Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Reborn Yet Again

Just out of curiosity MK you don't believe in a literal fire in the LOF?

And I hope you and Coffee stick around. I don't want to be the only one around here defending eternal torment to the annihilation believers
​

Not sure what you find so funny about that.

This parable shows a man being tormented in a flame in Hades.
What do you make of this verse?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.
Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading.

Luke 16:24
And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--
that I am being pained in this Flame/flogi <5395>."

First, notice that the rich man identifies Abraham as his father, just as the Pharisees did (John 8:39). The rich man (Judah) is now shown to be undergoing reproof, testing, and punishment in "this flame" (singular, not "these flames"). It is quite obvious that the flame is not literal, because a wet fingertip on the tongue would do nothing to quench the pain inflicted by real flames.

The word rendered "torment" here is a form of the Greek verb odunao, which literally means "grief," "pain," or "suffering." Predominantly, it conveys the sense of mental anguish, not physical pain. Forms of this word are found only four times in the Scriptures, all in the writings of Luke. It appears twice in this parable, in verses 24 and 25. In Luke 2:48, it is used to describe the anxious distress that Mary and Joseph felt after they discovered the 12-year old Yeshua missing on the trip home from Jerusalem after the Passover feast. In Acts 20:38, it depicts the sorrow the elders of the Ephesian Church felt at Paul's farewell announcement that they would never see him again.

The rich man cries out from the symbolic darkness of Hades for comfort because of the suffering caused by the flame.
The explanation of the symbolism of the flame will require a little background information.




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[Angelquill]

Right...you use a slur as a way of an anti-catholic type of biased arguing over the topic addressed and then get on the anti bullying bus.

I call that absolute cow flop.

Actually, the lady I mentioned earlier...my friend from Pennsylvania, who is a devout Catholic, teases me by calling me a "Prottie". It doesn't offend me in the least.
Amazingly, it does seem to offend you, though.

Only one using bullying language and tone is you...let's now get to the POINT...in case you still aren't aware

Considering that the topic you are defending got moved for being unorthodox. That alone should tell you that the point your trying to defend and have come across as orthodox and in the vein of the scriptures is wrong.

Yes I know, it hurts knowing that annhilationism is not biblically sound or in line with the Creeds, but it's not...and the more you try to defend that point as being sound and orthodox, relying on "gut feelings" or a misinterpreted viewing of Scripture does not help you out either.

So, I'm supposed to base my belief on where CF puts a thread? Really?
Honey, if I'm not going to base what I think about this on what the RC teaches, whatever makes you think I'm going to do so because CF moved the thread?

And once again, it is heart.
My gut feeling is that I'm hungry....

 

[Angelquill]

Ahh, well....I thought we'd be discussing scripture.
How did I ever get to be so naïve?

 

[By Faith Alone]

Actually, the lady I mentioned earlier...my friend from Pennsylvania, who is a devout Catholic, teases me by calling me a "Prottie". It doesn't offend me in the least.
Amazingly, it does seem to offend you, though.
So, I'm supposed to base my belief on where CF puts a thread? Really?
Honey, if I'm not going to base what I think about this on what the RC teaches, whatever makes you think I'm going to do so because CF moved the thread?
And once again, it is heart.
My gut feeling is that I'm hungry....

Nice to know the accusers refuse to or are unable to scrutinize their own personal errors.

Wonder how the late great SAINT Martin Luther would have dealt with this.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ahh, well....I thought we'd be discussing scripture.
How did I ever get to be so naïve?

I don't have an answer for that......





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[James Is Back]

Not sure what you find so funny about that.

This parable shows a man being tormented in a flame in Hades.
What do you make of this verse?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell.
Yet a thorough, unbiased examination of this story will show that the generally accepted interpretations of this passage of Scripture are erroneous and misleading.

Luke 16:24
And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--
that I am being pained in this Flame/flogi <5395>."

First, notice that the rich man identifies Abraham as his father, just as the Pharisees did (John 8:39). The rich man (Judah) is now shown to be undergoing reproof, testing, and punishment in "this flame" (singular, not "these flames"). It is quite obvious that the flame is not literal, because a wet fingertip on the tongue would do nothing to quench the pain inflicted by real flames.

The word rendered "torment" here is a form of the Greek verb odunao, which literally means "grief," "pain," or "suffering." Predominantly, it conveys the sense of mental anguish, not physical pain. Forms of this word are found only four times in the Scriptures, all in the writings of Luke. It appears twice in this parable, in verses 24 and 25. In Luke 2:48, it is used to describe the anxious distress that Mary and Joseph felt after they discovered the 12-year old Yeshua missing on the trip home from Jerusalem after the Passover feast. In Acts 20:38, it depicts the sorrow the elders of the Ephesian Church felt at Paul's farewell announcement that they would never see him again.

The rich man cries out from the symbolic darkness of Hades for comfort because of the suffering caused by the flame.
The explanation of the symbolism of the flame will require a little background information.




