Is Normal Lust a sin? Scripture please.

[Lokisdottir]

jack rabbit, I am talking about the biblical usage of the word and you're talking about the definition from the dictionary. I don't think the two are necessarily the same. I have already said that there is nothing wrong with sexually desiring one's spouse. I personally choose not to use the word lust.

Michelle

But it's still the exact same feeling no matter what you call it or when it occurs. If a man is aroused by a woman two minutes before they marry, that's a sin, but if it happens two minutes after they marry, the same feeling gets a different name and suddenly it's totally okay?

 

[KCDAD]

Lust implies a sense of selfish carnal pleasure... it is not the feelings a husband and wife share... apparently you are not married.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Lust implies a sense of selfish carnal pleasure... it is not the feelings a husband and wife share... apparently you are not married.

Oh, now we have implications on the definitions. Somebody should have told the dictionary writers. Got it.

 

[KCDAD]

Oh, now we have implications on the definitions. Somebody should have told the dictionary writers. Got it.

Your dictionary gives you objective definitions? Aren't you lucky...

All meaning is implied... or inferred... like the term jackass or cretin, genius or brilliant... what I imply may not be what you infer.

 

[Miss Shelby]

But it's still the exact same feeling no matter what you call it or when it occurs. If a man is aroused by a woman two minutes before they marry, that's a sin, but if it happens two minutes after they marry, the same feeling gets a different name and suddenly it's totally okay?

Look, I am not foisting my option to exclude the word lust as a way to describe a normal desire on anyone else. I am stating my opinion and have given my reasoning for how I have arrived at my opinion. I am not telling anyone else that they are using the word in the wrong way. I thought I made that clear with my posts.

And no, that wouldn't be a very good illustration.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

So you basically have your own dialect of english? Makes communication with the outside world more difficult, doesn't it?

Tell me jackrabbit, am I obliged to use the dictionary's definition of the word in a strict sense? Or am I entitled to a personal opinion which I have arrived at using other sources? Have I told you that you're wrong? Have I said that to anyone in this thread? No, as a matter of fact, I said that I am willing to consider how others use the word. This is a discussion whereby people share thoughts and ideas. That is all I am doing.

yeesh.

Michelle

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Tell me jackrabbit, am I obliged to use the dictionary's definition of the word in a strict sense? Or am I entitled to a personal opinion which I have arrived at using other sources?

Depends on how you use your definition of lust. Unless you tell someone else they are committing a "sin" because of your definition of lust, when that person doesn't agree, knock yourself out.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I disagree up to a point, I think that the phrase 'normal lust' is an oxymoron. I think that lust is always wrong.

I do not disagree that a husband and wife should desire each other in the way that God intends, but I think even between married people there are lines that shouldn't be crossed.

I guess it's the usage of the term lust as something normal that I would disagree with. I know some people don't view it as always being a bad thing, so I am willing to consider how others use the term. This is just my own opinon.

In reading Song of Solomon, I don't see anything there that would be considered lust. (in the biblical usage of the term)

I'm not sure what the OP means, though. She might be trying to ask something completely different.

Michelle

jackrabbit, this is my third or fourth post in the thread. It addresses your concern that my narrow mindedness potentially inhibits my communication skills.

Since we're on the topic of communication, perhaps you should read what people write before you post in response to them. It would save a little bit of time and misunderstanding.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

Depends on how you use your definition of lust. Unless you tell someone else they are committing a "sin" because of your definition of lust, when that person doesn't agree, knock yourself out.

1. I have not accused anyone of sin. I have merely expressed my view of the Biblical application of the word.

2. What do you care? Sin is inconsequential as far as you are concerned, so even if someone were to accuse you or anyone else of it, who cares?

Michelle

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

2. What do you care? Sin is inconsequential as far as you are concerned, so even if someone were to accuse you or anyone else of it, who cares?

I care absolutely nothing about the concept of sin itself, because I don't think it actually exists.

I care about what christians do when they think something is sin.

I care about crusades to stamp out porn.

I care about attempts to shut down topless bars.

If christians don't like sin, they should just not do it. But leave the rest of us, who do not believe in your concept of sin, alone.

Note that I am not talking about real crimes, such as murder, rape, assault, etc. Nearly everyone agrees those should be prohibited.

I am talking about the things that only religious people think should be illegal.

 

[Miss Shelby]

I am talking about the things that only religious people think should be illegal.

