Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[shturt678s]

MoreCoffee is not a bully. He is a valued contributor to CF (GT in particular), and has been for a long time.

I say that even though I am not not now, never have been and never will be Catholic, and also despite the fact that I disagree with his stance in this particular thread.

I've always tried to back 'wimps,' however never felt MC was a 'wimp' like myself...back him into a corner and he comes out swinging with the true Word of God...duck!

Old Jack weighing in.

 

[Angelquill]

I've always tried to back 'wimps,' however never felt MC was a 'wimp' like myself...back him into a corner and he comes out swinging with the true Word of God...duck!

Old Jack weighing in.

All I saw him swinging was the pope's authority. Not binding on non-Catholics.
If you want my attention, you'll need to argue from Scripture...

 

[Angelquill]

"The Catholic church says" only works for Catholics. It's not some kind of magic incantation that is going to make everyone agree.
I mean, the Inquisitions didn't even accomplish that.
What did you think the term "Protestant" means?

 

[By Faith Alone]

All I saw him swinging was the pope's authority. Not binding on non-Catholics.
If you want my attention, you'll need to argue from Scripture...

Well. Guess I'll just have to "rep" that one.

 

[By Faith Alone]

"The Catholic church says" only works for Catholics. It's not some kind of magic incantation that is going to make everyone agree.
I mean, the Inquisitions didn't even accomplish that.
What did you think the term "Protestant" means?

Well. To hear a catholic use the term? Just as bad as the "N" word.

 

[Rhamiel]

Right. I was aware that we had strayed a bit, but there was so little agreement on what a heresy means that it seemed necessary to address that. And as for your specific inquiry...

As I understand it, any "annihilation" would be considered a heresy, as would a temporary hell resulting in everyone being saved sooner or later. Describing hell as a place of loss and alienation from God but not pitchforks and fire would not be a heresy.

well said
there is a spectrum of views on hell that can be considered orthodox (small o)
but annihilation and universalism are outside that spectrum

Why? Based on what?

why? because it goes against Christian teachings on the mater
based on the Bible, the Church Councils, and the teachings of the Early Church Fathers

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Angelquill

"The Catholic church says" only works for Catholics. It's not some kind of magic incantation that is going to make everyone agree.
I mean, the Inquisitions didn't even accomplish that.
What did you think the term "Protestant" means?
​

Well. To hear a catholic use the term? Just as bad as the "N" word.

Never heard it put quite like that, but you might have a point there.....

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982422-67/#post44368331
Are Protestants Christians?


Obama at Ebenezer - We Shall Overcome - YouTube



.

 

[Anto9us]

are Protestants Christians?

lol, Little Lamb


anyway - Hi Jack !!

long time no see!

 

[shturt678s]

are Protestants Christians?

lol, Little Lamb


anyway - Hi Jack !!

long time no see!

I received a few black eyes since I seen you last Anto, MC still has an ice pack on...we're still in the battle.

I protest being alluded to a RC, or was it Protestant? That sometimers again,

Old Jack still a Lutheran I think?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?

Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.

PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.

Annihiliationism = not heresy; Universalism = heresy

That's my two cents.

 

[shturt678s]

Annihiliationism = not heresy; Universalism = heresy

That's my two cents.

I'll have to agree with you on this one.

Old normally disagreeable Jack

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Anto9us

are Protestants Christians?

lol, Little Lamb


anyway - Hi Jack !!

long time no see!
​

I protest being alluded to a RC, or was it Protestant? That sometimers again,

Old Jack still a Lutheran I think?

Think long, think wrong.

I received a few black eyes since I seen you last Anto, MC still has an ice pack on...we're still in the battle.

Better to enter battle with 2 black eyes than no eyes at all


.

 

[shturt678s]

Think long, think wrong.

Better to enter battle with 2 black eyes than no eyes at all


.

You have a good point. I was letting MC do my thinking for me where I was doing his agaping...he's out with a black eye and now have to think long. Cannot wait till he comes back as some of the posters difficult to agape.

Old agaping Jack looking for his misplaced thinking cap?

 

[Tzaousios]

It is fine if you are, and if you think that not believing in eternal torment is heresy...but you don't get to impose that thinking on everyone else.
That sort of thing is why there are Protestants in the first place.
The days of Inquisitions are over. Your church's authority as to what is or is not heresy is limited to your own congregations.

