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At the same time, I am in my freedom to dine with friends, and enjoy a drink, without fearing that I may be seen sipping. Jesus was indeed a stumbling block, a rock of offense. It is also to be noted, that Paul allowed his church, to dine in pagan temples, and eat unclean idol food, and though it could stumble a new convert, the church was allowed to eat there. So again, good to be prudent, especially if there are problems with alcohol, and the stumbling weaker person, but the whole church can't be controlled because of one who stumbles to easily, better to educate that young man or woman. SS.
But in godly love the whole church does lay down its own life for the good of all ..
or it is supposed to..
i mean really..what loss is it to abstain for the good of another..and what is gainef by clinging to my right to enjoy..(endulge self)..really .what eternal value does it have? If i gain here i lose it in heaven..is i save my earthly life i lose my heavenly life..
so in light of the words of the lord Jesus ..it is best to seek my brothers edification before my own desire .
Paul agreed as he declared it better to go without then to offend..
love must dictate everything we do.and love does not seek its own..
Source, is the wine you partake of NEW, as the topic of this thread?
Instead of just, 'I'm gonna do what I wanna do.
How far does it go? What if the weak person in a church, asks everyone if they have a drink at home with dinner, and alot say they do, answering his question. Now what? Do they all have to not have a drink at home, all because of one person? One person can control everyone, what if he stumbles over gambling, or certain movies, boxing, there are a host of things one could stumble over, by all rights, he could control a whole church, simply by saying he stumbles over everything. Do you not see my point? SS.
If applied to alcohol, it wouldn't mean that we couldn't drink, at all. It just means that we shouldn't drink around them.care more about not offending your brother or sister .. then your right to drink alcohol.
it is the way of the world to say "its my right"..it is the way of the lord to say .... if it offends you my beloved brother and sister ..then i shall not do it .
love does not seek its own
How in the world do you get getting drunk out of what I said? As for Purim, it is wine about five cups if I remember right during a meal spread out over time.
When it comes to drinking on Purim, the Talmud clearly understood what the scroll of Esther (the Megillah) was all about. In practically every chapter of the Megillah, someone is imbibing heavily at a drinking party. And the scroll concludes with Mordecai's instruction to the entire Jewish people to celebrate these days as "yemei mishteh v'simchah, days of drinking and rejoicing" (Esther 9:22).
An ambiguous law like that, however, would not be left unqualified by the rabbis. On Passover, precise amounts are defined so that one may fulfill the obligations of eating matzah and drinking the four cups of wine. So one might expect that the rabbis would define "days of drinking" in terms of the volume of wine or the number of hours one would be obligated to drink.
The rabbis of the Talmud paid close attention to the nature of the obligation. On Passover, the four cups of wine are for joy and for sanctification, but they also have symbolic associations with the expressions that God used for Israel's redemption. On Purim, however, the wine (or liquor) is not symbolic. It is functional. Consequently, the nature of the obligation is not defined by volume, but rather, by the effect upon the drinker.
How Drunk Is Drunk?
"Rava said: It is one's duty levasumei, to make oneself fragrant [with wine] on Purim until one cannot tell the difference between 'arur Haman' (cursed be Haman) and 'barukh Mordekhai' (blessed be Mordecai)" (Babylonian Talmud, Megillah 7b).
Do all over the age of 13 get all five 8ounce cups? Girls and boys both?
How much time is this spread out over in one meal?
in my small congregation i know of two who have had their past lives (and families) ravaged by alcoholism and it would be greatly remiss to flaunt my own liberty in their face
of course i see your point ..
im just saying we should never try to protect our own rights to liberty ..we should esteem the other as more important then self .
in the extreme sense . how far does it go ..?
to the cross ..
Fresh wine as it's fermenting out gasses. If you put new wine that's still out gassing in an old wine skin the wine skins that are brittle would burst.
After the wine has fully matured it no longer out gasses, and can be safely stored in an older wine skin.
I wonder how many Christians view the wine/juice decision as something that could endanger their salvation?
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