Is non-resistance biblical?

[Walter Kovacs]

Not really. But at any rate, Christ gave his commands to His personal disciples, not nations. A policy of non-violence or no retaliation would result in anarchy. Remember to keep Christs words in context.

 

[new_wine]

But of course it is beside your point.

If you admit killing is violence then your argument vanishes.

Luke 5:39

Whether killing is violent is beside the point.

 

[new_wine]

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

That does not say that a man lay down the lives of others, but himself.

So says The King.

Can anyone preaching a message of non-resistance honestly tell me they would allow harm to come to a loved one when violence could have saved them? I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I failed to protect a loved one. Didn't God command the Israelites to go to war?

Personally, I carry a gun with me most every day for personal defense. I work on large weapon systems for a living, so feeling guilt over protecting myself through violence (if needed) would be a bit silly. Ironically, God lead me to this job through some pretty impossible circumstances. Funny how that works...

 

[Zebra1552]

But of course it is beside your point.

If you admit killing is violence then your argument vanishes.

Luke 5:39

No, actually, it doesn't. Actively seeking to kill others is a far cry from what self defense is. Until you have an actual verse that condemns violence, you have no argument yourself.

 

[new_wine]

Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Those that would kill or harm others instead of sacrificing their own selves are ones that place faith in violence. And whatever a man places faith into, that he will have.

No, actually, it doesn't. Actively seeking to kill others is a far cry from what self defense is. Until you have an actual verse that condemns violence, you have no argument yourself.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

Psalm 137:9

"9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
and dashes them against the rock!"

Context matters. Out of context proof-texts aren't cool.

 

[EBR]

Interesting. What do you think of Christ's instruction to love our enemies? Kinda hard to bomb them and love them at the same time...no?

CC

*Assuming loving = not willing to harm*

If a neighbor (or friend/family) was threatened by an enemy, and you do nothing, wouldn't you be loving an enemy at the expense of loving your neighbor? In this case you are forced to choose between two wrongs. You may as well go with the option that is most beneficial, and eliminate the enemy.

Take another example. It's 1946 and you come across a Nazi soldier about to execute a group of Jews. You are armed with the family hunting rifle, and could easily kill the Nazi to save the Jews. If you do nothing, they will be killed. You are in a position where you essentially choose who will die. Do you show a lack of love for the Nazi, or a lack of love for the group of Jews. There is no "good" option. Either way, you are guilty, so you may as well save the innocent.

Sadly, live isn't simple enough to where non violence is universally good. Sometimes non violence can be a greater evil.

 

[Zebra1552]

Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Those that would kill or harm others instead of sacrificing their own selves are ones that place faith in violence. And whatever a man places faith into, that he will have.

That verse has to do with loving violence, not using it when necessary to protect people. It was written by King David, who used violence for just that purpose- to protect people. Go ahead and rip another verse out of context for me, I'll be glad to place it back in context for you.

 

[callmeMurph]

Can someone give me an example of where Christ or any of the disciples advocate or use self-dense? Obviously Peter is an example, but Christ rebuke's him after he cuts off the guard's ear.

 

[callmeMurph]

That's just slavery and servitude. A way of controling people and repressing them by using God. Shutting up people who suffer because of other people's faults.

Slavery and servitude are pretty bad, but what do you make of Paul's comments to slaves.

 

[callmeMurph]

SSlapping someone across the cheek was a huuuuuge insult in that time period...

I agree that turning the other cheek is in response to an insult...but as far as an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth I think it covers more than just insults.

39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

It seems to me that it is saying "but do not resist the one who is evil." and then goes on to give examples of not resisting in various situations. The first example applies to insults but I don't know if you can say they all do.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

I agree that turning the other cheek is in response to an insult...but as far as an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth I think it covers more than just insults.

It's one of Christs many additions/qualifications to the law.

 

[Zebra1552]

Can someone give me an example of where Christ or any of the disciples advocate or use self-dense? Obviously Peter is an example, but Christ rebuke's him after he cuts off the guard's ear.

Once again, Jesus was supposed to die for the sins of mankind. Christ can't do that if He doesn't get taken as He is supposed to, and Peter can't establish a church body without, you know, being free and not in prison. Horrid example.

Why should something need to be condoned in the Bible to be okay? There are many things that we generally consider okay that are never even mentioned in the Bible. Using a computer, for instance.

 

[callmeMurph]

Once again, Jesus was supposed to die for the sins of mankind. Christ can't do that if He doesn't get taken as He is supposed to, and Peter can't establish a church body without, you know, being free and not in prison. Horrid example.

Why should something need to be condoned in the Bible to be okay? There are many things that we generally consider okay that are never even mentioned in the Bible. Using a computer, for instance.

It doesn't need to be condoned in the Bible to be OK, but there are many passages that seem to indicate that you should love your neighbor and very few, especially in the NT, that support violence.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

Yes. Violence is not a good thing. But sometimes it's necessary. There are always consequences; IE David was forbidden from building the Temple because there was too much blood on his hands, and yet he was a man after God's own heart.

 

[callmeMurph]

Yes. Violence is not a good thing. But sometimes it's necessary. There are always consequences; IE David was forbidden from building the Temple because there was too much blood on his hands, and yet he was a man after God's own heart.

All that tells me is that David and God had a good relationship, doesn't mean he liked any of the violence.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

Correct, which is why I said, violence is not a good thing.

 

[Zebra1552]

It doesn't need to be condoned in the Bible to be OK, but there are many passages that seem to indicate that you should love your neighbor and very few, especially in the NT, that support violence.

That does not mean that God expects us to never use violence as some here have claimed. It means it should be a last resort.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

non-resistance = non resistance to evil with evil. Using evil means like the killing of other people to bring about results you consider to be good.

 

[callmeMurph]

non-resistance = non resistance to evil with evil. Using evil means like the killing of other people to bring about results you consider to be good.

You're at a packed fast food restaurant (30+ people) and a gunman walks in, shoots 4 people, and says he is going to kill everyone. What do you do?

1 - Pull out your pistol and shoot to kill
2 - Pull out your pistol and shoot to wound (so you can disarm him)
3 - Find the nearest weapon and attack him
4 - Try to tackle him and wrestle away the gun
5 - Try to talk him out of it
6 - Run away
7 - Pray

Are any of these responses wrong for a Christian?