Is Obedience to God Necessary?

[GDL]

Preaching the necessity of works to either "produce" or "maintain" salvation is indeed heresy. Man is saved by grace through faith and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

How work about to "accomplish" salvation with fear & trembling? Is this also "heresy"? (Philippians 2 12-13)

 

[Danthemailman]

How work about to "accomplish" salvation with fear & trembling? Is this also "heresy"? (Philippians 2 12-13)

To "work out" your salvation with fear and trembling is not heresy because Paul is not saying to work "for" your salvation, so salvation by works is not being taught here. To "work out" your salvation is to progress to the finish or completion in spiritual growth and maturity. This process is what the Bible calls "ongoing sanctification." When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not in order to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

 

[GDL]

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

And "being saved" is the process of "working to accomplish" salvation, which is what the word/command "katergazomai" in Philippians 2:12 means. It actually emphasizes the "accomplishment" by our collaborative work with God.

So, what happens if we don't obey this command to work with God to accomplish our salvation? If salvation is in 3 tenses, then what happens if we don't do as commanded in the 2nd tense? Are we "saved" anyway? If we don't obey His commands, do we truly believe in Him?

If we don't work to maintain our body or the land we've been given/obtained, what happens to them?

 

[EpicScore]

Worship in what respect?

In John 4 where Jesus repeats/emphasizes "worship" several times in a few verses, the word actually means to bow in obeisance, which denotes respect and submission to authority, which is correlated to obedience, which is thus correlated to faith. Jesus instructed that this is what our Father is seeking.

In other verses, "worship" is a translation of a word that means to serve.

"Worship" is another word that just needs to be explained and not to be considered as something everybody understands because their church has a praise & worship (music & raise your hands in the air) leader.

In the context of the entire quote, the last phrase is wrong. It's correlated to the opening statement. Our obedience is going to get us to heaven, because faith and obedience are essentially 2 sides of the same coin in Scripture. And obedience is essentially the "worship" Jesus is speaking of in John 4 and thus interconnected with faith. And not only is faith in Jesus Christ commanded by God, but our entire life as Christians is structured under hundreds of NT commands to be obeyed in continuing faith.

This entire quote is essentially passing on the falsehood that obedience is a work. It's a part of the so-called gospel of those who immediately condemn all others as "works salvation" and a lack of recognizing and understanding God's grace.

Indeed, and you can absolutely obey someone without actually having respect or submission towards that person, but simply because doing the command is more convenient than facing the consequences of disobeying. Jesus did acknowledge, and even applaud, the Pharisees' strict adherence to the letters of the law, but condemns them for neglecting what really matters, i.e. justice, mercy and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23). The latter things are abstract concepts that can't be articulated with written regulation, and is impossible to draw out from one's life unless they are already in Christ. Nowhere did I mention or imply that worship refers to playing music and singing songs.

It seems that many people are againts the quote for its implied endorsement for License/Antinomianism ... but I really don't think it's the case, especially since the second sentence elaborates that "it" (obedience) is a fruit of salvation, not the cause of it.

Anyway, we both acknowledge that "faith" and "works" are both essential, and inseparable, parts of the Salvation package. We just disagree on how we read that particular anonymous comment about salvation. You think it speaks against the need for Christians to obey the Bible, I don't think it does.

 

[Danthemailman]

And "being saved" is the process of "working to accomplish" salvation, which is what the word/command "katergazomai" in Philippians 2:12 means. It actually emphasizes the "accomplishment" by our collaborative work with God.

So, what happens if we don't obey this command to work with God to accomplish our salvation? If salvation is in 3 tenses, then what happens if we don't do as commanded in the 2nd tense? Are we "saved" anyway? If we don't obey His commands, do we truly believe in Him?

If we don't work to maintain our body or the land we've been given/obtained, what happens to them?

It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification. If someone completely disobeys the command to work out their salvation then that would demonstrate they were never truly saved in the first place. If we are truly born of God then we will grow in the Lord (some faster than others) and we will produce fruit (some more than others). Whether we are still babes in Christ or mature in Christ we still have been saved by grace through faith in Christ. Be careful that you don’t fall into the trap of “type 2 works salvation.”

 

[Ceallaigh]

The quote isn't exactly wrong, per se. In particular, the last point: "We don’t work for our salvation, but rather from it", can also be read as "we don't get saved by obeying the law, but we obey the law because we are already saved." This is pretty much the essence of Christian liberty.