I am not on a crusade to illegalize porn or shut down the strip bars. I wouldn't be in favor of illegalizing any sin with the exception of abortion and the death penalty. I am participating in an internet messageboard discussion, I have accused no one of sinful behavior in fact I have gone out of my way to try and be diplomatic. (for the most part)
Michelle

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

You asked a question. I answered. The response was for christians in general, not you in particular. I modified the post to indicate that.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Okey dokey then, fair enough.

Michelle

 

[KCDAD]

I care about what christians do when they think something is sin.

I care about crusades to stamp out porn. Because it is so healthy...

I care about attempts to shut down topless bars. Because they are entertainment...

If christians don't like sin, they should just not do it. But leave the rest of us, who do not believe in your concept of sin, alone. They shouldn't be concerned about people like you around their children; you wouldn't offer them money for sex, right?

Note that I am not talking about real crimes, such as murder, rape, assault, etc. Nearly everyone agrees those should be prohibited.Real crimes, like prostitution and pandering...

I am talking about the things that only religious people think should be illegal.

Like murder, assault, etc... These are only illegal because some religious person thought human life was sacred... those crimes are only crimes against people... but you knew that, right?

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Because it is so healthy...

Health is in the eye of the beholder. It certainly causes me no problems.

If you are talking about so-called "porn addition", is that the fault of porn or of people who have no self-control? Do you blame food because people overeat and get obese?

Because they are entertainment...

Actually, they don't do anything for me, because I don't drink and look-but-dont-touch is boring. But yes, some people find them entertaining, and it's not your place to tell them they can't have such entertainment.

They shouldn't be concerned about people like you around their children; you wouldn't offer them money for sex, right?

Why does everybody keep bringing children into a discussion that has nothing to do with children? It wouldn't be to inflame things, would it? When have you ever heard me say anything about children in relation to sex? When have you heard anyone mention kiddy porn in a discussion about porn, unless it was someone on the anti-porn side?

We are perfectly okay with kiddy porn being illegal. We agree it should be. But it has nothing to do with regular porn.

Real crimes, like prostitution

Really made up crimes like prostitution.

So you want to start that up again. In that entire "legislating morality" thread, was any "victim" of prostitution ever able to come up with an example of harm that wasn't self-inflicted?

Did or did not BlondieLashes admit that she got into prostitution willingly? If it was harming her, why didn't she quit?

Like murder, assault, etc... These are only illegal because some religious person thought human life was sacred... those crimes are only crimes against people... but you knew that, right?

You merely think that only religious people feel those are crimes.

You don't think that non-religious people think life is sacred? We care more about life than you do! We don't have some never-never-land afterlife dream world waiting in the wings. Life is all there is.

You can't figure out that killing and hurting people is bad unless some deity tells you?

 

[KCDAD]

Why does everybody keep bringing children into a discussion that has nothing to do with children? It wouldn't be to inflame things, would it? When have you ever heard me say anything about children in relation to sex? When have you heard anyone mention kiddy porn in a discussion about porn, unless it was someone on the anti-porn side?Have you heard anyone mention under aged children... everyone is somebody's child.

Really made up crimes like prostitution. All crimes are "made up".

So you want to start that up again. In that entire "legislating morality" thread, was any "victim" of prostitution ever able to come up with an example of harm that wasn't self-inflicted? Oh, self inflicted isn't harm, then?

Did or did not BlondieLashes admit that she got into prostitution willingly? If it was harming her, why didn't she quit?She did.

You merely think that only religious people feel those are crimes. It takes a sense of the sanctity (read sacredness) of human life to protect it legally...

You don't think that non-religious people think life is sacred? That's the definition of religious.. sacred and profane... we've been through this. We care more about life than you do! We don't have some never-never-land afterlife dream world waiting in the wings. Life is all there is.

You can't figure out that killing and hurting people is bad unless some deity tells you?

You are getting awfully excited over your misunderstanding of what it means to be religious... being religious does NOT necessarily need a diety or even a person to revere... religion: from wikipedia:

Religion is commonly defined as a group of beliefs concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices, values, institutions, and rituals associated with such belief. It is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system."

Divine is just one aspect, or supernatural another, or sacred, or moral codes... there is no necessity for a diety.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Have you heard anyone mention under aged children... everyone is somebody's child.

This is your argument? Children do many things that parents don't want them to do, including things that are legal and things that are not.

