Is Observing the 7th day Sabbath a Requirement for Salvation?

[Soyeong]

When the Apostles gathered and broke bread on the first day of the week, who so many claim was the first Lords day, it's because they were scared to death. They broke bread most days somewhere, usually in hiding.

The issue is that for Jews the first of the week began Saturday at sundown. They were likely meeting for a Havdalah service at the closing of the Sabbath, so Paul spoke from evening until midnight, not from morning until midnight, then left to travel on Sunday.

 

[BobRyan]

sabbathkeeperand wife,

2. It is true they were in the jewish synagogues on the saturday sabbath because everyday was a sabbath to the new covenant believer.

Again you simply "quote you" as your text when making stuff up.

Why not stick with the Bible?

3. If all of God's commandments are forever is an open ended statement and is not true in the context of the church because all the jewish laws are not kept by the church. There were 613 laws of the Mosaic law and another 1200 or more statutes and commandments to be kept that are not necessarily kept by the church for we were never under that law to begin with. In all due respect, the sabbath was a part of the ten commandments but is the only one that is not a moral law

Again -- you are "making stuff up" and merely "quote you" as the source text for it.

Why keep doing that???

4. The ten commandments were the law of Moses that we were never under.

hint: try more Bible for example Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother - for this is the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN.

Your practice of liberally "quoting you" as your source text leaves you at odds with the Bible - and at odds with your own pro-sunday scholars when it comes to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" the "Augsburg Confession" the RCC itself - they all know not to go down those blind alleys.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Didn't Cain do it his own way?

Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of
hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Is.5:18-24

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Thes. 2:3-12
He ain't talking about Islam, folks ! He's not talking about athiests. He's talking about the Christian church in all its vanity and lawlessness.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

. The ten commandments were the law of Moses that we were never under. Does this mean moral laws or even the sabbath and honoring your father and mother are not to be obeyed?

The Ten Commandments are the Law of God, not Moses. Moses wrote the ordinances, by hand, that were " nailed to the cross" as the book said. The one that starts with Remember has been forgotten, as has the one with the deadly wound.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

jerry kelso said: ↑
sabbathkeeperand wife,

2. It is true they were in the jewish synagogues on the saturday sabbath because everyday was a sabbath to the new covenant believer.

A Sabbath is a rest, made holy and sanctified by God, in fashion after the six days He worked, then rested on the seventh. Hallowing everyday as a Sabbath belittles and makes void what God sanctified . The Apostles kept it. It's not just Rome either. Even the fellow , Edward Hiscox, writer of the Baptist manual says the Sunday sabbath has no scriptural grounds. She has many daughters.

 

[Dave-W]

2. It is true they were in the jewish synagogues on the saturday sabbath because everyday was a sabbath to the new covenant believer.

Not sure how that works since one cannot be gainfully employed on the Sabbath. So all New Covenant believers were unemployed?

 

[jerry kelso]

Not sure how that works since one cannot be gainfully employed on the Sabbath. So all New Covenant believers were unemployed?

davew-ohev,

1. The early church was mostly jewish and Paul and the other apostles were in the synagogues.
Gentiles didn't start to fully come into the big picture until after Peter's vision which was 8-10 years later and more so in Paul's gentile ministry after Peter's vision when the jews wouldn't listen to him.

2. Paul said he became all things to all men to win them to Christ. Also Peter and the rest of the apostles were against circumcision physically to be saved when the law keeping leaders thought it ought to be instead of the spiritual circumcision of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and yet they still preached in the synagogues.
Peter said in Acts that the law was a yoke of bondage for them and their fathers and they wouldn't put that on the gentiles.

3. Gradual revelation shows how revelation of what was for the old covenant and the new covenant and their differences the longer the church went on and due to the preaching of Peter and Paul and the other apostles etc.

