change by believing in Jesus Christ as their Savior. This is where salvation starts, but it is not where it stops. A person can start off correctly but they can also fall away like in the Parable of the Sower where some fell away. One fell away due to not wanting to be persecuted, and another fell away due to the cares and the riches of this life.

You also do not have secret devices monitoring their thoughts, and their intentions of the heart 24/7 over the course of many years by your gospel. You really do not know their life. In your view, the Carnal Christian is saved. So I do not take this as a believer living a holy lifestyle or that teaching this leads to a holy lifestyle. You said there is good fruit or evidence or proof in changed lives. But yet you appear to ask me that I must lust after women always (Which implies that no believer can overcome such a sin - when such is not true). Paul says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in he fear of God. But the Eternal Security proponent sings a different tune.

So no. I don't believe you.
I trust the Bible in what it says 100 times over vs. your own experience.
Plus, in my experience, I have witnessed various different Eternal Security proponents preaching a double message when it comes to holy living. Their message appears to be contradictory.

"Sir if it is of works, it is no longer grace." Romans 11:6 makes you either choose grace or works, you cannot have both. If it is salvation by grace, then you must renounce salvation by works. To hold both logically incoherent.

So I will continue to treat your theology as if it is works alone (without grace), because the law of non contradiction states you cannot have two contradicting ideas both be true at the same time. And this is confirmed in Romans 11:6 that both cannot be true, God confirms it. So again you need to redefine what grace means to you. If grace is simply the opportunity that God grants a clean slate so that we can therefore save ourselves, that is not the Gospel. That is not grace. IF I bought you a ticket to the movie theater, and before you entered the door, I ripped it out of your hand, and said, I motivated you to get here, now do it yourself. That is both rude, and not free. It's not grace. So again your theology contradicts very clearly. So I hope you will understand, but I will take as many posts as necessary to refute this claim. I may not always adress everything in a post, due to repetetive argumentation, but I will try to reply to something. I just read this, and I thought of our debate...

“God won’t trade His love for our good conduct. We’re the only ones who are trying to make it a negotiation.” Live in Grace; Walk in Love

 

[Dr. Jack]

The problem is that you don't know Biblical Hebrew and Greek. Nobody does. Folks are guessing at best. But we do know English.

Okay. One last chance at an appeal to reason using the plain English for the word "repent."

Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."​

Now, let's take away the word "repent" and replace it with the definition for your version of repentance.

"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he has changed his mind, forgive him." (Luke 17:3).​

Doesn't make sense. How would the other person know that they changed their mind? Is he a telepath?

Let's read it with my understanding on repentance.

Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he seeks forgiveness, forgive him."​

Let's look at one more.

Acts of the Apostles 8:22 says, "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you."​

Your version says this:

"Therefore change your mind of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

Do you think Peter thought that Simon was going to keep paying for the Holy Ghost? No. It was a one time act of wickedness. It makes no sense for Peter to say this.

Now let's read it with my understanding on the verse:

"Therefore seek forgiveness with the Lord of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

See how it makes more sense?

You really need to study your history. The Jews have been using Hebrew, and even though it has changed over the years, they are not illiterate in their native tongue. As for Greek, 1) the country of Greek speaks Classic Greek which is but a variant of Koine Greek. 2) The Greek Orthodox Church has been using a mixture of Classic and Koine Greek, (closer to Koine Greek) throughout the centuries.

Furthermore, the mere fact that the Bible has been translated into English is proof that learned men know there both languages. God enabled this in order to translate the Scriptures. To not know both languages would be to fabricate words of Scripture out of thin air.

Your best arguments are futile, because your theological views are based on an opinion, rather than upon the words of Scripture.

If I remember correctly, you stated in one of your comments that you have been presenting your arguments for about 8 years on different forums, 1) What good is that if my previous statement is true? 2) I have been a student of the word since 1983; and a teacher of it since 1990, when I first graduated from college.

I am more than willing to continue this discussion, but you must understand that our English words are based upon the words from the original languages.

 

[Dr. Jack]

The problem is that you don't know Biblical Hebrew and Greek. Nobody does. Folks are guessing at best. But we do know English.

