Is Presdient Bush A Racist?

[k]

is it? how much racism is ok? how much too much?

The fact is...it is NOT Racism.

what would a white man be called were he to be behind policies that uplift the white community?

I usually call him a Bush supporter!

Why is trying to disabuse centuries of slavery and racism such a horrible thing? I. Just. Do. Not. Understand.

 

[k]

When you malign someone because of their race... that would be racist.

If Rice and Powell were white, they wouldn't be called 'sell-outs'... so it is a racist remark.

Just a page or two back I called Bush a sell-out......so that theory doesn't seem to work.

 

[k]

I disagree. The instant you bring 'color' or 'race' into the subject it becomes a racial one... otherwise there is no need to bring up 'color' or 'race'.

No need to bring up race???????????

In some areas that makes sense but to actively ignore the ills of our culture directly caused by racism is to inherently ignore the goals of the US.

 

[TheReasoner]

Just a page or two back I called Bush a sell-out......so that theory doesn't seem to work.

Sheesh. Don't you know?

If a white man calls another man of another race something negative, he is a racist.
If a white man calls a white man something negative, that's cool.
If a black person calls a white man something negative, he is justified and just has "black pride". Same deal with most other races.

Ah chuck it! I don't care what color a person is. If I happen to call a black person a sellout, that is because he is a sellout. Not because he is white. If I were to negatively portray a man of any race it is because of reasons other than the color of his skin.
It is sad that any and all races are 'entitled' to racial pride and identity, but whites, should any of us be proud of our heritage we are suddenly racist. If we were to criticise a colored person, we are suddenly racist.
Give me a rest!
Racial paranoia!

 

[k]

Sheesh. Don't you know?

If a white man calls another man of another race something negative, he is a racist.
If a white man calls a white man something negative, that's cool.
If a black person calls a white man something negative, he is justified and just has "black pride". Same deal with most other races.

Ah chuck it! I don't care what color a person is. If I happen to call a black person a sellout, that is because he is a sellout. Not because he is white. If I were to negatively portray a man of any race it is because of reasons other than the color of his skin.
It is sad that any and all races are 'entitled' to racial pride and identity, but whites, should any of us be proud of our heritage we are suddenly racist. If we were to criticise a colored person, we are suddenly racist.
Give me a rest!
Racial paranoia!

It's not an accident that we've all been told/heard it's okay to tell a "White-lie."

 

[TheReasoner]

It's not an accident that we've all been told/heard it's okay to tell a "White-lie."

pff


Ah, we're not white anyway. We are more pink than white.

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

It's not an accident that we've all been told/heard it's okay to tell a "White-lie."

For thousands of years white has symbolized "innocent" (this is, by many historians, before racism really began) and is so thus an "innocent lie", as it is a lie said for good intentions.

 

[arnegrim]

No need to bring up race???????????

In some areas that makes sense but to actively ignore the ills of our culture directly caused by racism is to inherently ignore the goals of the US.

If you bring up race it becomes a racial issue.

It's really not that difficult.

If you think they are a sellout because of what they've done... FINE... just don't mention race. That includes negative racial slurs such as 'Uncle Tom' or 'Aunt Jemima'.

 

[burrow_owl]

If you bring up race it becomes a racial issue.

Let's say the KKK holds a rally, and I call it a racist rally. Did I just make it a racial issue? Or was it already about race and I just correctly noted that?

 

[arnegrim]

Let's say the KKK holds a rally, and I call it a racist rally. Did I just make it a racial issue? Or was it already about race and I just correctly noted that?

Let's not be ridiculous. The KKK is founded on racial issues.

How does that tie in at all with Bush/Condi/Powell?

 

[burrow_owl]

How about this: let's say a prominent civil rights leader is offered a lot of money to endorse a book written by a white supremecist. Let's say that this book doesn't touch on race. Wouldn't it be fair to say that the civil rights leader has sold out, even though s/he is endorsing a book that has nothing to do with race?

In other words, aren't there contexts in which it's fair - or even obvious - to bring up race even though it hasn't been explicitly raised?

 

[arnegrim]

How about this: let's say a prominent civil rights leader is offered a lot of money to endorse a book written by a white supremecist. Let's say that this book doesn't touch on race. Wouldn't it be fair to say that the civil rights leader has sold out, even though s/he is endorsing a book that has nothing to do with race?

In other words, aren't there contexts in which it's fair - or even obvious - to bring up race even though it hasn't been explicitly raised?

It depends on what the book was about. If it wasn't about 'white supremecy' then why would they be a 'sell-out'?

