Is Observing the 7th day Sabbath a Requirement for Salvation?

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

NO, observing the sabbath is not required for salvation. The bible is extremely clear about this.

Romans 14 (WEB)

14 Now accept one who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions. 2 One man has faith to eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Don’t let him who eats despise him who doesn’t eat. Don’t let him who doesn’t eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you who judge another’s servant? To his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he will be made to stand, for God has power to make him stand.

5 One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks. He who doesn’t eat, to the Lord he doesn’t eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord. Or if we die, we die to the Lord. If therefore we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written,

“‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘to me every knee will bow.
Every tongue will confess to God.’”

12 So then each one of us will give account of himself to God.

You need to get a real Bible. That coloring book you use is FULL of falsehoods and has deleted verses. That's just a fact.

 

[corinth77777]

Welcome!

God places the Sabbath commandment in the moral law because God's Word is law - because the Sabbath is "for mankind" Mark 2:27, Isaiah 66:23, because Love for God expresses itself in worship to God - within the context of Obedience - and because the context of "God as Creator" is the basis for the Gospel in John 1:1-4 - the basis for worship in Rev 14:7, the basis for God's claims on all that we do.



Hebrews 4:9 says that there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God -- remains from when? From the time of David in Psalms 95. It was not deleted in Psalms 95 -- it is not deleted today.

in fact in the NT the Sabbath is still said to be "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 and in the NEW Earth for all eternity after the cross "ALL mankind" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" Isaiah 66:23




All obedience even "do not take God's name in vain" can be kept only by the saints, the born-again, those under the Jeremiah 31:31-33 NEW Covenant where the LAW of God is written on the heart.

"LOVE Me AND keep My commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me - KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

He is Lord of the Sabbath - it is the LORD's day. And it is HE who says "the SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the LORD (YHWH) Thy God" Ex 20

Love to God is not expressed in editing His Word -- it is expressed in obedience to His Commandments according to 1 John 5:2-3

Christ explicitly forbids editing or downsizing the Commandments of God in Mark 7:6-13

The Sabbath drew near. Jesus rested in tomb on the Sabbath and his followers rested on the Sabbath.

They brought the spices which they had prepared upon the first day of week (Sunday morning). Luke 24:1.

So Jesus observed the Sabbath, his followers observed the Sabbath. Paul preached to the gentiles on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath commandment is a part the Ten Commandments which is stored in the Ark of Covenant. These are the moral law because they instruct how God's people ought to act: love God and love thy neighbors.

The moral law can never be done away. They are the standard of conduct.

Look at the language of the 4th commandment. The Sabbath strictly commemorates the creation. There is no mention of any shadows or types of rest in Christ.

God created man and sanctified the Sabbath day even before the sin entered the world. So resting in Christ does not preclude us from keeping the sabbath.

Im not really trying to argue...trying to share...maybe what ive read...in Hebrews...how if Joshua gave them rest there would not be spoken of ....of another day.....how does this tie in....In my thinking Christ is that rest...and so...since all the moral laws are kept by being in Christ then why wouldn't the sabbath be kept that way as well.....

Im not disannualing...the sabbath..Im..hinting that the sabbath is a rest found in Christ...that has to do with...the seventh day [day ....time, age]

 

[corinth77777]

Hebrews 4:1-11-

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

How can this be refuted? It cannot. Except in an example of unbelief. IF Jesus had spoken of ANOTHER DAY, another Sabbath, He would have said so.

vs 16-
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Its not "Jesus" but if Joshua would have given them rest....

Joshua was most likely a type and figure of Christ.......

Why couldn't Joshua give them rest?...unbelief
So History repeats itself...
This time Jesus offers rest ..

And those who enter this rest cease from their own......

Jesus is eternal life....and in my thought everyday in Christ is eternal rest....

 

[corinth77777]

Im not really trying to argue...trying to share...maybe what ive read...in Hebrews...how if Joshua gave them rest there would not be spoken of ....of another day.....how does this tie in....In my thinking Christ is that rest...and so...since all the moral laws are kept by being in Christ then why wouldn't the sabbath be kept that way as well.....

Im not disannualing...the sabbath..Im..hinting that the sabbath is a rest found in Christ...that has to do with...the seventh day [day ....time, age]

This would mean that all the law is fullfilled in Christ...ceremonial, and moral....etc..
If Im wrong let the spiritual...correct me.....

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Hebrews 4:9-11-
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hi, I'm assuming you mean here.
vs 3. saysWE which believe have entered it. The Sabbath rest.
If you read Hebrews 4:1-11, it explains that IF Jesus had given them rest (the Father did), then He would told them of another day (ex Sunday, etc) , therefore enter into our rest God set aside, lest others also profane His Sabbath.