Okay. One last chance at an appeal to reason using the plain English for the word "repent."

Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."​

Now, let's take away the word "repent" and replace it with the definition for your version of repentance.

"Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he has changed his mind, forgive him." (Luke 17:3).​

Doesn't make sense. How would the other person know that they changed their mind? Is he a telepath?

Let's read it with my understanding on repentance.

Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he seeks forgiveness, forgive him."​

Let's look at one more.

Acts of the Apostles 8:22 says, "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you."​

Your version says this:

"Therefore change your mind of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

Do you think Peter thought that Simon was going to keep paying for the Holy Ghost? No. It was a one time act of wickedness. It makes no sense for Peter to say this.

Now let's read it with my understanding on the verse:

"Therefore seek forgiveness with the Lord of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).​

See how it makes more sense?

Repentance Jesus said the following:
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke

The Holy Spirit had Paul write the following:
7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2 Corinthians

The Holy Spirit also had Paul write the following : 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians

And … 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans

3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians

So we have the following facts:
1) We must repent, in order not to perish.
2) “godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation"
3) We are saved by the grace of God.
4) We are not to “live" in sin.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace.

1) Repentance: Repentance is a change of mind. Prior to salvation, we ‘think' we can ‘abstain’ from sin (live according to the law) to obtain salvation. God, providing evidence of Himself, allows us to change our mind to having faith in the grace of God to save us, rather than our own works of righteousness.
2) “godly sorrow": “godly sorrow is the result of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit that it is our sin that put Christ on the cross.
3) We are saved by the grace of God: Grace is when we get something we do not deserve. Our sin makes us deserve Hell; but because God loves us, He graciously saves us.
4) We are not to “live" in sin: We as Christians must understand that even if we had the ability to stop sinning, it would not erase the fact that we still deserve Hell. The fact is, sin caused us to deserve Hell prior to getting saved by grace; sin still causes us to deserve Hell after we get save.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace: When we first come to Christ, we depend upon His grace, for we are all too aware of our sinful condition. However, after receiving our salvation, (by grace), we tend to feel the need to revert back to living according to the law, in order to ‘maintain’ our salvation. How can we, by ‘obedience’ to the law, maintain that (our salvation), which we could not obtain, in that same manner? That is the question Paul is asking the Galatians: “having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” The answer is, No!
Does this give us a license to sin? This is the question of Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul is asking a rhetorical question! Think about it … we are saved by grace … and kept by grace.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's real nice, but I want to ask you tw honest questions; 1)Do you understand the use of the comma (,) in English grammar?; 2) Do you understand the preposition "for" has two meanings?

The first meaning is "in order to"; as in, "I went to the store FOR a loaf of bread.

The second meaning is "because of"; as in, I went to jail FOR stealing a loaf of bread.

Unless you believe in Baptismal regeneration, (salvation is contingent on baptism in deep water), you would understand that you get baptized BECAUSE you are already saved.

The same is true in the case of FOR the remission of sins. It isn't repentance IN ORDER TO get remission of sin; it's repentance BECAUSE I already have repentance of sin.

The word "repentance" simply means to have a change of mind.

Was God "sorry for sin" in any of the following?:

21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. 1 Chronicles

6:4 That lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches, and eat the lambs out of the flock, and the calves out of the midst of the stall;7:1 Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me; and, behold, he formed grasshoppers in the beginning of the shooting up of the latter growth; and, lo, it was the latter growth after the king's mowings.7:2 And it came to pass, that when they had made an end of eating the grass of the land, then I said, O Lord GOD, forgive, I beseech thee: by whom shall Jacob arise? for he is small.7:3 The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.7:4 Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and, behold, the Lord GOD called to contend by fire, and it devoured the great deep, and did eat up a part.7:5 Then said I, O Lord GOD, cease, I beseech thee: by whom shall Jacob arise? for he is small.7:6 The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD. Amos

3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. Jonah

Repentance means that we change our minds, or change the way we think about what we believe concerning God.

