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Is non-resistance biblical?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by callmeMurph, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. Harry3142

    Harry3142 Regular Member

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    Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King,Jr. are two examples of nonviolent resistance leaders who accomplished a great deal.
     
  2. Jaws13

    Jaws13 Urban Nomad. Literally.

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    Explain why it matters that God has a hand in the laws we've created and that killing isn't the same as murdering? Seriously? It matters because it changes when it's acceptable, if ever, to kill and therefore whether nonresistance is biblical.
     
  3. callmeMurph

    callmeMurph BGTF

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    So are you saying that every law is ordained by God and therefore should be followed as if God give it to us?
     
  4. Jaws13

    Jaws13 Urban Nomad. Literally.

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    No. I'm saying that which separates murder and killing has been present in laws around the world since the Decalogue and the law we have today isn't much different from the Law of the OT and when it was acceptable to kill people or unacceptable making it murder. If it doesn't conflict, why bicker about it?
     
  5. The Outlier

    The Outlier Regular Member

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    It depends on whether or not its self-defense and your definition of self defense. The "turn the other cheek" passage isn't saying not to defend yourself. Its saying to go the extra mile to forgive and to help those who hurt you.

    Also, the civil law in Israel was only for Israel. Its not for us. The moral law never changed; the civil and ceremonial law did.

    Obeying authority is very biblical, with the stipulation that we must not do anything immoral.
     
  6. callmeMurph

    callmeMurph BGTF

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    Ok, but where does forgiveness end? Is it possible to forgive someone and shoot them in self-defense?
     
  7. Bollweevil

    Bollweevil Newbie

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    Very good reading or listening if you use audio books like I do. Also "What I Believe" by Tolstoy is good. You can listen to both of these through Librovox website or app.
    It's not a matter of opinion or choice. God has been clear regarding this issue and if we choose to follow Jesus then it doesn't matter what we think or desire, the decision has been made for us. We are to regard others as more important than ourself. We are to love our enemies, do good to those who hate us. We are to follow Jesus' principles as when he was reviled, abused, falsely accused, & murdered yet did not revile in return, did not sin, spoke no deceit, and uttered no threats. Jesus is our example as He suffered therefore we should be prepared to suffer. We are not to return evil for evil. We are to sacrifice our life by turning the other cheek, allowing others to sue us to take our possessions and voluntary give them more than they request without retaliation, allow people to force us to do something and we not only oblige them yet do even more than what they request. We are to LOVE our enemies. All of these things are backed by biblical scripture, not man's thoughts and desires. Justifiable harm has no foundation in scripture. The principles of Jesus are clear and do not come close to justifiable harm, physical defense, or retaliation.

    We know God forgives us to the extent that we forgive others, Matthew 6:14-15. God's love for us is unconditional regardless of the wrong we commit against Him, Romans 5:8. The theme of love is prevalent in the NT through Jesus' principles. There's no getting around God's expectations of His people towards others especially those we may judge as unworthy of our kindness, love, and forgiveness, Matthew 22:39, Matthew 25:34-46, Luke 6:27-28. We are not to judge the value or worthiness of others, Luke 6:37-38.

    Romans 12:19-21 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but [p]leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    It's not a matter of opinion or choice. God has been clear regarding this issue and if we choose to follow Jesus then it doesn't matter what we think or desire, the decision has been made for us. We are to regard others as more important than ourself, Philippians 2:1-8. We are to love our enemies, do good to those who hate us.

    We are to follow Jesus' principles as when he was reviled, abused, falsely accused, & murdered yet did not revile in return, did not sin, spoke no deceit, and uttered no threats. Jesus is our example as He suffered therefore we should be prepared to suffer.

    1 Thessalonians 5:12-22 But we request of you, brethren, that you [i]appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you [j]instruction, 13 and that you esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Live in peace with one another. 14 We urge you, brethren, admonish the [k]unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15 See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people. 16 Rejoice always; 17 pray without ceasing; 18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. 19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic [l]utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; 22 abstain from every [m]form of evil.