What 99% of all the argument over is- What man thinks vs what God thinks. What man made vs what God made. The same thing goes for worship. Cain's offering was refused, but it was how HE wanted to do it. Able did like the Lord asked. It's similar in the pagan day of worship. It's just not what God blessed and hallowed. Man did that. Jesus said " If ye love me, keep my commandments. AND I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever. Doing things the way WE think got us thrown out of Eden. God told them, DO NOT eat of the tree or you will surely die. The serpent said Ye shall not surely die. They're dead. There's some obedience to follow. It's His creation, His rules. We DONT have to obey Him, but He doesn't have to give life eternal. Peace be with you.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

KJV - JESUS. Joshua is also His name as is YESHUA . It's speaking of the Christ.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Most Bibles other than a KJV mislead in many areas. There's a section on " which Bible to use" here in the Adventist forum. It's really in depth and shoes ALL the error of "easy to read" Bibles. Most should be called EASY TO MISLEAD. Some are downright satanic and meant 100% to mislead. Peace

 

[corinth77777]

Hebrews 4:9-11-
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hi, I'm assuming you mean here.
vs 3. saysWE which believe have entered it. The Sabbath rest.
If you read Hebrews 4:1-11, it explains that IF Jesus had given them rest (the Father did), then He would told them of another day (ex Sunday, etc) , therefore enter into our rest God set aside, lest others also profane His Sabbath.

What 99% of all the argument over is- What man thinks vs what God thinks. What man made vs what God made. The same thing goes for worship. Cain's offering was refused, but it was how HE wanted to do it. Able did like the Lord asked. It's similar in the pagan day of worship. It's just not what God blessed and hallowed. Man did that. Jesus said " If ye love me, keep my commandments. AND I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever. Doing things the way WE think got us thrown out of Eden. God told them, DO NOT eat of the tree or you will surely die. The serpent said Ye shall not surely die. They're dead. There's some obedience to follow. It's His creation, His rules. We DONT have to obey Him, but He doesn't have to give life eternal. Peace be with you.

Not sure what...you are saying....I was only mentioning...It was Joshua...speaking of a type of Rest.......

By heeding to the words of Joshua...son of nun..I presume..

I havent studied it, But may look over it.

Point was Everything that was created....was created through Christ...It is his rest....we enter when we trust him.

This certainly has to do with obedience...What I find most interesting...Is that with every denomination that holds to a perspective...particular way they interpret scripture is that if arrogance is the head...then most likely its not correct....for where is boasting in Christ.....

I may not agree...and by it be on the other side of those kicked out of the club before ive even entered.....

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Hi, what I'm saying is the Hebrews 4 character they speak of is Jesus. Some translations use "Joshua" in place of Jesus. It's misleading. If your Bible in Hebrews 4 says Joshua, I'd recommend another translation. Some are even deliberately misleading. Is there some other place you are talking about? Please tell me if there is, but you had written Heb 4 in your response, and my quote you brought down was the same too. Cool?

There are a lot of churches leaving actual denominations and following suggestions and doctrines of a few model non-denominal churches, one in particular, who's only goal is growth. They promote lots of fast music and a sort of "celebration" atmosphere and have taken America by storm. The only thing requiring membership is the belief in Jesus. There's little scripture taught and none dealing with repentance or obedience. Growth and capital are number one. In fact, as of now, they are THE most popular church going and HUNDREDS of church leaders put away truth and attend their seminars and purchase books and videos on growth and for the members- the "feel good spirit", which ain't the Holy One, btw. They are basically trading people's souls for money. On that note, you heard about people raising Cain when they took the 10 commandments out of courthouses and schools some time back, and I ask myself- why? Folks don't believe as a whole, that we are bound by them, especially the Sabbath commandment, which says to Remember the seventh day and keep it Holy. As you can see from the ongoing discussions in the Adventist forums, it's an ongoing debate. Welcome to the area. I hope that you join in and learn along with us, because that part never ends for anyone as we try to grow closer to Jesus. Peace

 

[corinth77777]

But to add....to a couple of things...that I may not agree with.

First..in the statement if you love obey my command.....

Is that how its written
Or
If you love me you will obey my commands

Second, it was Joshua.....
Hebrews was speaking of.

Rather, I Don't know, it was speaking of a temporal rest from enemies, as opposed to eternal or spiritual one.....we still know....another day was spoken to enter the rest of Christ...