4. So your whole basis is new covenant believing gentiles keeping the old covenant law strictly to Moses ethic when that was not in effect for the gentile. Even the jew was not bound to the Mosaic law only to the new covenant. Now they did perform things of their culture because they were jews and the law was forever for the jews but not under the Mosaic ethic but the new covenant ethic. So for the jews in the early church and being a jew is why they keep the sabbath on saturday only because of the their culture of what the Torah said. The gentiles were never under this law.
The gentiles could be gainfully employed when they kept the sabbath and more after the council because the judaizers were always trying to get all the new covenant jews and the new covenant gentiles to succumb to old testament requirements.

5. Even if a jew performed all the 613 laws and more statutes commandments they did it because of culture but not for righteousness before God otherwise the new covenant would not have taken the place of the old and would not have been built on better promises. It would of just been the exceptions made of the sacrificial system basically.

6. The Mosaic law as a whole was abolished and this is why the veil was over them and still is as a nation because they could not see it's glory of it going away. This doesn't mean it wasn't glorious for it was but it had weaknesses even though it was holy and good and yet full of wrath.

7. To keep the sabbath for those in the church today is not scriptural and it is a legalistic vice which is why God doesn't want that. It is not about merely keeping God's law that he commands. There are plenty of those that are absolutes.

8. For example, we are saved by grace and not works to merit. We are cleansed by the blood of Christ and no other sacrifice. We are to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and not the circumcision of the law like the old covenant. We are to uphold and perform the moral aspect of the 10 commandments for we are not to sin but not because we are to be subdued by the law of do's and don'ts because it is not our nature. Paul said in

9. Timothy the civil law of the Mosaic law is now for the wicked sinners and those who are of that nature.
So the point is that the law of Moses being abolished has to be understood in the context of being one whole unit being done away with to make way for the new covenant with better promises.

10. The moral laws are in every age but in different contexts. What I just mentioned has nothing to with legalism but keeping God's requirement pertaining to his character and holiness.

11. There is nothing wrong with keeping the sabbath, but on one specific day is being legalistically contentious even if the motive is pure in one believing and saying that they just want to do God's commandment. God says in the new covenant forsake not the assembly of yourselves but he didn't specific only one day. There has to be an understanding of the two different ages of the Mosaic law and the jewish nation past and the new covenant church age present. In the millennial reign the sabbath will go back to the jewish sabbath it appears because the jews will rule at the head of the nations and this is their earthly calling and that is a different age and a different administration. Jerry kelso

 

[BobRyan]

New Testament Gentiles worship in the Synagogues - Acts 13:42-44, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:1-5.

Old Testament Gentiles blessed for keeping Sabbath - Isaiah 56:2-8.

ALL mankind keeping Sabbath - Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity.

 

[jerry kelso]

Again you simply "quote you" as your text when making stuff up.

Why not stick with the Bible?



Again -- you are "making stuff up" and merely "quote you" as the source text for it.

Why keep doing that???




hint: try more Bible for example Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother - for this is the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN.

Your practice of liberally "quoting you" as your source text leaves you at odds with the Bible - and at odds with your own pro-sunday scholars when it comes to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" the "Augsburg Confession" the RCC itself - they all know not to go down those blind alleys.

bobryan,

1. I am not making up things you just misunderstand them. Ephesians 6:2 was in the old covenant and I don't deny that and it is in the new.
This is a commandment that has nothing to do with contentions of legalism but keeping the sabbath on a specific day does. The new covenant says forsake not the assembly of yourselves but not on any certain day and the gentiles worshipped on sunday.

2. The truth is you are sowed into you church doctrine and not what the new covenant really says.
The law of Moses was done away with at Calvary as one whole unit for a reason and that is what you fail to realize.
There are principles from the old covenant law that are in the new such as the moral laws like adultery but we do not get stoned for them today like in the old covenant of Moses. The sabbath is not a moral law but it was given to the jews as not only the creation sabbath example but also in reference to the Red Sea deliverance.
The church age is different and is separate from the Jewish age of the Mosaic law. Just like a new will drawn up can contain same things the same way or same things in a slightly different context or not at all that was contained in the old will. The new will can also have brand new things that were never in the old will. In both cases the new will is not the old will and the old will is not the new will. So I have said nothing wrong scripturally concerning the proper contexts of which you don't seem to understand. Keep studying. Jerry Kelso

 

[BobRyan]

sabbathkeeperand wife,

2. It is true they were in the jewish synagogues on the saturday sabbath because everyday was a sabbath to the new covenant believer.