Jesus declared that "the greatest Commandment of the Law" is to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Matthew 22?37-38).

He then says, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching [...] anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching." (John 14:23-24)

Paul too teaches that "Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:10)

However, due to our fallen nature, our ideas of "love" have been corrupted, and we are unable to properly love God or others. This is why the law is put in place, to serve as a guide to love God and others.

"God's laws" are part of His "character" (i.e. His righteousness, holiness, lovingkindness, etc.), therefore our "loving Him" should not be separated from our "obeying Him". Unwillingness to obey God's Word and walk in His ways is a sign that His love is not in us, but obedience is not necessarily a sign that we have received His love.

I think the problem here is that people tend to swing between extremes of Legalism (you must do good works to get saved) and License (since you're already saved, you don't need to do good works). And I know that in some churches, it is assumed that the congregation are all believers, and since they see no need to preach justification to those who are already saved, they preach sanctification instead, which focuses more on following the law and doing good works, etc. This leads to people into believing that obedience and good works are more important than worship.

Excellent summation

 

[mikeforjesus]

That's some very fancy reasoning on your part. So God got Himself a great deal when He got you, huh? You seem very assured of your own great performance in God's sight. Someone like you has no use for God's grace, you're going to pull your own weight into Heaven. Good luck with that, because God demands total perfection, not your sometimes, when you feel like it, efforts. You better be careful, or you will be the one who is on the outside of heaven, looking in.

All of your scripture references very skillfully omit the grace verses that come immediately proceeding the verses that you site. How about reading Romans chapters three, four, and five - and then preach your heresy about the necessity of works to produce or maintain salvation.

You know, I took five or six years off from logging onto this site, because of the works-for-salvation people like you who haunt this board continuously. Seriously, the works people never take a day off from preaching their damnable heresies.

Oh well, maybe I'll try this board again in ten more years; but there will still probably be plenty of Lordship Salvation heretics propagating doctrines of devils.

That is very harsh. She speaks the truth and means well. It may be uncomfortable to hear only if one thinks what is proposed is impossible and unreasonable and we are not used to hearing the truth preached

 

[Kenny'sID]

That's some very fancy reasoning on your part. So God got Himself a great deal when He got you, huh? You seem very assured of your own great performance in God's sight. Someone like you has no use for God's grace, you're going to pull your own weight into Heaven. Good luck with that, because God demands total perfection, not your sometimes, when you feel like it, efforts. You better be careful, or you will be the one who is on the outside of heaven, looking in.

Typical

Behold how Easy Salvation is not truthful.
One might ask how Easy Salvation can act in such a manner? Because they can according to their believes.

They teach the very dangerous, works are not necessary, when in fact:

James 2. God has chosen the poor of this world who are rich in faith—Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.

So, on that day of reckoning, when we stand to be judged, many will show up with their dead faith, and dead faith is no faith at all.

“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” (James 1:22).

Deceiving ones own self is bad enough, but deceiving others will be very costly in my view.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Typical

Behold how Easy Salvation is not truthful.
One might ask how Easy Salvation can act in such a manner? Because they can according to their believes.

They teach the very dangerous, works are not necessary, when in fact:

James 2. God has chosen the poor of this world who are rich in faith—Salvation is gained by keeping the whole law—Faith without works is dead.

So, on that day of reckoning, when we stand to be judged, many will show up with their dead faith, and dead faith is no faith at all.

“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” (James 1:22).

Deceiving ones own self is bad enough, but deceiving others will be very costly in my view.

It's mighty difficult to go through life without works. Without doesn't mean not enough. It means none as in zero.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thanks so much for the link! I’ve watched almost half so far; finding it very interesting and informative. One question though: I went to that guy’s website (and agreed with much of what I read), and noticed that he believes it is possible to become “perfect” after being born-again- that even while here on Earth it is possible for a Christian to totally stop sinning, and that it should be more a question of “if” a Christian commits a sin rather than “when.” Do you share this view, or no? I struggle with OCD and intrusive thoughts, many of which I don’t believe I even agree with deep-down but nonetheless which would be considered “sinful.” And then if I tell myself to stop thinking x thought, of course that just makes me think it even more. Of course there are some tangible sins I have definitely turned from; I am no longer watching inappropriate content, cursing, lying, downloading music illegally, etc. Some of these were even easier to stop than I expected (and I had tried before on my own without much success), which I can only attribute to the Holy Spirit helping out. (I asked Him to help me turn from my sins.)

