Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

Mama Kidogo · Sep 10, 2014

Angelquill said:
Now, if hell were the lake of fire, how could it be thrown into the lake of fire?
And we know what happens to death..."death is no more"

Add to this the number of times God says things like "the soul that sins shall die" or "the wages of sin is death"....

After awhile a pattern emerges....

Hell being cast into the lake of fire does not change it from being hell. Just turns up the heat.

By Faith Alone · Sep 10, 2014

shturt678s said:
Had a few paygrade decreases...our Lord even sent me to back of the line regarding gifts of the Spirit?

After I fully heartfully realized forever tormented in the lake of fire is a reality then I was in line for still an awaiting paygrade increase.
Old Jack

The lake of fire was the SECOND death for all except for the unholy trinity.

That lake is a KINGDOM jugdment (Gehenna). That second resurrection forms a PAIR of resurrections for that time period only and is NOT a general resurrection. "Each man in his own order" (1 Cor 15) denies that claim.

Those that lost their life and beheaded for HIS sake found that life again in the first resurrection and received reward. Those that SAVED their lives by taking the mark were resurrected at the end of the 1,000 and were made known their bad works lost their lives in the SECOND death.

Mama Kidogo · Sep 10, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
The lake of fire was the SECOND death for all except for the unholy trinity.

That lake is a KINGDOM jugdment (Gehenna). That second resurrection forms a PAIR of resurrections for that time period only and is NOT a general resurrection. "Each man in his own order" (1 Cor 15) denies that claim.

Those that lost their life and beheaded for HIS sake found that life again in the first resurrection and received reward. Those that SAVED their lives by taking the mark were resurrected at the end of the 1,000 and were made known their bad works lost their lives in the SECOND death.

And I should believe this why?

shturt678s · Sep 10, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
2 Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my... departure....is at hand.

359 // analusiv // analusis // an-al'-oo-sis //
from 360 ; TDNT - 4:337,543; n f
AV - departure 1; 1
1) an unloosing (as of things woven)
2) a dissolving (into separate parts)
3) departure
3a) a metaphor drawn from loosing from moorings preparatory to
setting sail

This is CERTAINLY destruction and perishing at the hands of a natural process called...CORRUPTION:
Gen 3:19....dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

No resurrection mentioned here, but if some of the dead pass the judgment, will they be resurrected and not the ones that do not pass the test remain in the ground?

2 Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge....the quick and the dead .....at his appearing and his kingdom;

What about those judged this very moment in light of Jn.3:18, ie, so when the judged passes on immediately awaking in hell in conscous toments, waaaay before the resurrection?

The kicker is now while in torments knowing all (where they continually rejected the truth, ICor.13:10 or so) have to look forward to their new bodies and them being tormented inwardly and outwardly forever and ever....not good!

Old Jack's opinion...in all seriousness due to the full blown apostasy of hypergrace I was born into, I'm shooting for the upper less suffering levels of hell where most around me are promised their new home will be in the upper glories of heaven due to the money and land they are binging in to the Church...economics thing.

By Faith Alone · Sep 10, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
Hell being cast into the lake of fire does not change it from being hell. Just turns up the heat.

Death and the GRAVE are cast into the lake.

Isa 38:10 I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to... the gates of the grave....I am deprived of the residue of my years.

Jesus has the keys. Satan has no more power over death. The resurrection of Jesus Christ settled that score.

Heb 2:14-15....through death he might destroy him that... had ....the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

shturt678s · Sep 10, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
The lake of fire was the SECOND death for all except for the unholy trinity.

That lake is a KINGDOM jugdment (Gehenna). That second resurrection forms a PAIR of resurrections for that time period only and is NOT a general resurrection. "Each man in his own order" (1 Cor 15) denies that claim.

Those that lost their life and beheaded for HIS sake found that life again in the first resurrection and received reward. Those that SAVED their lives by taking the mark were resurrected at the end of the 1,000 and were made known their bad works lost their lives in the SECOND death.