How does what MoreCoffee has posted about what the church has always believed about such a doctrine "impose that thinking" and have any relation to "the days of the Inquisition?" It would seem more prudent to examine one's beliefs and decide if they are similar to what Christians throughout church history have believed and been martyred to protect.

 

[Tzaousios]

So the point is kind of lost on people who are rethinking these ancient ideas

I don't understand why there is such a pressing need to bulldoze what our Christian forbears believed and handed down for our benefit. Does it have something to do with the "church" or religious organization which one associates "eternal torment?"

 

[Tzaousios]

I was raised Episcopalian...a very good Catholic friend calls it "Catholic Lite"...but I am one who is rethinking the whole "eternal damnation" thing. It just doesn't feel like God, to me.
You don't want to know where I think the idea originally came from...but I very honestly do not think God thought it up....

Can you explain why and how "what you feel" should be any kind of barometer which can accurately apprehend what doctrine comes from God and what does not? It is not exactly a method or a process that anyone else can verify or look into.

 

[Tzaousios]

I thought we covered that already?
That only works for Catholics.
Most of us really don't care what your church teaches.
I'm not trying to offend you, just trying to tell you that, if you want to persuade anyone to think as you do, telling them "my church says" isn't going to be much help.

This ignores the opposite notion that others should accept yours or anyone else's interpretation on the matter. Why is your interpretation better or more correct than that of the church or any other individual Christian? How does one ultimately apprehend truth on this matter if everyone interprets and defines for themselves?

 

[Tzaousios]

Guys, with all due respect, this isn't the Middle Ages any more. The Inquisitions are over....

This pejorative reference to Catholicism does not lend credibility to your assertions or help people understand your position.

Listening to them, I can almost hear the blood dripping...

Neither is this.

We have thrown off the chains of the RC.
Why would we willingly put them back on?

I mean, the pope is a cool guy, and all...and I wish him the best...
But he's still just a man, like everyone else. He has no authority over me.

This presents a false dichotomy. Despite whether "we have thrown off the chains of the RC," your statement does not address the fact that, if we are looking for truth in this matter, your assertions are providing another set of "chains" to which one ultimately either submits or rejects.

 

[Tzaousios]

I see the inquisition did go on behind my back while I slept.
Nice.
Okay...what I said was that nobody who is not Catholic is going to be impressed with what your church teaches. What I said is that if you truly want to persuade someone else who is not Catholic that your view is the correct one, you'd do better to use Scripture than church tradition.

I am not Catholic and its stance and method of argumentation is much more persuasive than what you have offered here. Forgive me, but it seems to be the result more of paranoia about Catholicism or the rhetorical demands of anti-Catholicism than a persuasive or researched argument.

The Middle Ages are over. No one trembles at the thought that the Catholics might get you if you don't watch out any more.
Just thought you might like to know...

Why do you keep repeating these pejorative references to Catholicism and church history? It may rally some lonewolf Protestants hereabouts who share the same political convictions concerning the Catholic Church, but it does not persuade or impress those who are looking for historical truth in the matter.

And to think I slept so well...
Look, you misunderstood me. I tried to tell you that the Catholic church no longer has the authority to tell people outside of the church what is heresy and what is not. It is not the Middle Ages any more...at least not among the rest of Christendom.

Aside from further pejorative references, neither this statement nor others you have given ("I feel" and your particular interpretation) have provided a viable alternative to apprehend the truth in this matter.

I have nothing whatsoever against the Catholic church...well, except for some of your history. I would do anything to avoid giving you back the authority that you once had. You would only abuse it again, as you have proven.

Can you please explain how this is the case given all you have said about Roman Catholicism, tradition, Inquisitions, and the like in this thread?

Speaking of history, Protestants do not have a clean record at all when it comes to religious violence and persecution. Read up on the Peasants' War in Lower Germany during the Reformation, the Anabaptist theocracy in Münster, or even the modern day treatment of women and children by Independent Fundamentalist Baptist authority figures.

 

[Angelquill]

I will rely on what my Bible tells me.
And my heart is very much in my faith...my faith is very much in my heart.
I rely heavily on what my God has given me in His word, and not what any man (or woman for that matter) has to say about it, or what any church teaches about it.
To continue to insist that I or anyone else accept one denomination as the final authority on what we ought to believe isn't going to be very productive.
However, each one is responsible for his or her own conscience.