Again you simply "quote you" as your text when making stuff up.

Why not stick with the Bible?

3. If all of God's commandments are forever is an open ended statement and is not true in the context of the church because all the jewish laws are not kept by the church. There were 613 laws of the Mosaic law and another 1200 or more statutes and commandments to be kept that are not necessarily kept by the church for we were never under that law to begin with. In all due respect, the sabbath was a part of the ten commandments but is the only one that is not a moral law

Again -- you are "making stuff up" and merely "quote you" as the source text for it.

Why keep doing that???

4. The ten commandments were the law of Moses that we were never under.

hint: try more Bible for example Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother - for this is the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN.

Your practice of liberally "quoting you" as your source text leaves you at odds with the Bible - and at odds with your own pro-sunday scholars when it comes to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" the "Augsburg Confession" the RCC itself - they all know not to go down those blind alleys.

bobryan,

1. I am not making up things you just misunderstand them. Ephesians 6:2 was in the old covenant and I don't deny that and it is in the new.

So then how do you explain what Paul said - to get it to fit our preferences?

This is a commandment that has nothing to do with contentions of legalism

Nobody is arguing for legalism.

 

[jerry kelso]

New Testament Gentiles worship in the Synagogues - Acts 13:42-44, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:1-5.

Old Testament Gentiles blessed for keeping Sabbath - Isaiah 56:2-8.

ALL mankind keeping Sabbath - Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity.

bobryryan,

1. I don't disagree with those scriptures and mostly there were jewish synagogues in that day and that was when the gentiles could get in.

2. Paul and the apostles didn't believe the gentiles had to be circumcised for salvation but the leaders did and yet they preached the death, burial and resurrection in those same synagogues.
Paul said he was all things to all men especially the jews and when he purified with them in Acts 21 he did it for a specific reason and it wasn't cause he thought he had to do it and he said the gentiles were under that law.

3. Your line of reasoning is old covenant law keeping and not merely about doing God's commandments because you have to give a judgement with it at the same time though probably not as specific as they did.

4. Do you keep the sabbath according to the jews completely like a jew? Because you should but I know that you would only revert back to the creation sabbath and there is no where in the context of the new covenant that says we havto keep the sabbath on saturday only. It is a deducing of the creation sabbath connected to the jewish sabbath.

5. The jewish sabbath has many requirements to meet so you cannot say that you do the jewish sabbath.
There is nowhere in the new covenant that it says to keep the creation sabbath day only.
Jesus is Lord of the sabbath and the cross and resurrection was about freedom in him and serving him without trying to regulate and put judgement on other christians. You know this is true and that is why you have to make it a moral law when it is not because one can do that and not lose their salvation over it and it is not in the works of the flesh as a violation as a judgement either. Read your bible in context. Jerry kelso

 

[BobRyan]

2. Paul and the apostles didn't believe the gentiles had to be circumcised for salvation but the leaders did

While it is true that Paul does not believe that - nor did James or Peter or any Apostle teach that... yet there was some sort of small faction in the early Christian church that did believe it.

But I do not agree with those folks that clam that Paul was a liar each time he affirms some part of the Bible that they reject.

My line of reasoning is Jer 31:31-33 Word of Christ New Covenant law of God - keeping

Paul goes into a great deal of detail about those who claim to remain at war with the Law of God - Romans 8:4-9

 

[jerry kelso]

Again you simply "quote you" as your text when making stuff up.

Why not stick with the Bible?



Again -- you are "making stuff up" and merely "quote you" as the source text for it.

Why keep doing that???




hint: try more Bible for example Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother - for this is the first COMMANDMENT with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN.