Repentance

Jesus said the following:
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke

The Holy Spirit had Paul write the following:
7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2 Corinthians

The Holy Spirit also had Paul write the following : 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians

And … 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans

3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians
So we have the following facts:
1) We must repent, in order not to perish.
2) “godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation"
3) We are saved by the grace of God.
4) We are not to “live" in sin.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace.

1) Repentance: Repentance is a change of mind. Prior to salvation, we ‘think' we can ‘abstain’ from sin (live according to the law) to obtain salvation. God, providing evidence of Himself, allows us to change our mind to having faith in the grace of God to save us, rather than our own works of righteousness.
2) “godly sorrow": “godly sorrow is the result of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit that it is our sin that put Christ on the cross.
3) We are saved by the grace of God: Grace is when we get something we do not deserve. Our sin makes us deserve Hell; but because God loves us, He graciously saves us.
4) We are not to “live" in sin: We as Christians must understand that even if we had the ability to stop sinning, it would not erase the fact that we still deserve Hell. The fact is, sin caused us to deserve Hell prior to getting saved by grace; sin still causes us to deserve Hell after we get save.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace: When we first come to Christ, we depend upon His grace, for we are all too aware of our sinful condition. However, after receiving our salvation, (by grace), we tend to feel the need to revert back to living according to the law, in order to ‘maintain’ our salvation. How can we, by ‘obedience’ to the law, maintain that (our salvation), which we could not obtain, in that same manner?

That is the question Paul is asking the Galatians: “having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” The answer is, No! Does this give us a license to sin? This is the question of Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul is asking a rhetorical question! Think about it … we are saved by grace … and kept by grace.

Repentance is not only a change of mind but also a change in our way of life. However it is used in the Bible to represent both a change of mind and or change of a course of action or both. It’s a turning away from sin and towards God. Jesus told the 7 churches in Asia in Revelations to repent or they would face consequences. Jesus’ expectations were that they not only change their mind but they also change their course of action and refrain from the sins that He was bringing to their attention. Simply changing their mind and not their actions would still result in facing the consequences He presented for their actions.

Repent

G3340

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins"Repentance (metanoia, 'change of mind') involves a turning with contrition from sin to God; the repentant sinner is in the proper condition to accept the divine forgiveness." (F. F. Bruce. The Acts of the Apostles [Greek Text Commentary], London: Tyndale, 1952, p. 97.)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Repentance Jesus said the following:
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke

The Holy Spirit had Paul write the following:
7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2 Corinthians

The Holy Spirit also had Paul write the following : 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians

And … 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans

3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians

So we have the following facts:
1) We must repent, in order not to perish.
2) “godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation"
3) We are saved by the grace of God.
4) We are not to “live" in sin.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace.

1) Repentance: Repentance is a change of mind. Prior to salvation, we ‘think' we can ‘abstain’ from sin (live according to the law) to obtain salvation. God, providing evidence of Himself, allows us to change our mind to having faith in the grace of God to save us, rather than our own works of righteousness.
2) “godly sorrow": “godly sorrow is the result of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit that it is our sin that put Christ on the cross.
3) We are saved by the grace of God: Grace is when we get something we do not deserve. Our sin makes us deserve Hell; but because God loves us, He graciously saves us.
4) We are not to “live" in sin: We as Christians must understand that even if we had the ability to stop sinning, it would not erase the fact that we still deserve Hell. The fact is, sin caused us to deserve Hell prior to getting saved by grace; sin still causes us to deserve Hell after we get save.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace: When we first come to Christ, we depend upon His grace, for we are all too aware of our sinful condition. However, after receiving our salvation, (by grace), we tend to feel the need to revert back to living according to the law, in order to ‘maintain’ our salvation. How can we, by ‘obedience’ to the law, maintain that (our salvation), which we could not obtain, in that same manner? That is the question Paul is asking the Galatians: “having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” The answer is, No!
Does this give us a license to sin? This is the question of Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul is asking a rhetorical question! Think about it … we are saved by grace … and kept by grace.