Only a head's up my brother, 2nd death routine: Rev.20:11-15 Summarized here we see the end of this 'death' which from Adam forward tore apart all men's souls and bodies. In the vision this end is stated symbolically, in ICor.15:26 it's stated literally.

1st part of "1" resurrection is where each pass on from Adam forward where immediately upon passing one awakes in either hell or heaven...no soul snoozing.

Shut up Jack...getting off topic....

Old Jack's less than an opinion

By Faith Alone · Sep 10, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
And I should believe this why?

For ..anyone...to believe it they will have to let GOD talk.

The entire book of Revelation is yet FUTURE. God has defined the aim of that great book in simple terms that that time period is for that nation.

The "pearl of Great Price" the Lord spoke of would be taken out of that nation and that is the "remnant of her seed" to which the Beast began to persecute. An elect group out from that elect nation
Jesus said He had not come BUT the the lost sheep of the House of Israel but nobody I have seen on this board even believes that by virtue of their own posts. They want the GENTILES to claim everything promised to Israel for an EARTHLY Kingdom and at the same time swear they are going to Heaven.

The book of Revelation says the 144,000 were of the 12 tribes. I believe Him. Do you? Or are we to say that is the "church" and believe replacement theology? The gifts and callings of God are WITHOUT repentance. There are many cobwebs to be cleaned up before the truth can even begin to be absorbed.

The ONLY way to understand is to begin the "cleanup" willfully.

Targaryen · Sep 10, 2014

Angelquill said:
I was raised Episcopalian...a very good Catholic friend calls it "Catholic Lite"...but I am one who is rethinking the whole "eternal damnation" thing. It just doesn't feel like God, to me.
You don't want to know where I think the idea originally came from...but I very honestly do not think God thought it up....

Doesn't feel like God? We just rely on feelings now and toss out logical exploration and scriptural truth and church teachings passed down to all followers of christ to go with "gut feelings"?

We had that pop up in Christianity before you know, people relying on gut feelings to lead them into "truth". Gnosticism and other heterodox teachings came from that "gut feeling" type of nonsense.

Yes, that's all we need more gut feelings and getting rid of unimportant bits like tradition and logic and critical evaluation.

shturt678s · Sep 10, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
Hell being cast into the lake of fire does not change it from being hell. Just turns up the heat.

With your permission going to make your posit an valid adage using it often.

We have a dry ice syndrome in our churches in need of a warming, at least bringing the worship temperature up to regular ice...your posit may do it?

Old Jack

seeingeyes · Sep 10, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
Why go to google. You can find it in this thread.

Orthowiki has a list of Orthodox heresies:
Heresy - OrthodoxWiki

Adoptionism
Apollinarism
Arianism
Bogomilism
Bosnian Church
Caesaropapism
Docetism
Donatism
Euchites
Gnosticism
Luciferians
Macedonianism
Manichaeism
Marcionism
Monarchianism
Monophysitism
Montanism
Nestorianism
Patripassianism
Peter of Bruis
Priscillianism
Psilanthropism
Sabellianism
Socianism

Notice what isn't on the list...

James Is Back · Sep 10, 2014

So on one hand you have a God that will send you to the LOF for eternal torment and on the other hand you have a God that just destroys you for good. Complete and utter annihilation.

There can't be 2 Gods folks. One is a false idol the other is the one True God.

By Faith Alone · Sep 10, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
Doesn't feel like God? We just rely on feelings now and toss out logical exploration and scriptural truth and church teachings passed down to all followers of christ to go with "gut feelings"?

We had that pop up in Christianity before you know, people relying on gut feelings to lead them into "truth". Gnosticism and other heterodox teachings came from that "gut feeling" type of nonsense.

Yes, that's all we need more gut feelings and getting rid of unimportant bits like tradition and logic and critical evaluation.