Your practice of liberally "quoting you" as your source text leaves you at odds with the Bible - and at odds with your own pro-sunday scholars when it comes to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" the "Augsburg Confession" the RCC itself - they all know not to go down those blind alleys.



So then how do you explain what Paul said - to get it to fit our preferences?



Nobody is arguing for legalism.

bobryan,

1. I guess the context of the will just went past you.
There are open ended statements that are general and there are statements with specific contexts.
Those gentiles go to jewish synagogues on saturday in the early church because they were predominantly jews.
The gentiles later on historically in Paul's day when the revelation grew and even in the days of Constantine who made the christian religion mostly official celebrated sabbath on sunday.
Gentiles were not under the jewish sabbath and they could still worship on saturday with them and worship on sunday or any other day at the same time according to Paul's teachings.
Even man true messianic jewish believers who are jews believe they can celebrate on Sunday only or on Saturday only or both or any other day. Quit being so legalistic. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

While it is true that Paul does not believe that - nor did James or Peter or any Apostle teach that... yet there was some sort of small faction in the early Christian church that did believe it.

But I do not agree with those folks that clam that Paul was a liar each time he affirms some part of the Bible that they reject.

My line of reasoning is Jer 31:31-33 Word of Christ New Covenant law of God - keeping

Paul goes into a great deal of detail about those who claim to remain at war with the Law of God - Romans 8:4-9

bobryan,

1.The apostles didn't believe in physical circumcision to be saved. That wasn't really true in the old covenant except for the fact that they had to physically keep all the commandments of the Torah.

2. Paul always told jews where they erred about the Mosaic law and what was valid for the church.

3. Jeremiah 31:31 was given only to the jews and by believing in the Messiah they would receive the new covenant and he would forgive their sins and put his laws into their mind and hearts and no one would have to teach them. This has not happened yet for the jewish nation because of their rejection of Jesus and 70 A.D. was their punishment and they are still backslidden and out of covenant with God today.
This is separate from the context of the church and did not disannull or prevent the new covenant from happening as Paul said to the Galatians. The Mosaic had to be set aside for a new covenant with better promises.The Mosaic Covenant is the old Covenant of the Torah which is the first 5 books of the old testament.
The new covenant for both the jew and the gentile of the church age is not the same as the Mosaic covenant.
Even in the millennial kingdom with the jews as the head of the nations through their earthly calling of the Davidic covenant will have many of the same things under the old covenant but will still not be the old covenant.

4. There is a thin line between holiness and legalism because of the spiritual aspect. In the full context they are at opposite ends of the polar. Being faithful pleases God and we are to be holy as he is holy. Do you think God is holy only on saturdays? Yes I believe in keeping God's commandments according to the new covenant and his holiness and being faithful but the sabbath being only one particular day is not in the new covenant.
Paul made it clear he was talking about the law of Moses in its context and the traditions of men in Colossian.

5. He specified the sabbath days and holy days etc. and also said they were a type in the future. Why? Because it was irrelevant in the church age because it would be contentious in this age and it is. It will be in the millennial kingdom because of Israel's earthly calling through the Davidic covenant. There will be a civil law also with judgements because all sin and rebellion must be put down even though it will be a world of peace over all. God will rule with a rod of Iron.

6. It is a sad day when contention is brought because of demands of one day over another. That is not the design and purpose of the new covenant for the church age and this has to be understood otherwise it becomes legalistic no matter how pure your motive may be.

7. If you want to celebrate saturday only that is fine that don't bother me. Just for the fact that sdo have such condemnation and judgement for those who don't do the same thing is a legalistic attitude and performance, even though they may have a pure attitude.

