Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[shturt678s]

At least yer honest



.

Christians and non are so corrupt over here, I've been telling others for decades that all they have to do is be honest at their business, daily activities, and Church then you'll need me to count your money at the end of the day forever and ever....well maybe not me...not known for my counting skills, ie, a blinding fire fly of light in absolute cave darkness.

Sadly there's too much truth to the former slight exaggeration.

Old Jack's opinion...sorry getting carried away.

I thank our Lord for opening my eyes a little more....now I understand why most don't put much time in during the week regarding their forever home due to if they don't make it...just turn to dust with no punishment forever and ever and ever and ever, ie, can have Jesus + the world having their bases covered partying out....deception after deception..... awaking in hell is a forever and ever condition in torments inwardly and outwardly at the last day for sure...without any doubts.

btw if MC is the quality coffee drinker that I think he is...he cannot be in error regarding his view.

 

[hedrick]

MoreCoffee: I think you're being too literal about eternal punishment. Indeed I think you're cherry picking. The term "destruction" is more common. While you can interpret it non-literally to include everlasting punishment, that's at least as much a stretch as understanding eternal punishment non-literally.

See also Ps 37:20: "But the wicked perish, and the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away."

The fact is, the Bible uses various images to speak of both eternal life and eternal death. We can't pick a few and ignore the rest. If we don't engage in cherry-picking, I think the most honest conclusion is that we don't know, and that the truth may be something we're not currently in a position to understand.

Is the main attribute of eternal life that it lasts forever? I don't think so. It's that it is life in God's Kingdom. Similarly, eternal punishment is exclusion from that life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

First of all, it isn't the body you need to worry about. That's so much meat, and really not worth very much.
It is the spirit, or whatever you like to call the essence that is you that lives in the meat that is important.
Where is that during the time between your physical death and your resurrection? Why, it went back to God, Who gave it to you to begin with. Don't worry, He won't lose it.
When the time comes for you to be judged, He will raise you with your spirit in tact.
Now, for those who go away into eternal punishment...well, I believe that the whole person will be completely destroyed...just like death, when it went into the lake of fire.
I do not insist that anyone else believe this...however, it is what I believe, based on the many, many verses that say things like "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" or "God is not willing that any should perish" or "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life", etc.
You do know that life is the opposite of death, right?

Jesus said, And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. Revelation says, And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshippers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. Do you believe it?

If they are eternally punished and the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever why did you say God would be cruel to torment them eternally? Do you retract that statement now?

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Day and night can have no reference to the eternal state. They gave no rest to those who ARE worshiping. It is the PRESENT participle and does NOT say those who WERE worshiping or DID worship the beast. The implication is the they will have no rest WHILE they are on earth in such a state.

I bet somebody was under EXTREME conviction about what they had done.

Please, stop the irrelevant diversions. Jesus said that the wicked shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. It isn't rocket science. It's easy to grasp the words. The wicked go into everlasting punishment. Do you believe that?

Yes.
Their punishment...being annihilated...lasts forever.
Their gone, forever.
They have given up the privilege of life forever.
They are never, ever going to exist again, in any state whatsoever.
It's over, no more, all gone, they are d e a d, the end, that's all.

Now, to me, that's pretty darn terrifying. It is the ultimate punishment.
But it isn't cruel. It is perfectly just.
God says that He puts before you life and death...and asks you to choose life.

Okay, here is your entire post with my entire post in the quote above. I made your "Yes." bold because it was the part of your post that directly answered my question, specifically I asked "Do you believe that?". Since you said "Yes." That was the relevant part of your reply, the rest was just verbiage to mitigate the "Yes." and to obfuscate the meaning of the "Yes.". If you really didn't mean "Yes." then you should not have said it. Perhaps you intended "Sort of, but only with these half dozen qualifications because basically I like annihilationism way more than I like what Jesus says in Matthew 25:46", but I suspect you would not like to say that, so you said "Yes." and then added half a dozen qualifications to make your Yes mean No. Anyway, I think my previous reply to your "Yes." was more favourable to your position. Your qualifications only make what you said in that "Yes." vacuous.

