- Mar 13, 2004
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@gradyll
In other words, there is a huge difference between
Option #1. "Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism" (that does not include God's grace through faith in Christ) vs.
Option #2. "God directed Works done through the believer (after they are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ).
Paul was arguing against Option #1., and he was not arguing against Option #2.
Arguing against "Works" in general is to confuse the issue, and it is a common mistake many make when they read Paul (Which would sort of be like this picture below):
Many think Paul is easy to understand. But he is not. Even Peter says this of Paul's writings,
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16).
In other words, people misunderstood Paul even back during the early church years and they used his words as a license to live as they please (living in sin by doing what they want) instead of being in service to the Lord.
"And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:21).
19 "What? know ye not that... ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).
How do we glorify GOD in our body and in our spirit?
By good works.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16).
Many today think that they glorify GOD by just believing in the finished work of the cross, but 1 Corinthians 6:20 and Matthew 5:16 tell a different story.
Jesus said that the person who DOES NOT DO what He says, they are like a fool who built their house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27).
"When you say "just reach out," it sounds like your quoting the actor who played Bill Graham from the Unbroken: Path to Redemption movie. Unfortunately, the real Billy believed in Eternal Security. For I believe this to be a false doctrine. I believe Eternal Security is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. If there is one false belief that makes my blood boil the most, it is Eternal Security. To me, it is against everything that GOD and Jesus stand for. Eternal Security is not only easily disproven by Scripture in numerous ways, but it is disproven easily based on a person doing a basic morality test or check by way of real world example. Eternal Security can be disproven by the fact that there are tons of verses that talk about falling away. It can be disproven by looking at verses that use the word "if" in relation to our standing with GOD. It can be disproven by looking at the verses on how works play a part in the salvation process after we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. It is disproven by looking at those verses that say we are to continue in God's grace, continue in the faith, and continue in His goodness. It is disproven by looking at the verses that talk about how sin can separate a believer from GOD from Genesis to Revelation. So I am not even remotely interested in buying' in what our selling. To me it is like your offering stinky garbage as good food or something. Non-Eternal Security Belief Alone-ism (Free Will Baptism) is no different. Both Eternal Security and the Free Will Baptist belief justify the idea that one can sin and still be saved on some level. For you yourself have admitted that the carnal Christian is saved and you have implied that it sounds impossible that a believer can overcome certain sins like lusting after women, and they cannot help the poor, or they cannot give away a good amount of their possessions, etc. For you seem to be in disbelief that we cannot give a second coat to the poor (as if to sound like it is unreasonable or something) by your criticism of the Google document you provided to me. The problem is that it makes it appear like you are not believing what Jesus and His followers told us to do. You say it is impossible. But with GOD, all things are possible.
I was just watching a ray comfort video. And He said something I really agree with. He said that say I had a new home built and the electricians said that on tuesday the power would be ready, and wednesday came and it was not ready, then thursday came and it was still not ready. Then I doubted the validity of their message. Then eventually next week came and a note was on the door that said "power on- Fred" . And fred was the owner. Then as I walked in I switched the light switch on. See the power verified the message. It's the same with the Bible. You can talk all you want about the controversies of theology, calvinism, armenianism etc. But the validity is in the power of the gospel over sin. I don't have to debate if a whale swallowed jonah, or if lots wife was turned into a pillar of salt, or if all the animals of the earth came 2 by 2 onto noah's arc, or if Jesus truly walked on water, or fed 5000 with a sack lunch. I don't have to debate all those things because the message is verified by the power. When I see an alcoholic change His life over, after recieving Christ. That is when I know the Bible is true. When I see a prostitute leave that lifestyle and celebrate singleness waiting for marriage to her future husband, I see God's word verified. I don't need proof of the miraculous, because the power of the gospel is where the proof is at. If we saved ourselves, then it would not work. Because like the above illustrations, the alcoholic has come to an end of self. That is why he became christian, because he was broken by his sin. He realized that there is no way he can save himself, only Christ can save. So again being saved by works is utter foolishness, there is no power there. Just carnality and fleshly behaviour. Hebrews six calls it "dead works."
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