First, if what you say is true on repentance, then John the Baptist was teaching falsely. He said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and he mentioned how the axe is laid to the root of the tree. Meaning, they were going to be cut down if they do not bring forth deeds (or fruits) befitting of repentance. Examples of what John the Baptist said in Matthew 3 for fruit (or deeds) worthy of repentance is giving your second coat to the person who has none, and giving some of your meat (food) to the person has none. Jesus said a similar thing in John 15:5-6 and He essentially said that branch that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. This lines up with the Parable of the Talents where the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30). For the servant who was faithful over a little was said to enter into the joy of His Lord (Matthew 25:21).

Second, you did not offer any counter explanation on the points I made for repentance, and how your version does not make any sense. In fact, to say that your version of repentance is Belief Alone-ism or believing in Christ is not exactly accurate in light of what we see in Scripture. Repentance is different than trusting in Christ as your Savior. It is clearly a word that means "seeking forgiveness" (as I demonstrated by the verses I shown to you before). Your more detailed explanation on what repentance means only makes it worse when you try to apply that meaning to other parts of the Bible where the word "repent" appears. Again, try and replace the word with your definition for the word "repent" and the text is rendered nonsensical and has less meaning of what is taking place.

Three, none of the verses you presented actually show the word "repent" and how that fits with your definition of repentance. Your definition for repentance has to FIT THE CONTEXT or the surrounding words where the word "repent" appears. Your definition for repent does not fit or work when reading the text. It only causes confusion in what the text plainly says.

Four, 2 Corinthians 7:10 is about Paul talking about seeking forgiveness with GOD whereby they would forsake certain sins. For Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 12:20-21,

20 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Your version would say,

20 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not trusted in Jesus for his righteousness alone and not worry about sin so much of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Your definition of repentance above makes the above passage into utter nonsense and does not fit what the text plainly says. In the beginning of verse 21 Paul is hypothetically speaking that if he were to visit them again and he found them sinning, and that he would need to be humbled among them in the fact that they are still sinning the kinds of sins like fornication, etc. But that makes no sense because if they were simply trusting in the finished work of the cross and they were still sinning, Paul would not be upset that they are still sinning because they are still saved and secure in God's grace (by which God is glorified in your view).

My version would say,

20 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus by way of prayer [with a godly sorrow] of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Seeking forgiveness with the Lord (repentance) with a godly sorrow leads to upright actions (the fruits of repentance).

How does a godly sorrow even work in your view?
Your version of grace can make for an allowance for a person to sin and still be saved.
For do you not believe future sin is forgiven a person?
If so, a person can turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some level as a result of such.
No godly sorrow would be present in such a belief.
Godly sorrow is where a person is truly sorrow about their sin whereby they are truly sorry before the Lord that they sinned against Him, and that they would make good on their prayer with God and forsake such a sin and or sins. For if they do not forsake such a sin, they are not really sorry. It would be like a husband who cheats on his wife, and he tells her that he is sorry for doing so, and yet he has no intention of ever stopping or he does not take his unfaithfulness that seriously. But if this was the case, can the husband expect his wife to stay with him even if he said he could continue to cheat on her and he just paid lip service to her that he was sorry? No. He would not really be sorry unless he stopped being unfaithful to her and he was truly sorry in his heart.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Repentance Jesus said the following:
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke

The Holy Spirit had Paul write the following:
7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2 Corinthians

The Holy Spirit also had Paul write the following : 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians

And … 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans

3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians

So we have the following facts:
1) We must repent, in order not to perish.
2) “godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation"
3) We are saved by the grace of God.
4) We are not to “live" in sin.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace.

1) Repentance: Repentance is a change of mind. Prior to salvation, we ‘think' we can ‘abstain’ from sin (live according to the law) to obtain salvation. God, providing evidence of Himself, allows us to change our mind to having faith in the grace of God to save us, rather than our own works of righteousness.
2) “godly sorrow": “godly sorrow is the result of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit that it is our sin that put Christ on the cross.
3) We are saved by the grace of God: Grace is when we get something we do not deserve. Our sin makes us deserve Hell; but because God loves us, He graciously saves us.
4) We are not to “live" in sin: We as Christians must understand that even if we had the ability to stop sinning, it would not erase the fact that we still deserve Hell. The fact is, sin caused us to deserve Hell prior to getting saved by grace; sin still causes us to deserve Hell after we get save.
5) We start with grace, we continue in grace: When we first come to Christ, we depend upon His grace, for we are all too aware of our sinful condition. However, after receiving our salvation, (by grace), we tend to feel the need to revert back to living according to the law, in order to ‘maintain’ our salvation. How can we, by ‘obedience’ to the law, maintain that (our salvation), which we could not obtain, in that same manner? That is the question Paul is asking the Galatians: “having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” The answer is, No!
Does this give us a license to sin? This is the question of Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul is asking a rhetorical question! Think about it … we are saved by grace … and kept by grace.