But I guess what I’m getting at is, I’m just not sure how it is possible for people to live totally without ever sinning, after being saved(?) Is it possible these people *are* still having sin, but they just don’t recognize it as sin? I mean, all things are possible through God, but doesn’t the NT even say that no one is without sin? (Unless that was referring to unbelievers/pre-saved people only.) Sorry if this is a dumb question.

In this section of the forums we are not allowed to discuss Sinless Perfection at length or to promote it without what appears to be: Gaining points, warnings, and or eventual banning.

What I can say is:

I am a Christian who believes in the Bible alone for my salvation. So I believe churches like the Catholic church and the Eastern Orthdox are unbiblical because they add extra biblical traditions like praying to the dead (like praying to Mary and the saints), and they bow down and or kiss statues (Among many other problems). So while I am strongly against Catholicism, I do agree generally (not in detail) with the use of their terms that the Bible teaches that there are mortal sins and non-mortal sins. Mortal sin (from a biblical perspective and not a Catholic one) is any sin that leads to spiritual death unless one confesses to Jesus, and forsakes such sins. Non-mortal sins (from a biblical perspective and not a Catholic one) are minor faults of character that will not necessarily condemn a person. Granted, again the Catholic church is not biblical (in my view), so not everything they say is mortal sin vs. non-mortal is correct. For I believe the Catholic church adds “man made” traditions to what the Bible says.

Anyways, Jesus gives us an example of mortal sin vs. non-mortal sin in Matthew 5:22 (that many Christians today either don't see or they refuse to accept). Lets read it.

“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be answerable to the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be answerable to the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (NASB).​

The words in blue above are referring to non-mortal sins because they are punishment in earthly courts. The words in red above is in reference to a mortal sin because it is in reference to punishment in the after life in fiery hell. Granted, while I am King James Bible fan and it is my final word of authority, in this instance, the NASB translation helps to better clarify what is being said in the King James Bible (KJB). I use the terms “mortal sin” vs. “non-mortal sin” (even though it originates from Catholics) because otherwise it is difficult for other people to see what I am talking about. Terms I created for these (that is more biblical) is “grievous sin vs. errors or hidden faults,” (See: Genesis 18:20-23 and Psalms 19:12) or the sin unto death, vs. the sin not unto death (See: 1 John 5:16-17).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To "work out" your salvation with fear and trembling is not heresy because Paul is not saying to work "for" your salvation, so salvation by works is not being taught here. To "work out" your salvation is to progress to the finish or completion in spiritual growth and maturity. This process is what the Bible calls "ongoing sanctification." When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not in order to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

This is clearly an incorrect interpretation on Philippians 2:12 because the “work out our salvation with fear in trembling” is in context to Philippians 2:13 that says that it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure. So we are to work out our salvation in God working through us (See also my post #34 on how Sanctification of the Spirit is for salvation).

Also why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear? Jesus says fear not the one who can destroy the body, but fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (See: Matthew 10:28). Why fear God if we there is no penalty from sin? Jesus does not make it sound like we can sin and still be saved by His words in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-28, etc.; For even the apostle Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and he gives grace to the humble.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Preaching the necessity of works to either "produce" or "maintain" salvation is indeed heresy. Man is saved by grace through faith and not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

In a different thread on this forum, someone recently made this statement: "Grace is a free gift, but to maintain your grace, one must keep the law (Commandments, Statutes and Judgement)." This amounts to Jesus merely "initially" saving us by grace through faith, then after that, we "maintain" our salvation based on the merits of our performance/law keeping/works etc.. That is "type 2 works salvation."

The more faith in works, is the more faith in self, and the less faith in Christ.

 

[Ceallaigh]

This is clearly an incorrect interpretation on Philippians 2:12 because the “work out our salvation with fear in trembling” is in context to Philippians 2:13 that says that it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure. So we are to work out our salvation in God working through us. Also why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear?

Speaking about Titus Paul wrote:

"And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him." 2 Corinthians 7:15

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Speaking about Titus Paul wrote:

"And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him." 2 Corinthians 7:15

Right, because Paul was sending Titus to them in seeing if they truly repented or not.
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation.
Meaning if a person is truly broken up about their sin with a godly sorrow, they will not make excuses for sin by thinking they can commit serious sin that the Bible condemns with the thinking they are saved.

“Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.” (2 Corinthians 7:10) (NIV).

For Paul feared that many of the Corinthians would not have repented of the many sins they were committing.

For Paul said to the Corinthians who sinned,
“For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.” (2 Corinthians 12:20-21).

For Paul says,
“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” (2 Corinthians 13:5).

Why would Paul say this?
What assurance can we have that the Lord is in us?
Well, the apostle John says,

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:3-4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To "work out" your salvation with fear and trembling is not heresy because Paul is not saying to work "for" your salvation, so salvation by works is not being taught here. To "work out" your salvation is to progress to the finish or completion in spiritual growth and maturity. This process is what the Bible calls "ongoing sanctification." When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not in order to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have.

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by those who teach salvation by works.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

In addition, Galatians 5:19-21 says that the works of flesh are certain kinds of sins.

Romans 8:1 teaches that walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin) in Christ Jesus equates that we are not under the condemnation. Romans 8:13 teaches that if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die, and if we put to death the misdeeds of the body by the power of the Spirit (i.e. we put away sin by the Holy Spirit) we will live (live eternally). Galatians 6:8-9 says if we sow to the flesh (sin) we will reap corruption, but if we sow to the Spirit, we will reap everlasting life. Verse 9 says that we should not faint in “well doing” for in due season will shall reap. “Well doing” is good works. Well doing is equated with sowing to the Spirit whereby we will reap everlasting life. So if we are not on that course of sowing to the Spirit, there is no everlasting life.

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

Belief Alone-ism teaches that one can do serious evil or sin on some level, and still be saved. Yet, Jesus says that those who have done evil will be unto the resurrection of damnation. Yes, we are saved by God's grace, but His grace is not a license for immorality or safety net to justify serious sin or evil on any level (See: Jude 1:4).

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's some very fancy reasoning on your part. So God got Himself a great deal when He got you, huh? You seem very assured of your own great performance in God's sight. Someone like you has no use for God's grace, you're going to pull your own weight into Heaven. Good luck with that, because God demands total perfection, not your sometimes, when you feel like it, efforts. You better be careful, or you will be the one who is on the outside of heaven, looking in.

All of your scripture references very skillfully omit the grace verses that come immediately proceeding the verses that you site. How about reading Romans chapters three, four, and five - and then preach your heresy about the necessity of works to produce or maintain salvation.

You know, I took five or six years off from logging onto this site, because of the works-for-salvation people like you who haunt this board continuously. Seriously, the works people never take a day off from preaching their damnable heresies.

Oh well, maybe I'll try this board again in ten more years; but there will still probably be plenty of Lordship Salvation heretics propagating doctrines of devils.

And what about Jesus’ words in John 15:1-7? Do we need to bear fruit or not?

 

[Kenny'sID]

It's mighty difficult to go through life without works. Without doesn't mean not enough. It means none as in zero.

I didn't get that, will you please rephrase?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Indeed, and you can absolutely obey someone without actually having respect or submission towards that person, but simply because doing the command is more convenient than facing the consequences of disobeying. Jesus did acknowledge, and even applaud, the Pharisees' strict adherence to the letters of the law, but condemns them for neglecting what really matters, i.e. justice, mercy and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23). The latter things are abstract concepts that can't be articulated with written regulation, and is impossible to draw out from one's life unless they are already in Christ. Nowhere did I mention or imply that worship refers to playing music and singing songs.

It seems that many people are againts the quote for its implied endorsement for License/Antinomianism ... but I really don't think it's the case, especially since the second sentence elaborates that "it" (obedience) is a fruit of salvation, not the cause of it.

Anyway, we both acknowledge that "faith" and "works" are both essential, and inseparable, parts of the Salvation package. We just disagree on how we read that particular anonymous comment about salvation. You think it speaks against the need for Christians to obey the Bible, I don't think it does.

The problem arises is when a Belief Alone For Salvation Proponent tells a child that they are saved by a belief in Jesus Christ and it is nothing that they do, and this Belief Alone Proponent never sees this child again. The child could easily turn out to be the next George Sodini or Kenneth Nally. For...

Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”​

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

John MacArthur did not change his beliefs to conform to the Bible after Kenneth Nally committed suicide thinking he would be saved and they had to explain themselves in court. MacArthur and his church doubled down and said this:

“Yes, there'll be a loss of reward, but because of the Lord and his grace he'll go to be with the Lord.   In fact, suicide is one of the ways that the Lord takes home a disobedient believer.”  ​

Meaning, MacArthur and his followers believe that one can commit self murder and still be saved.
But the apostle John says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (See: 1 John 3:15).