By the way, I am not attempting to be irenic, I gave up on that after you constantly called Catholics and Catholic teaching all sorts of unpleasant things. And after you spent four or five posts nodding to the absurd accusations made by "By Faith Alone" against the Catholic Church. It is evident that accurate presentation of Catholic beliefs is not part of the plan for By Faith Alone's posts and I think the same is true of your posts. I hope that can be corrected by yourself. There's nothing good about misrepresenting what I believe and what the Catholic Church teaches. Just as there's nothing good about eviscerating what Jesus says in Matthew 25:46.

Cheers.

 

[MoreCoffee]

MoreCoffee: I think you're being too literal about eternal punishment. Indeed I think you're cherry picking. The term "destruction" is more common. While you can interpret it non-literally to include everlasting punishment, that's at least as much a stretch as understanding eternal punishment non-literally.

See also Ps 37:20: "But the wicked perish, and the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away."

The fact is, the Bible uses various images to speak of both eternal life and eternal death. We can't pick a few and ignore the rest. If we don't engage in cherry-picking, I think the most honest conclusion is that we don't know, and that the truth may be something we're not currently in a position to understand.

Is the main attribute of eternal life that it lasts forever? I don't think so. It's that it is life in God's Kingdom. Similarly, eternal punishment is exclusion from that life.

I think you're assuming I mean something that I have not stated. I think that is a mistake. I think that maybe you should reconsider your comments.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I see your posts as stating some things that are not the truth as well as some things that are true enough. I see sloppy exegesis in your posts. I see lots of accusations levelled at Catholics in your posts. I see lots of dodging and weaving and avoiding offering retractions where they are needed. I also see willingness to accuse God as well as other Christians for the sake of being right about annihilationism. In short I'd like to see some retractions, it would be encouraging.

Would you, or have you ever, requested the same from those within your own "clique"?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Would you, or have you ever, requested the same from those within your own "clique"?

You assume that I have a clique. That is an error. Your question is therefore irrelevant.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Would you, or have you ever, requested the same from those within your own "clique"?

Thanks for dropping the bold.

 

[Viren]

Yes, to those without mercy.

 

[James Is Back]

I think he called your posts erroneous. You ought not to confuse comments about your posts with comments about you.

This. My comment had nothing to do with her personally.

 

[By Faith Alone]

You assume that I have a clique. That is an error. Your question is therefore irrelevant.

Does the relationship catholic/protestant bring anything to mind? I think we may make progress if we dispense with accusing others of the same things we may very well be guilty. That is all.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Does the relationship catholic/protestant bring anything to mind? I think we may make progress if we dispense with accusing others of the same things we may very well be guilty. That is all.

I have no idea what you mean by "Does the relationship catholic/protestant bring anything to mind?" And I think that you might try avoiding accusing me of this or that simply because I am a Catholic.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

MoreCoffee: I think you're being too literal about eternal punishment. Indeed I think you're cherry picking. The term "destruction" is more common. While you can interpret it non-literally to include everlasting punishment, that's at least as much a stretch as understanding eternal punishment non-literally.

See also Ps 37:20: "But the wicked perish, and the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away."

The fact is, the Bible uses various images to speak of both eternal life and eternal death. We can't pick a few and ignore the rest. If we don't engage in cherry-picking, I think the most honest conclusion is that we don't know, and that the truth may be something we're not currently in a position to understand.

Is the main attribute of eternal life that it lasts forever? I don't think so. It's that it is life in God's Kingdom.
Similarly, eternal punishment is exclusion from that life.

Not sure what you are getting out.

Isn't the opposite of eternal life, eternal death?




.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Christians and non are so corrupt over here, I've been telling others for decades that all they have to do is be honest at their business, daily activities, and Church then you'll need me to count your money at the end of the day forever and ever....well maybe not me...not known for my counting skills, ie, a blinding fire fly of light in absolute cave darkness.

Sadly there's too much truth to the former slight exaggeration.

Old Jack's opinion...sorry getting carried away.

I thank our Lord for opening my eyes a little more....now I understand why most don't put much time in during the week regarding their forever home due to if they don't make it...just turn to dust with no punishment forever and ever and ever and ever, ie, can have Jesus + the world having their bases covered partying out....deception after deception..... awaking in hell is a forever and ever condition in torments inwardly and outwardly at the last day for sure...without any doubts.

btw if MC is the quality coffee drinker that I think he is...he cannot be in error regarding his view.