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I wasn't laughing at anything of the such. I was joking that I was going to be stuck in here alone defending against the annihilation believers but as I said I'm bailing. I'm done with this back and forth stuff that isn't going no where.

Chow folks!

 

[Timothew]

I agree with Mama Kidigo that your posts have, for the most part, been polite and stuck with the content of your interlocutor's posts. That's appreciated, Thanks for your work. I do not share your beliefs and have not been convinced by what you've written but I go away with a fairly positive impression of your conduct in the discussion.

Why do I even HAVE an interlocutor?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I wasn't laughing at anything of the such. I was joking that I was going to be stuck in here alone defending against the annihilation believers but as I said I'm bailing.
I'm done with this back and forth stuff that isn't going no where.

Chow folks!

Chow......



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[By Faith Alone]

Chow......

Now. Why did my stomach start growling and my mouth begin to drool??

 

[Timothew]

Now. Why did my stomach start growling and my mouth begin to drool??

I know! I just finished lunch and I'm still hungry, I can't stop eating for some reason. I just broke into the peanut butter.

 

[Der Alte]

I know! I just finished lunch and I'm still hungry, I can't stop eating for some reason. I just broke into the peanut butter.

I like bananas with crunchy peanut butter.

 

[Timothew]

I like bananas with crunchy peanut butter.

That sounds good. Really good. Right now I could eat my shoe with crunchy peanut butter, I don't know why I am so hungry.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Why do I even HAVE an interlocutor?

Yep. That dang apostrophe has a tendency to disrupt the naturally congruent flow in searching rational and normal understanding.

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!!

 

[Angelquill]

I highlighted the words you used to personalise your response. I did it to show how your posts fail to differentiate the person from the organisation and from the doctrine and from the facts. It is the persistent personalisation present in your posts that adds to their egregiousness. I haven't bothered to count the number of direct or implied personal insults in the above quote but if anything is bullying it is what's written in the quote above. Basically all I see is that whatever I have to say is rubbish and will be ignored because I am a Catholic. It's pretty self evident that such is the case from the way this thread has moved from some interesting discussion about both scripture and church teaching to the above style of post.

Okay...let's look at the words you highlighted.

You (MC) may accurately present what your(MC's) church teaches all you(MC) like, that's your(MC's) business...and my attitude is going to be "so what"?

I have nothing whatsoever against the Catholic church...well, except for some of your(Catholic church's) history. I would do anything to avoid giving you(Catholic church) back the authority that you(Catholic church) once had. You(Catholic church) would only abuse it again, as you(MC) have proven.

Now, individual Catholics are quite a different story. In fact one of my best friends teaches Catholic school up in Pennsylvania. She is a great lady. We don't always agree, but she is okay with that, and so am I.

Not all of you(Catholics) think that your(Catholics') church tradition is the end all and be all of everyone else's faith.

Oh, and one of the things that I admire so much about her is that her heart is also very much in her faith. She is a very kind and caring lady, who goes out of her way for others at every opportunity. She is everything a Christian ought to be, without being obnoxious about it. We could all, Catholic or not, learn from her.

Yes, I agree with Faith Alone about a few things, one of which is Catholic bullying. I will not submit to it, either. I know you(MC) don't like that, and I'm sorry. That's just the way it is.

Nothing against you(MC) personally...I just don't like bullies. I'm "speaking up"...

And...good morning. I do hope you(MC) have a pleasant day.

Fevvinsakes...all this cuz I said that you'd do better convincing non-Catholics from the Scriptures, and not from your (the Catholic church's) tradition. Those toes are awfully sensitive, I guess...

 

[By Faith Alone]

Fevvinsakes...all this cuz I said that you'd do better convincing non-Catholics from the Scriptures, and not from your (the Catholic church's) tradition. Those toes are awfully sensitive, I guess...

If'n they wouldn't stick their feet in the aisle the toes would be safe.

 

[Angelquill]

If'n they wouldn't stick their feet in the aisle the toes would be safe.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?
Ok folks, let's stick to the topic.​

Should not believing in eternal torment in hellfire be considered a heresy and/or an unorthodox doctrine?

I would like some from CF staff to also address this specicif topic. Thank you.

[LLoJ...disappointed this got move to the UA board]



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[Angelquill]

Hmmm...
No staff has answered you yet?
Obviously, I don't think it is heresy...but I was hoping you may have gotten some input from someone who matters...

 

[By Faith Alone]

Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?
Ok folks, let's stick to the topic.​

Should not believing in eternal torment in hellfire be considered a heresy and/or an unorthodox doctrine?

And we have been unveiling also the driving force behind such labels. The illumination is in the words

I would like some from CF staff to also address this specicif topic. Thank you.

Hopefully the staff is taking under advisement as we speak. Do not want a hurried reply.

[LLoJ...disappointed this got move to the UA board]

Me too. Flushing Truth down the toilet is not my cup of tea. It is TRUTH that guides me.

 

[By Faith Alone]

.....I was hoping you may have gotten some input from someone who matters...

LORD!! Put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth!!