The HELL you say:

Ps 92:15 To shew that the Lord is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

Mama Kidogo · Sep 10, 2014

seeingeyes said:
Orthowiki has a list of Orthodox heresies:
Heresy - OrthodoxWiki

Adoptionism

Apollinarism

Arianism

Bogomilism

Bosnian Church

Caesaropapism

Docetism

Donatism

Euchites

Gnosticism

Luciferians

Macedonianism

Manichaeism

Marcionism

Monarchianism

Monophysitism

Montanism

Nestorianism

Patripassianism

Peter of Bruis

Priscillianism

Psilanthropism

Sabellianism

Socianism

Notice what isn't on the list...

The one I'm speaking of and seeing much of in this thread is in that list.

Timothew · Sep 10, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
The one I'm speaking of and seeing much of in this thread is in that list.

Which one is that?

Timothew · Sep 10, 2014

shturt678s said:
I do find humor in the topic as being forever tormented inwardly and outwardly at different levels of hell, one of the few topics I'm 100% sure of.

What's not so humorous is I view annilhilationism as not only falsifying the Word, but one of the gravest kind as allows Christians to have no fear of our Lord continually offending and provoking our Lord for the rest of the week after the one hour on Sunday.

When our Lord views this sinful condition perverting the essentials of the faith collectively then calamities strike where even Christians that do have a heartful fear of our Lord suffer also. I can assure you the older one gets the less one loves pain.

Old Jack's opinion just thinking out loud again...now I have to google up what 'heresy' means?

How does complete and utter destruction "allow Christians to have no fear of our Lord..."? I've heard those who disagree with the doctrine that the wicked will be completely destroyed use this argument before and frankly I am baffled by this argument. Don't you fear that which can completely destroy you? It is bad enough that one person uses this bizarre reasoning. When I see it over and over from the side that supports eternal conscious torment, I see a pattern of thought that is appalling. It is almost as if someone is whispering illogical arguments in yalls ears, and preventing you from seeing and hearing the truth.

Mama Kidogo · Sep 10, 2014

Timothew said:
Which one is that?

I'll keep that to myself as it would go completely off topic.

I see annihilation as simply bad theology outside the teaching of the Church.
They why some have come to this conclusion is where the heresy resides.

By Faith Alone · Sep 10, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
........bad theology outside the teaching of the Church.

MoreCoffee · Sep 10, 2014

Personal opinion doesn't define truth or error nor does it define heresy. It Is the church that defines doctrine and heresy. Scripture has to be interpreted by the Church to define doctrine and heresy.

By Faith Alone · Sep 10, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Personal opinion doesn't define truth or error nor does it define heresy. It Is the church that defines doctrine and heresy. Scripture has to be interpreted by the Church to define doctrine and heresy.

Both you and Mama Kidogo have just declared and infallible church. You both have elevated tradition of men and the pulpit to such a place the inspiration of Scriptures is in the shadows. You have REDACTED Acts 17:11 and 2 Timothy 2:15.

An empty wagon makes much noise. Tradition of men have masked out that still small Voice we need to hear.

Angelquill · Sep 10, 2014

shturt678s said:
I do find humor in the topic as being forever tormented inwardly and outwardly at different levels of hell, one of the few topics I'm 100% sure of.

What's not so humorous is I view annilhilationism as not only falsifying the Word, but one of the gravest kind as allows Christians to have no fear of our Lord continually offending and provoking our Lord for the rest of the week after the one hour on Sunday.

When our Lord views this sinful condition perverting the essentials of the faith collectively then calamities strike where even Christians that do have a heartful fear of our Lord suffer also. I can assure you the older one gets the less one loves pain.

Old Jack's opinion just thinking out loud again...now I have to google up what 'heresy' means?

You do not find the idea of your spirit being completely destroyed a fearful thing? I do...
You honestly would not mind a troop of angels marching you to the lip of the lake of fire, as you must listen to the sounds of celebration from within the gate, now forever locked to you, knowing that this is the last thing you'll ever see or hear?
I think I would be completely devastated.
But if you need to believe that you will suffer forever in order to fear God, then perhaps you ought to go on believing that.
In the end, it really isn't going to matter one way or the other.
God's gonna do it His way, anyhow, no matter how much we argue about it.

Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

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