Your "They shouldn't be concerned about people like you around their children; you wouldn't offer them money for sex, right?" comment indicates you are under the impression that I approach women to entice them to have sex for hire, when they are not inclined to do so.

Why would I do that when there are agencies for that purpose? I am not "corrupting" someone who isn't already corrupted. They signed up for the job.

Oh, self inflicted isn't harm, then?

Did I say it wasn't? I just don't think it is the fault of the thing that they harmed themselves with.

Hitting yourself over the head with a hammer is self-inflicted harm too, but people don't usually blame the hammer.

Well, I guess there are those people who sue tool companies for injuring themselves with tools that any idiot can use, but even that usually isn't done deliberately. It's the result of brain damage.

The anti-porn, anti-prostitution crowd claims that every single person who comes in contact with these things is harmed, but they don't have evidence of that.

She did.

Yes, she did quit eventually. I meant quit the instant she felt she was being harmed, as opposed to staying with it anyway until the harm got worse. Do you think all this severe harm hit all at once without warning? She did it for years, and I got the impression that the disassociation or whatever it was happened early on.

Not only was she into prostitution, but porn and stripping. Seems like she was really dedicated in her desire to harm herself.

And in the end, she claimed all of the harm was to her soul, which I don't even believe exists.

Perhaps it was like Linda Lovelace, who found jesus after her career was over and then decided she had been harmed retroactively.

You are getting awfully excited over your misunderstanding of what it means to be religious... being religious does NOT necessarily need a diety or even a person to revere...

So you are saying that your moral code didn't come from the bible and the bible did not come from god?

We can get wrapped around the axle about semantics if you want. I don't really care about the meaning of "sacred" or "religious".

The point is that I care just as much about human life as you do, if not more, and I am just as much against killing and assaulting another person as you are.

The difference is that I don't feel the need to prevent people from doing things to themselves, even if they cause harm. Especially when there is disagreement about the harm that is caused. This is a free country, after all.

BTW, can you go back to responding in the old way? Inserting the colored text in my quotes is very difficult to respond to. When I hit the quote button, most of your text does not appear and I have to manually copy it. Is it a form of punishment for arguing with you?

 

[Misty Minister]

Would you be referencing lust on the basis of non-Theists definition of that word or Theists?

ETA: Upon further reading, I see where you qualify it as anything not prohibited in Leviticus, but that would still be vague. Especially considering that this is a Christian forum and such a statement doesn't also consider Matt 5:28; which I see has been attempted to mock in the thread with a woman lusting after women misrepresentation.

Did you even look at my faith Icon? There are over 5000 different Christian sects. I will not even step into the types of churches that have statues with candles in front of them lining the walls.
Letting Matt 5:28 say what it says is not mocking it. Changing it to fit your assumptions about what it should say IS MOCKING GOD.

 

[Misty Minister]

Health is in the eye of the beholder. It certainly causes me no problems.

If you are talking about so-called "porn addition", is that the fault of porn or of people who have no self-control? Do you blame food because people overeat and get obese?

Actually, they don't do anything for me, because I don't drink and look-but-dont-touch is boring. But yes, some people find them entertaining, and it's not your place to tell them they can't have such entertainment.

Why does everybody keep bringing children into a discussion that has nothing to do with children? It wouldn't be to inflame things, would it? When have you ever heard me say anything about children in relation to sex? When have you heard anyone mention kiddy porn in a discussion about porn, unless it was someone on the anti-porn side?

We are perfectly okay with kiddy porn being illegal. We agree it should be. But it has nothing to do with regular porn.

Really made up crimes like prostitution.

So you want to start that up again. In that entire "legislating morality" thread, was any "victim" of prostitution ever able to come up with an example of harm that wasn't self-inflicted?

Did or did not BlondieLashes admit that she got into prostitution willingly? If it was harming her, why didn't she quit?

You merely think that only religious people feel those are crimes.

You don't think that non-religious people think life is sacred? We care more about life than you do! We don't have some never-never-land afterlife dream world waiting in the wings. Life is all there is.

You can't figure out that killing and hurting people is bad unless some deity tells you?

Porn is trouble for people and society. If you don't believe it look at the mens porn addiction thread.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Porn is trouble for people and society. If you don't believe it look at the mens porn addiction thread.

Right, look at the laughable "problem" cases, which are most likely caused by sexual repression in the first place. Completely ignore the millions of people who don't have problems with porn and therefore don't whine about it.