What does Powells or Condis race have to do with the idea that they are a 'sell-out'?

 

[burrow_owl]

If it wasn't about 'white supremecy' then why would they be a 'sell-out'?

So, if someone said that the civil rights leader was selling out his/her ideals, you'd accuse that person of "bringing race into the picture"?

What if the publishing house was one that also published a large amount of white supremacy books, such that endorsing this non-racist text would subsidize racist texts?

 

[SummerMadness]

Do you understand the difference between black as a race and black as a cultural group? Blacks were identified by their race under the law, which just homogenized and marginalized them in American culture, hence the whole notion of black identity. There is no need to have "white pride" because there are many distinct cultures within that group. And those cultures usually break down into region (e.g., Northeast, South) or country (e.g., Italian, German, Polish, French). Black culture has primarily southern roots, for obvious reasons, and "black pride"and uplifting the community should be seen in the cultural sense. It can also be seen in the racial sense because it is a group that was told it was inferior during the eras of slavery and segregation (even after).

When you ask why these concepts such as black pride come about, don't ignore history. White pride is seen as racist because why would you need to elevate a group that has been privileged in American society for all of its history? Elevating it higher would mean other groups are below you; in contrast, elevating the black community would be to have a group elevated to equal status because despite what is said on paper and in our laws, it's a group that has been held as inferior throughout American history.

However, with the increase in Caribbean and African population, black identity has certainly changed and I see a shift towards African American identity pointing its cultural roots towards the descendants of those from the South (just my view of course).

 

[k]

For thousands of years white has symbolized "innocent" (this is, by many historians, before racism really began) and is so thus an "innocent lie", as it is a lie said for good intentions.

That may be true...but Racism is a very new concept in human history as it is only about 400 years old.

Also, the "innocent lie" translation ties in very closely with the phenemenon of White Skin Privilege. White people are presumed innocent while darker skinned people are presumed guilty.

 

[k]

If you bring up race it becomes a racial issue.

It's really not that difficult.

If you think they are a sellout because of what they've done... FINE... just don't mention race. That includes negative racial slurs such as 'Uncle Tom' or 'Aunt Jemima'.

If Race is inherently part of the subject then ignoring it is being dishonest.

They are sell-outs but not primarily due to their race although it does play a part because Tokenism is still very much in place today.

I have NEVER called them those racial slurs and it would be appreciated if the implication here were to be withdrawn.

 

[k]

Do you understand the difference between black as a race and black as a cultural group? Blacks were identified by their race under the law, which just homogenized and marginalized them in American culture, hence the whole notion of black identity. There is no need to have "white pride" because there are many distinct cultures within that group. And those cultures usually break down into region (e.g., Northeast, South) or country (e.g., Italian, German, Polish, French). Black culture has primarily southern roots, for obvious reasons, and "black pride"and uplifting the community should be seen in the cultural sense. It can also be seen in the racial sense because it is a group that was told it was inferior during the eras of slavery and segregation (even after).

When you ask why these concepts such as black pride come about, don't ignore history. White pride is seen as racist because why would you need to elevate a group that has been privileged in American society for all of its history? Elevating it higher would mean other groups are below you; in contrast, elevating the black community would be to have a group elevated to equal status because despite what is said on paper and in our laws, it's a group that has been held as inferior throughout American history.

However, with the increase in Caribbean and African population, black identity has certainly changed and I see a shift towards African American identity pointing its cultural roots towards the descendants of those from the South (just my view of course).

Very very good stuff here!!!

 

[arnegrim]

If Race is inherently part of the subject then ignoring it is being dishonest.

They are sell-outs but not primarily due to their race although it does play a part because Tokenism is still very much in place today.

I have NEVER called them those racial slurs and it would be appreciated if the implication here were to be withdrawn.

I did not mean to imply that YOU used those slurs. Those slurs were used by other ignorant people trying to paint Bush as a racist.

Can you give me an example of Tokenism today?

 

[arnegrim]

It can also be seen in the racial sense because it is a group that was told it was inferior during the eras of slavery and segregation (even after).

By telling them they need government help to get by?

When you ask why these concepts such as black pride come about, don't ignore history. White pride is seen as racist because why would you need to elevate a group that has been privileged in American society for all of its history? Elevating it higher would mean other groups are below you; in contrast, elevating the black community would be to have a group elevated to equal status because despite what is said on paper and in our laws, it's a group that has been held as inferior throughout American history.

In what instance are blacks in an unequal status?