Source:
FindLaw's California Court of Appeal case and opinions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The more faith in works, is the more faith in self, and the less faith in Christ.

If the Bible tells you that works (after being saved by God's grace) plays a part in the salvation equation, then your statement is simply not true. It would not be about self, but it would be about following what the Lord wants us to do as a part of His plan of salvation. For what is the alternative? Doing no works and being saved. Being sinful and being saved. What happened to the unprofitable servant in Matthew 25:30? He was cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. Gnashing of teeth is what wolves do, so I doubt it is a place in Heaven as some Belief Alone Proponents falsely teach (like Chuck Missler did).

 

[GDL]

Indeed, and you can absolutely obey someone without actually having respect or submission towards that person, but simply because doing the command is more convenient than facing the consequences of disobeying.

It seems we're more in agreement than disagreement, so please take these comments in the spirit they are intended - that of simply narrowing down to some more precision:

Although what you say above can certainly true, this type of statement can also be used (and has been used) to lessen the fact that obedience to God is required of all mankind, especially His Children.

Also, I find it interesting how some miss the fact that God does in fact put forth extreme and eternal consequences to mankind for remaining in rebellion and disobedience to Him. I think the consequences are more than inconvenient and to some a motivator to obey Him. Since obedience to God is related to righteousness, faith, love, and such vital things of Scripture, I would do or say nothing to lessen the importance of obeying Him, whatever ones knows about Him.

Jesus did acknowledge, and even applaud, the Pharisees' strict adherence to the letters of the law, but condemns them for neglecting what really matters, i.e. justice, mercy and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23). The latter things are abstract concepts that can't be articulated with written regulation, and is impossible to draw out from one's life unless they are already in Christ.

I don't think these things are "abstract" or that they are not found to varying degrees in the unsaved. I would agree that they are to be developed in the Christian. I also think that the undeveloped Christian can be worse at these things than some unbelievers. Jesus is talking to a group of religious hypocrites, not making a general statement about the unsaved.

Nowhere did I mention or imply that worship refers to playing music and singing songs.

I acknowledge that it could be difficult to discern, but I was not inferring you did imply this. It was more a general statement on what much of "church" has done to the word "worship."

It seems that many people are againts the quote for its implied endorsement for License/Antinomianism ... but I really don't think it's the case, especially since the second sentence elaborates that "it" (obedience) is a fruit of salvation, not the cause of it.

My contention with the quote is what I said it was, a clear (to me) implication of a gospel that would likely claim "works salvation" against those of us who stress the vital importance of obedience to God.

Although obedience is certainly a part of the "faith" or "faithfulness" (depending how we translate it in Galatians 5) identified as a fruit of the Spirit, you'll have to identify for me where "obedience" is clearly singled out as a "fruit of salvation."

I think it's abundantly clear from (exegesis) Scripture that obedience is so vitally interconnected with faith as to be used interchangeably at times. Additionally, since we are commanded to believe in the name of God's Son, when we so believe, we have at the same instant been obedient to God.

Simply put, God has covered with a command virtually everything He wants done by us. We don't believe in Jesus as Christ apart from God's command. We don't love God, neighbor, or fellow Christians apart from God's commands.

We begin in faith-obedience and we are developed in increasing faith-obedience.

Bringing the nations to "obedience [of] faith" was Paul's self-identified core mission.

Peter identified in Acts 10:34-35 concerning unbelievers he was sent to evangelize: Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Jesus identified the importance of proper orientation to His authority over everything as "great faith": NKJ Matt. 8:7-10 And Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him." 8 The centurion answered and said, "Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed. 9 "For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one,`Go,' and he goes; and to another,`Come,' and he comes; and to my servant,`Do this,' and he does it." 10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!

Simply put, at this point, anyone who would even remotely lessen or misplace the vital importance of obeying God, is doing a disservice to Him and to those they speak to.

Anyway, we both acknowledge that "faith" and "works" are both essential, and inseparable, parts of the Salvation package. We just disagree on how we read that particular anonymous comment about salvation. You think it speaks against the need for Christians to obey the Bible, I don't think it does.

I answered this earlier in this post. I think it speaks to a false gospel the OP spoke against. I've picked the statement apart a bit already. There's more I can say about it, but haven't.