Is Once Saved Always Saved Biblical?

[Carl Emerson]

What denomination are they?

To be fair I am thinking back to the 70's when I was active in supporting evangelism in Christchurch. Cant remember the breed but they were adamant that sinning after conversion was a one way street downwards.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Sure it does.

Sir, please read it carefully.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son..."

You agreed that God knew everyone, elect and non-elect.
Yet it says here "those God foreknew he also predestined", which means that all people foreknown are predestined to be elect.
Not all people are elect - therefore not all people are foreknown. - Hence Paul is not talking about God knowing people but knowing something about them which determines whether they're elect or not.

 

[Albion]

This doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, so I'll just submit this for the reader's consideration--

From the Jamieson-Faussett-Brown Bible Commentary:

"(But) probably God's foreknowledge of His own people means His 'peculiar, gracious, complacency in them,' while His 'predestinating' or 'foreordaining' them signifies His fixed purpose, flowing from this, to 'save them and call them with an holy calling' (2Ti 1:9)."

 

[wandering misfit]

If a person takes the view that he is home free because he believes, he obviously does not have saving Faith. For an even more respected authority on that subject, consult the epistle of James.

I'm late, our Shepard always, goes after His lost sheep.

 

[wandering misfit]

OSAS is easy way salvation, brought to you by the one and only, Satan. And because folks want an easier way, OSAS will work perfectly to scam us out of our salvation here in the last days.

Don't fall for the lie.

Unfair, just plain unfair. You've alienated true believers with this trope. Perseverance of the saints overcome nonsense, even when the believer is unaware what the Spirit is working on inside.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Unfair, just plain unfair. You've alienated true believers with this trope. Perseverance of the saints overcome nonsense, even when the believer is unaware what the Spirit is working on inside.

The truth overcomes nonsense as well.

Do you believe someone who once was saved, and did good will remain saved if they choose to live an evil life?

 

[wandering misfit]

The truth overcomes nonsense as well.

Do you believe someone who once was saved, and did good will remain saved if they choose to live an evil life?

Yes. I man or woman can "claim" salvation. Those who are saved God will not release, even when struck down as an ass like that Neb Babylonian king.

 

[wandering misfit]

Mind you, I'm arguing for Perseverance of the Saints, those called.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Yes. I man or woman can "claim" salvation. Those who are saved God will not release, even when struck down as an ass like that Neb Babylonian king.

You're free to believe in Calvinism, but that doesn't make it biblical. At the beginning of this thread you find a dozen verses that refute your idea of "claiming salvation".

 

[Ceallaigh]

To be fair I am thinking back to the 70's when I was active in supporting evangelism in Christchurch. Cant remember the breed but they were adamant that sinning after conversion was a one way street downwards.

Apparently they didn't read Romans 7 or 1 Corenthians.

 

[bling]

Imagine you built a robot. You programmed it to say "Bling is the greatest, Bling is the best!" every 12 minutes.

What would the praise be worth? Nothing, because the robot didn’t choose to say that. By creating such a robot you basically compliment yourself.

Now imagine you carved a nice little figure out of wood and gave it a soul so that it’s a self-contained being with its own will and emotions. This carving might be sad sometimes that it’s lonely, it even might be angry at you at times because you don’t spend all your time with it, but when this little being appreciates you for who you are, when the carving honors you as its Creator – that is real worship, that is actually worth something!

The reason why God created something in the first place is in His honor. We are supposed to glorify God! And for that a free will is essential, it’s absolutely necessary. Free will is the only way to explain the reality we live in: why there is evil in this world, why God is "hidden", why there was a tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden (which led to the Fall), even why we live in a fallen Creation and not in paradise.

At the same time we know of God’s sovereignty, and many people see a contradiction between "we have free will" and "God is sovereign". A contradiction that is actually not there. The two concepts of "free will" and "God’s sovereignty" are in fact complementing one another.