Bless you friend but we must understand the differences between those who were seeking to be justified by works and those who seek to do works simply to serve God. Works are emphasized and encouraged throughout the scriptures and also considered necessary in order to receive eternal life. James 2:14-26 John 15:1-10, and Matthew 25:21-46 are just a few examples of this.

 

[BNR32FAN]

First, if what you say is true on repentance, then John the Baptist was teaching falsely. He said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and he mentioned how the axe is laid to the root of the tree. Meaning, they were going to be cut down if they do not bring forth deeds (or fruits) befitting of repentance. Examples of what John the Baptist said in Matthew 3 for fruit (or deeds) worthy of repentance is giving your second coat to the person who has none, and giving some of your meat (food) to the person has none. Jesus said a similar thing in John 15:5-6 and He essentially said that branch that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. This lines up with the Parable of the Talents where the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30). For the servant who was faithful over a little was said to enter into the joy of His Lord (Matthew 25:21).

Second, you did not offer any counter explanation on the points I made for repentance, and how your version does not make any sense. In fact, to say that your version of repentance is Belief Alone-ism or believing in Christ is not exactly accurate in light of what we see in Scripture. Repentance is different than trusting in Christ as your Savior. It is clearly a word that means "seeking forgiveness" (as I demonstrated by the verses I shown to you before). Your more detailed explanation on what repentance means only makes it worse when you try to apply that meaning to other parts of the Bible where the word "repent" appears. Again, try and replace the word with your definition for the word "repent" and the text is rendered nonsensical and has less meaning of what is taking place.

Three, none of the verses you presented actually show the word "repent" and how that fits with your definition of repentance. Your definition for repentance has to FIT THE CONTEXT or the surrounding words where the word "repent" appears. Your definition for repent does not fit or work when reading the text. It only causes confusion in what the text plainly says.

Four, 2 Corinthians 7:10 is about Paul talking about seeking forgiveness with GOD whereby they would forsake certain sins. For Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 12:20-21,

20 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Your version would say,

20 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not trusted in Jesus for his righteousness alone and not worry about sin so much of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Your definition of repentance above makes the above passage into utter nonsense and does not fit what the text plainly says. In the beginning of verse 21 Paul is hypothetically speaking that if he were to visit them again and he found them sinning, and that he would need to be humbled among them in the fact that they are still sinning the kinds of sins like fornication, etc. But that makes no sense because if they were simply trusting in the finished work of the cross and they were still sinning, Paul would not be upset that they are still sinning because they are still saved and secure in God's grace (by which God is glorified in your view).

My version would say,

20 "For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus by way of prayer [with a godly sorrow] of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

Seeking forgiveness with the Lord (repentance) with a godly sorrow leads to upright actions (the fruits of repentance).

How does a godly sorrow even work in your view?
Your version of grace can make for an allowance for a person to sin and still be saved.
For do you not believe future sin is forgiven a person?
If so, a person can turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some level as a result of such.
No godly sorrow would be present in such a belief.
Godly sorrow is where a person is truly sorrow about their sin whereby they are truly sorry before the Lord that they sinned against Him, and that they would make good on their prayer with God and forsake such a sin and or sins. For if they do not forsake such a sin, they are not really sorry. It would be like a husband who cheats on his wife, and he tells her that he is sorry for doing so, and yet he has no intention of ever stopping or he does not take his unfaithfulness that seriously. But if this was the case, can the husband expect his wife to stay with him even if he said he could continue to cheat on her and he just paid lip service to her that he was sorry? No. He would not really be sorry unless he stopped being unfaithful to her and he was truly sorry in his heart.