8. Even though I believe UES is not scriptural in the guise of OSAS and I believe that it is dangerouse for some christians who fall to its legalistic and carnal tendencies I don't indict their christian lives and send them to hell over it. I have friends that are great christian law keepers and live better than some who don't believe in that doctrine at all. I'll stop here for now because I have to go home. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Thes. 2:3-12
He ain't talking about Islam, folks ! He's not talking about athiests. He's talking about the Christian church in all its vanity and lawlessness.

sabbathkeeper@wife,

1. You are taking scriptures that have nothing to do with the sabbath being in the new covenant on saturday only and saying and making it a reason why people will fall away.
Paul never got on people after he got saved for not keeping the sabbath on saturday.
SDO on saturdays is contention and is cast as condemnation on people who don't believe that way and makes them judge and jury when it is not scriptural in the new covenant. Learn proper context.

2. Every true christian including myself wants to do God's commandments but this is legalism and has no merit to the proper context of scripture in the new covenant.
If your preference is saturday then fine because I have no problem with it at all because every day is the sabbath for the Lord is the sabbath and he is not trying to regulate us to death on one day only.

3. I used to travel and I was in church more than the average bear and even growing up so did that mean I was a superior christian because I kept more sabbath days than many others or I was more holy? The jews had to keep the sabbath to keep it holy. Is there only one day that we can go on so it will be holy? Keeping it holy meant being faithful. So does it mean we can't make another day holy if we assemble ourselves?

4. The death, burial, and resurrection was a new day and a new sabbath and it was on sunday according to jewish history and you are going to argue to keep the same day before the most important sabbath of history or the future. That is up to you and between you and God. Jerry kelso

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Hi Jerry, on/off topic, still reading but don't want to forget because that- I accel in, the abbreviations you use, OSAS, UES, and the others, sorry, but I don't know what they mean(LOL, any of them). My ignorance,of course, but when I tell y'all I wasn't raised in or around churches, think more along the lines of: in a cave. If these are common abbreviations, perhaps there is a key somewhere for dummies .Sorry, and thanks again.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Jerry,
Where does it say that Sunday was a new Sabbath? Paul didn't have to get onto people about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was kept for a hundred or two years after Christ and the new converts knew it. We all Love God everyday, but that still doesn't make everyday a Sabbath. That would take all the special-ness out of it, like they've pretty much done; and when you were talking about context, it's very much in context. The whole man of sin thing, the Sabbath, changing God's laws, trampling the rest, standing in the temple calling ones self God- it's all Rome, my friend. Peace be with you.

 

[BobRyan]

2. Paul and the apostles didn't believe the gentiles had to be circumcised for salvation but the leaders did

While it is true that Paul does not believe that - nor did James or Peter or any Apostle teach that... yet there was some sort of small faction in the early Christian church that did believe it.

But I do not agree with those folks that clam that Paul was a liar each time he affirms some part of the Bible that they reject.

My line of reasoning is Jer 31:31-33 Word of Christ New Covenant law of God - keeping

Paul goes into a great deal of detail about those who claim to remain at war with the Law of God - Romans 8:4-9

bobryan,

1.The apostles didn't believe in physical circumcision to be saved.

True -- but there is only so many times that we can post agreement on that point - before we move on to the next point.

Speaking of the NEW Covenant - as we see it in Jer 31:31-33

3. Jeremiah 31:31 was given only to the jews

Until you read Hebrews 8:6-10 where once again Jeremiah 31:31-33 is quoted - verbatim and is applied to all Christians.

The Mosaic had to be set aside for a new covenant with better promises.

Not according to the actual Bible - see Romans 3:31 ( <-- click here)

Yes I believe in keeping God's commandments according to the new covenant and his holiness and being faithful but the sabbath being only one particular day is not in the new covenant.

Not according to Jeremiah 31:31-33 - and we both know it.

Exegesis matters.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Jerry, on/off topic, still reading but don't want to forget because that- I accel in, the abbreviations you use, OSAS, UES, and the others, sorry, but I don't know what they mean(LOL, any of them). My ignorance,of course, but when I tell y'all I wasn't raised in or around churches, think more along the lines of: in a cave. If these are common abbreviations, perhaps there is a key somewhere for dummies .Sorry, and thanks again.

OSAS is once-saved-always-saved