There is not enough money on earth to convince me that a good-hearted, loving person, like granny down the road, is going to suffer for eternity for simple unbelief.
The WICKED now is another story. Just what REALLY would warrant such a cook-out?

Case in point. Shacrach, Meschak and Abed-Nego. Ole Neb was CRUEL to sent those three Hebrew children for not worshiping him. I have ALWAYS thought it a half a bubble out of plumb to think God would do the same thing.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I have no idea what you mean by "Does the relationship catholic/protestant bring anything to mind?" And I think that you might try avoiding accusing me of this or that simply because I am a Catholic.

I am on the outside looking in. I will inform you when you confirm my observation as the events unfold in the future. Ciao.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Christians and non are so corrupt over here, I've been telling others for decades that all they have to do is be honest at their business, daily activities, and Church then you'll need me to count your money at the end of the day forever and ever....well maybe not me...not known for my counting skills, ie, a blinding fire fly of light in absolute cave darkness.

Sadly there's too much truth to the former slight exaggeration.

Old Jack's opinion...sorry getting carried away.

I thank our Lord for opening my eyes a little more....now I understand why most don't put much time in during the week regarding their forever home due to if they don't make it...just turn to dust with no punishment forever and ever and ever and ever, ie, can have Jesus + the world having their bases covered partying out....deception after deception..... awaking in hell is a forever and ever condition in torments inwardly and outwardly at the last day for sure...without any doubts.

btw if MC is the quality coffee drinker that I think he is...he cannot be in error regarding his view.

I can picture MC drinking this coffee

Jack Nicholson & Morgan Freeman & Kopi Luwak - YouTube


.

 

[Timothew]

Wouldn't the opposite of "eternal life" be "eternal death"?

Jhn 10:28
“And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.




.

I agree, the opposite of eternal life is eternal death. This should be obvious to anyone. Only one of the groups in Matthew 25:26 goes to eternal life, the other group doesn't have eternal life. Their eternal punishment is not having eternal life. Having eternal life means that the person who has is will never perish. Those who don't have eternal life will perish.

 

[Timothew]

So there's nothing cruel in me affirming what Jesus said by saying that the wicked are eternally tormented in gehenna. great. some progress.

Don't you think that you are switching things up a little bit? We agree that there is eternal punishment, but eternal punishment is not the same thing as eternal torment. You can't say "The Bible says that there is eternal punishment, so that means there is eternal torment".

If you want to affirm what Jesus said about Gehenna, He didn't say that the wicked are eternally tormented in Gehenna, he said that the body and soul are destroyed in Gehenna. See Matthew 10:28.

Can you show me where Jesus ever said that the wicked are eternally tormented in Gehenna? I'm sure that you won't.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Actually, CF does have a rule about how we are to treat each other.
So, really, it isn't my rule.

The rule I'm speaking of has nothing to do with CF rules but is one of your own making. I'm speaking of your insistence that the Orthodox and Catholic refrain from sharing what the church teaches and use Scripture only. A rule btw that you do not follow yourself as your basing your view on a feeling.
So if it really bothers you to hear what the church teaches, I think you'll need to put the Orthodox and Catholics on ignore. It's what we do. We look to the church as Christ is the head
Also, this is not a formal debate. It's a discussion.

 

[Targaryen]

The rule I'm speaking of has nothing to do with CF rules but is one of your own making. I'm speaking of your insistence that the Orthodox and Catholic refrain from sharing what the church teaches and use Scripture only. A rule btw that you do not follow yourself as your basing your view on a feeling.
So if it really bothers you to hear what the church teaches, I think you'll need to put the Orthodox and Catholics on ignore. It's what we do. We look to the church as Christ is the head
Also, this is not a formal debate. It's a discussion.

Indeed.

So much for gut feelings.

 

[Timothew]

I agree, we should not base this on Gut Feelings, but on Scripture.

Mark the blameless and behold the upright,
for there is a future for the man of peace.
But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed;
the future of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psalm 37:37-38

My "gut feeling" is that we should believe what the Bible says instead of an empty tradition that claims that transgressors will not be destroyed but they will instead be preserved forever in hell so that they can be tormented forever. Which is something the Bible never says. But sometimes established traditions win out over truth, for a while...