I think most people misunderstand the implications of justification, probably most likely due to the doctrine of eternal security.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bless you friend but we must understand the differences between those who were seeking to be justified by works and those who seek to do works simply to serve God. Works are emphasized and encouraged throughout the scriptures and also considered necessary in order to receive eternal life. James 2:14-26 John 15:1-10, and Matthew 25:21-46 are just a few examples of this.

Below (in my example): I believe Paul was arguing against Option #1., and he was not arguing against Option #2:

Option #1. "Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism" (that does not include God's grace through faith in Christ) vs.
Option #2. "God directed Works done through the believer (after they are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ).
​

But folks attempt to confuse the issue and say that Paul was arguing against all forms of work (even works done by God through the believer in the Sanctification process). For they do not believe Progressive Sanctification is a salvation issue. So this means a believer can be carnal (on some level) or live in sin on some level or be unfruitful for the Lord, and still be saved. They think Paul is referring to the whole salvation process of the believer; However, Paul is talking about the Justification Process, which is Initial Salvation or Ultimate Salvation (i.e. God's grace through faith). Paul is not condemning the necessity of obedience as a part of salvation (after we are saved by God's grace). Paul says that a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). The author of Hebrews essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him, and not those who disobey Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think most people misunderstand the implications of justification, probably most likely due to the doctrine of eternal security.

I selected the wrong rating by accident (Note: I am on my Ipad).
Anyways, I fixed it, and gave you an "agree" rating on this post of yours, my brother.

Hope you are well in the Lord today.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Below (in my example): I believe Paul was arguing against Option #1., and he was not arguing against Option #2:

Option #1. "Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism" (that does not include God's grace through faith in Christ) vs.
Option #2. "God directed Works done through the believer (after they are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ).
​

But folks attempt to confuse the issue and say that Paul was arguing against all forms of work (even works done by God through the believer in the Sanctification process). For they do not believe Progressive Sanctification is a salvation issue. So this means a believer can be carnal (on some level) or live in sin on some level or be unfruitful for the Lord, and still be saved. They think Paul is referring to the whole salvation process of the believer, when Paul is talking about the Justification Process, which is Initial Salvation or Ultimate Salvation (i.e. God's grace through faith). Paul is not condemning the necessity of obedience as a part of salvation (after we are saved by God's grace). Paul says that a person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). The author of Hebrews essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him, and not those who disobey Him.

Agreed

 

[BNR32FAN]

I selected the wrong rating by accident (Note: I am on my Ipad).
Anyways, I fixed it, and gave you an "agree" rating on this post of yours, my brother.

Hope you are well in the Lord today.

Amen thanks, we always have the most precious gift to be thankful for brother.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen thanks, we always have the most precious gift to be thankful for brother.

Indeed. Jesus is the gift. We cannot be saved without His grace (forgiveness), His love, His peace, and His working of good within our lives.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Eternal Security Proponents, or Non-Eternal Security Belief Alone Proponents (Free Will Baptists) believe that they give God glory by simply believing in the finished work of the cross and that sin cannot separate them from God on some level.

But Matthew 5:16 says that our good works glorify God the Father in Heaven. That is how we glorify GOD (of which they do not agree with).

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).​

Side Note:

Now, they may take this as "Hey, your teaching works salvation!" But I am actually saying that a believer first needs to receive God's grace FIRST (of which, without grace, there could be no true obedience to the Lord). We need God's grace. For if a believer stumbles into a sin on rare occasion, they do not go out and do a good work to get clean or forgiven again. They go to Jesus (1 John 2:1). They confess of sin (to Jesus) to be forgiven of sin again (1 John 1:9). For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). So it is not one or the other alone. It's not Grace alone, and it's not Works alone. Grace, and works both need to work in harmony in their proper order by GOD in a believer's life.

The issue is confusing to some because they do not understand that the Grace part of salvation through faith (the Justification Process) is without works because they are being saved by God's mercy in that moment (Ephesians 2:8-9). But after that, works and a holy life will follow God's grace; For we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10).