Point being...He rested from all his work...from days of creation...and we enter his rest from ....
For everything that was made was made by him and for him

Hi, what I'm saying is the Hebrews 4 character they speak of is Jesus. Some translations use "Joshua" in place of Jesus. It's misleading. If your Bible in Hebrews 4 says Joshua, I'd recommend another translation. Some are even deliberately misleading. Is there some other place you are talking about? Please tell me if there is, but you had written Heb 4 in your response, and my quote you brought down was the same too. Cool?

There are a lot of churches leaving actual denominations and following suggestions and doctrines of a few model non-denominal churches, one in particular, who's only goal is growth. They promote lots of fast music and a sort of "celebration" atmosphere and have taken America by storm. The only thing requiring membership is the belief in Jesus. There's little scripture taught and none dealing with repentance or obedience. Growth and capital are number one. In fact, as of now, they are THE most popular church going and HUNDREDS of church leaders put away truth and attend their seminars and purchase books and videos on growth and for the members- the "feel good spirit", which ain't the Holy One, btw. They are basically trading people's souls for money. On that note, you heard about people raising Cain when they took the 10 commandments out of courthouses and schools some time back, and I ask myself- why? Folks don't believe as a whole, that we are bound by them, especially the Sabbath commandment, which says to Remember the seventh day and keep it Holy. As you can see from the ongoing discussions in the Adventist forums, it's an ongoing debate. Welcome to the area. I hope that you join in and learn along with us, because that part never ends for anyone as we try to grow closer to Jesus. Peace

Im about 95 percent in belief its speaking of Joshua/Josue...in William Tyndale Version..yes I was speaking of Hebrews 4.
For its talking about the promise land and gospel....and Joshua came after Moses.....

Today...we dont..keep the ten commandments by trying to keep them...we uphold or establish the law through/by faith in the faith of Christ. Laws cant be obeyed from the flesh...because it was proven the flesh was weak....but God's law is upheld through the spirit...."if by the spirit you put away the deeds of the flesh you shall live" And while repentance and obedience are necessary....even obedience comes by love....through a cleansed heart ...out of what God has done.....and works in us....A desire to be obedient because of his Love...established in our hearts.....
Thats why I except the translation, "if you love me you will obey my commandments"..

Obedience is the outcome of love..
Not a to do list....We have a Faith .....that is fruitful....a faith by definition where obeying from the heart is key....to life from above..

 

[BobRyan]

Im not really trying to argue...trying to share...maybe what ive read...in Hebrews...how if Joshua gave them rest there would not be spoken of ....of another day.....how does this tie in....In my thinking Christ is that rest...and so...since all the moral laws are kept by being in Christ then why wouldn't the sabbath be kept that way as well.....

We are to honor father and mother - "for real" -- according to Ephesians 6:2 - because that 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" in the still-valid unit of Ten according to Paul in that letter to the Ephesians.

We are to "not take God's name in vain" -- "for real" - literally not do it - according to Exodus 20:7. And that is still true to this very day.

Being a New Covenant Christian with the LAW of God written on the heart - as in Jer 31:31-33 - does not mean that we find some new and creative way to sidestep some part of God's Word. -- as I am sure we both agree.

Im..hinting that the sabbath is a rest found in Christ...that has to do with...the seventh day [day ....time, age]

Notice what Jesus said --- the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13

Notice how he presents the idea of religious creative features designed to sidestep even to the slightest degree - one of God's Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

 

[seeking633]

This is such a contentious topic and I know that I've struggled with it. Someone may have mentioned this but it had just come to mind. When Jesus spoke of the commandments, he spoke of them in a new spiritual context. That is;

If a married person even LOOKS at someone of the opposite sex the wrong way, they're committing adultery.
OR
If you hate your brother, you've murdered him

He may have covered several others but you get the picture.

And then to top it off, he gave us two NEW commandments which we all know actually summarizes the 10.

In short, he was raising the 10 commandments to a higher level in a newer relationship with both our brethren and God as Father.

Is this not what we should be focusing on?

 

[corinth77777]

We are to honor father and mother - "for real" -- according to Ephesians 6:2 - because that 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" in the still-valid unit of Ten according to Paul in that letter to the Ephesians.

We are to "not take God's name in vain" -- "for real" - literally not do it - according to Exodus 20:7. And that is still true to this very day.

Being a New Covenant Christian with the LAW of God written on the heart - as in Jer 31:31-33 - does not mean that we find some new and creative way to sidestep some part of God's Word. -- as I am sure we both agree.





Notice what Jesus said --- the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13

Notice how he presents the idea of religious creative features designed to sidestep even to the slightest degree - one of God's Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

Hi, I see your concern...but my heart does not convict me on this subject...and God knows my heart...
Nor do I believe...because...the 7th day He rested....and Hebrews states we enter his Rest when we cease from our works.....am I sidestepping any commands....rather maybe bringing to the table another way to see the meaning....Rather honoring mother or father....etc...
We still do not honor them from the flesh but by the spirit....Everything done is done through love....