God’s sovereignty protects our free will! Here's why:

God does not force anyone to believe in Him. God reveals Himself to people, He "draws" everyone (John 6:44), but He does not force them to actually allow Him into their life.

Some do not like it, but the devil is the second most powerful being in this universe. God gave him power in this world, and I believe the devil could tempt and deceive us to such an extent that we’re in risk of losing our faith (against our will) – if God did not protect our will! God knows exactly what’s inside our heart. He knows with absolute certainty whether we want or don’t want to follow Jesus Christ. And when God sees that we want to believe in Jesus "he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear" (1 Cor 10:13). Do you see? The devil’s the one tempting us, and God, being sovereign, does not allow him to tempt us more than our (free) will can bear!

But who are "the elect"? If God predetermined who will believe and who will reject Him – where is our free will?

A closer look at Romans 8:29-30 will help us to understand the election. It says there:

"For those God foreknew he also predestined […] and those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified".

Do you notice how it does not start with "predestined"? It starts with "foreknew"! God did not create you as someone who will accept Him but He foresaw that you will be one of those who accept Him. God’s omniscience allowed Him to know which human will believe in Jesus before He even created the earth, and those (who he foreknew) are the elect!

Again: God knew which human would choose Him by their free will (without wanting to turn away later, unlike some people I know), and, by His sovereignty, He predestined those to keep their faith to the end. The elect are foreknown, not predetermined.

Lastly allow me to clarify the following: God uses His sovereignty to protect our free will regarding accepting or rejecting God, but this does not mean that He does not influence anything else. God knows very well whether a person wants/would believe in Him, and He uses people accordingly: those who would never decide for God are used in a way that they stay unbelievers (corresponding to their free will) like the pharao (see Exodus 10:20 for example) and those who decided (or will decide) for God will be used to live to God’s glory.

Sanctification is something we cannot achieve by ourselves, just like salvation. It’s beyond our will, and here God’s sovereignty appears again: God will sanctify us and change us into the image of His Son (Romans 8:29). Our free will and God’s sovereignty go hand in hand with each other

First off, God himself did not have to go and defeat satan, but God sent another angel to defeat satan, so I do not think satan is number two in power.

Second, I do feel there is a need the sinner has for those going to hell that helps at least some willing individuals to accept God charity as charity sooner.

You might want to reconsider: “Man’s objective”. You can take any God given command from scripture and say: “This is man’s objective” and have scripture to back up that conclusion, God told us to do this.

There are two commands that all other commands are subordinate to which I would combine to say: “Love God, and secondly others, with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.” This simple statement would fit being man’s “Mission Statement”. The problem is with obtaining this Godly type Love which would enable a person to have unselfish, unconditional type Love.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

First off, God himself did not have to go and defeat satan, but God sent another angel to defeat satan, so I do not think satan is number two in power.

Second, I do feel there is a need the sinner has for those going to hell that helps at least some willing individuals to accept God charity as charity sooner.

You might want to reconsider: “Man’s objective”. You can take any God given command from scripture and say: “This is man’s objective” and have scripture to back up that conclusion, God told us to do this.

There are two commands that all other commands are subordinate to which I would combine to say: “Love God, and secondly others, with all your heart, soul, mind and energy.” This simple statement would fit being man’s “Mission Statement”. The problem is with obtaining this Godly type Love which would enable a person to have unselfish, unconditional type Love.

Only Jesus was able to defeat Satan. If you refer to Jude 1:9 regarding the angel, read it again: they disputed only, Michael didn't "defeat" Satan.

I'm not sure what God's commandments have to do with our free will or the elect?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes. I man or woman can "claim" salvation. Those who are saved God will not release, even when struck down as an ass like that Neb Babylonian king.

Ok, you say yes to the question that even if the saved choose to live in sin and do evil after being saved, they are still saved.

So tell me, since the following will show Jesus disagrees with you, who is telling the truth, you or Jesus?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

 

[lismore]

The truth overcomes nonsense as well.