    Do not treat others with evil even if they treat you evil

    1 Peter 2:18-24 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are [t]unreasonable. 19 For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds [v]favor with God. 21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; 23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 and He Himself [x]bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

    We are to treat others the way we want to be treated, love our enemies. Luke 6:31-36

    We are not to return evil for evil. We are to sacrifice our life by turning the other cheek, allowing others to sue us to take our possessions and voluntary give them more than they request without retaliation, allow people to force us to do something and we not only oblige them yet do even more than what they request. We are to LOVE our enemies. Matthew 5:38-48.

    Make no mistake we are at war and are to fight; yet it is Spiritual, 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Ephesians 6:10-20. 2 Corinthians 10:1-6 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul,who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience; once your obedience is complete

    All of these things are backed by biblical scripture, not man's thoughts and desires. Justifiable harm has no foundation in scripture. So called “Just War Theory” is manmade and completely full of holes when it comes to being valid; even philosophers and experts agree with this. The principles of Jesus are clear and do not come close to justifiable harm, physical defense, or retaliation. If we believe something contrary to this then it comes from man not principles of Jesus.

    Some may site the account of Jesus going into the temple with a whip. This is simply a stretch, there is absolutely no statement or example that Jesus harmed anyone. The whip reasonably would have been used on animals. Jesus' statement to apostles to purchase swords is explained by Jesus in the very next statement: Luke 22:36-38

    And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” Jesus references a prophecy from Isaiah 53:12. And again Jesus no where says for anyone to use a sword against anyone. In fact He rebukes Peter when Peter attacks the soldier as they were arresting Jesus, Luke 22:49-51, Matthew 26:51-54.

    And using the Old Testament and Old Law as justifiable examples of war and killing is not at all applicable to Christians on how to live our lives as Jesus established a New Law and fulfilled the New Covenant which was not the Mosaic or Prophet's Covenant, Hebrews1:1-2, Mark 9:2-8. Our life as Christians is not founded upon the Old Law: physical circumcision, animal and grain sacrifices, sanctuary cities for criminals, observing the sabbath, the Levites have a higher standing, stoning disobedient children, leaving the corners of your grain fields for the poor, cannot eat rabbits, hogs; no fish without fins and scales; can't eat eagles, vultures, buzzards, kites, falcons, ravens, ostrich, owls, seagulls, hawks, heron; Leviticus 11. Women offering sacrifices for atonement after childbirth, Leviticus 12. And hundreds of other laws that are not applicable to Christians, including war.

    John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom [k]is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not [l]of this realm.”

    Luke 3:10-14 10 And the crowds were questioning him, saying, “Then what shall we do?” 11 And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.” 12 And some tax collectors also came to be baptized, and they said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” 13 And he said to them, “[d]Collect no more than what you have been ordered to.” 14 Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.”

    Again a valid argument cannot be made from something not said. John did not say to commit violence and many versions of situations in the Bible do not account exactly the same things said and done. It is fallacious to reason a point based upon an assumption of something not said. This also applies to Cornelius and Jesus telling the disciples to buy swords.


    The foundation of Jesus' principles is love which culminated in his unjustifiable murder and forgiveness of His killers for all of man who are unworthy of His sacrifice. My encouragement is to maintain patience with your beliefs and truly know why you believe what you believe. It took me several months to realize this unconditional love God expects from us and then about 15 years of deep study to better understand God's ultimate message. Jesus' principles are my guide. If it were up to me I would not want to exhibit unconditional love and forgiveness to my enemies, it's just not in my nature; however I have chosen to follow Jesus. It’s like Paul said he has a constant battle within him between the spirit and flesh. What we naturally want is not necessarily what God has instructed as what He expects from us. I hope you come to the same decision through meditation and study. God bless.
     
  8. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Taking what Jesus intended to be metaphorical as literal might have lead some chrisrtians and one Church Father, Origen to castrate themselves.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Origen - Credit: wikicommons
     
  9. FundyJohn

    FundyJohn A friendly Fundy.

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    Violence is never an appropriate response for a Christian. Even if death is the result of refusing to respond violently.
     
  10. Gluttonous Winebibber

    Gluttonous Winebibber New Member

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    Matthew 5:39 because Deuteronomy 32:35 or else Matthew 26:52
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
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