 

[seeking633]

Hi, I see your concern...but my heart does not convict me on this subject...and God knows my heart...
Nor do I believe...because...the 7th day He rested....and Hebrews states we enter his Rest when we cease from our works.....am I sidestepping any commands....rather maybe bringing to the table another way to see the meaning....Rather honoring mother or father....etc...
We still do not honor them from the flesh but by the spirit....Everything done is done through love....

What he said.

 

[corinth77777]

This is such a contentious topic and I know that I've struggled with it. Someone may have mentioned this but it had just come to mind. When Jesus spoke of the commandments, he spoke of them in a new spiritual context. That is;

If a married person even LOOKS at someone of the opposite sex the wrong way, they're committing adultery.
OR
If you hate your brother, you've murdered him

He may have covered several others but you get the picture.

And then to top it off, he gave us two NEW commandments which we all know actually summarizes the 10.

In short, he was raising the 10 commandments to a higher level in a newer relationship with both our brethren and God as Father.

Is this not what we should be focusing on?

Yes...exactly
Faith working through love

 

[corinth77777]

Hi, I see your concern...but my heart does not convict me on this subject...and God knows my heart...
Nor do I believe...because...the 7th day He rested....and Hebrews states we enter his Rest when we cease from our works.....am I sidestepping any commands....rather maybe bringing to the table another way to see the meaning....Rather honoring mother or father....etc...
We still do not honor them from the flesh but by the spirit....Everything done is done through love....

If we uphold the law through faith...and the sabbath is part of the law we uphold the law through faith as well.

What meanest thou...I dont believe you try to keep anything...[especially by the flesh]
I believe we become the type of people that will naturally behave like Christ as we yield to the spirit He has given those who trust him after they believe..
That's why he says first make the inside of the cup clean and then the outside will be clean as well........

 

[BobRyan]

This is such a contentious topic and I know that I've struggled with it. Someone may have mentioned this but it had just come to mind. When Jesus spoke of the commandments, he spoke of them in a new spiritual context. That is;

If a married person even LOOKS at someone of the opposite sex the wrong way, they're committing adultery.
OR
If you hate your brother, you've murdered him

True - instead of reducing the requirement he always expanded it so that it includes the literal observance AND it includes even the intent of the heart.

So then applying that the "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God" it would say "not merely rest, not merely worship on that seventh day - but a heart and mind that is fully born again and a child of God who loves this day of worship" ... It is the commandment - AND the motivation and intent of the heart as well. Not just the outward conformity.

 

[BobRyan]

Im not really trying to argue...trying to share...maybe what ive read...in Hebrews...how if Joshua gave them rest there would not be spoken of ....of another day.....how does this tie in....In my thinking Christ is that rest...and so...since all the moral laws are kept by being in Christ then why wouldn't the sabbath be kept that way as well.....

We are to honor father and mother - "for real" -- according to Ephesians 6:2 - because that 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" in the still-valid unit of Ten according to Paul in that letter to the Ephesians.

We are to "not take God's name in vain" -- "for real" - literally not do it - according to Exodus 20:7. And that is still true to this very day.

Being a New Covenant Christian with the LAW of God written on the heart - as in Jer 31:31-33 - does not mean that we find some new and creative way to sidestep some part of God's Word. -- as I am sure we both agree.

Im..hinting that the sabbath is a rest found in Christ...that has to do with...the seventh day [day ....time, age]

Notice what Jesus said --- the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13

Notice how he presents the idea of religious creative features designed to sidestep even to the slightest degree - one of God's Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments

Hi, I see your concern...but my heart does not convict me on this subject...and God knows my heart...

You have free will ... you can choose as you please.

 

[seeking633]

True - instead of reducing the requirement he always expanded it so that it includes the literal observance AND it includes even the intent of the heart.

So then applying that the "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God" it would say "not merely rest, not merely worship on that seventh day - but a heart and mind that is fully born again and a child of God who loves this day of worship" ... It is the commandment - AND the motivation and intent of the heart as well. Not just the outward conformity.

Ah and there it is. You can wrestle with this all you want but if it's not done in the true spirit of the occasion..as it were...then it counts for nothing.

 

[BobRyan]

Ah and there it is. You can wrestle with this all you want but if it's not done in the true spirit of the occasion..as it were...then it counts for nothing.

True and that is the same with "do not take God's name in vain" and true also with pretty much everything -- even "honor thy father and mother".