Do you believe someone who once was saved, and did good will remain saved if they choose to live an evil life?

I have bad news for you, but also good news. The bad news is that EVERYONE on this forum will go on to lead an evil life. EVERYONE. There is no-one who does what is right, not even one. But the good news is that salvation does not depend on what you are going to do, it depends on what Jesus Christ has already done. God Bless

“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!"

 

[Kenny'sID]

I have bad news for you, but also good news. The bad news is that EVERYONE on this forum will go on to lead an evil life. EVERYONE. There is no-one who does what is right, not even one. But the good news is that salvation does not depend on what you are going to do, it depends on what Jesus Christ has already done. God Bless

“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!"

Read the scruptre I quoted in my last post, where jesu3s said, those who do evil will go to hell and those who do good will go to heaven, and tell me, is jes3us wrong according to your way of thinking, or are you wrong?

 

[lismore]

Read the scruptre I quoted in my last post, where jesu3s said, those who do evil will go to hell and those who do good will go to heaven, and tell me, is jes3us wrong according to your way of thinking, or are you wrong?

Hello! thank you for your reply. The weakness in your point is I think in the definition of good and evil, God's definition perhaps being somewhat different from other definitions, in the sense of righteousness and holiness. Indeed, who is 'good' but God alone? (Mark 10:18)

As you can see earlier in the passage:

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (John 5:24).

Sadly Hell will contain those who were considered by their peers to be 'moral', because no amount of human effort can generate righteousness in God's sight, toxic self-righteousness yes, real righteousness no.

God Bless

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I have bad news for you, but also good news. The bad news is that EVERYONE on this forum will go on to lead an evil life. EVERYONE. There is no-one who does what is right, not even one. But the good news is that salvation does not depend on what you are going to do, it depends on what Jesus Christ has already done. God Bless

“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!"

The word of God says in 1 John 3

"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister."

Your comment "EVERYONE on this forum will go on to lead an evil life" means that not a single person on this forum is God's child. A very dangerous statement - and a plain lie. There are people on this forum who do what is right indeed, who don't sin anymore. It says "no one who is born of God will continue to sin" and that is the truth. If you continue sinning still you should be alarmed, because God said "who does what is sinful is of the devil".

 

[lismore]

Your comment "EVERYONE on this forum will go on to lead an evil life" means that not a single person on this forum is God's child. A very dangerous statement - and a plain lie.

“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!" (Matthew 7:11)

We're all evil, we do evil things every day, every hour. That is why salvation must be by grace, not by works. The grace of our Father in Heaven, not of our own works which are as filthy rags or shriveled leaves. Self righteousness is just another form of evil.

Romans 3:23 "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard"

Romans 3:10, "As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one;"

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

God Bless

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Romans 3:23 "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard"

Romans 3:10, "As it is written: 'There is no one righteous, not even one;"

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

God Bless

Is the Word of God contradicting itself then? No. The verses you quoted are obviously about people before they received the gift of salvation. Which becomes clear when you look at the context. Same with the beginning of 1 John.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Hello! thank you for your reply. The weakness in your point is I think in the definition of good and evil, God's definition perhaps being somewhat different from other definitions, in the sense of righteousness and holiness. Indeed, who is 'good' but God alone? (Mark 10:18)

As you can see earlier in the passage:

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (John 5:24).

Sadly Hell will contain those who were considered by their peers to be 'moral', because no amount of human effort can generate righteousness in God's sight, toxic self-righteousness yes, real righteousness no.

God Bless

You are putting words in Gods mouth, you got backed into a corner so you made a beyond weak attempt to change the meaning of evil.

Evil is evil, and Jesus was clear on what happens to those who do evil. But if you want to teach that we can do evil (live an evil life) and still go to heaven, something the scripture clearly is against, that is up to you.

However, let me warrn those who seek the truth not to fall into this easy, do nothing, all talk, and no walk, salvation, as it is of the devil.