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Featured is my infant baptism enough?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Someone told you you would enter rest without lifting a finger. And you believed it.

    When the text says today, if you hear God's call, do not be like the Israelites' who wouldn't take a risk. Instead obey God, like Abraham, like Christ.

    The expression : Don't believe in the person who teaches free lunches exist, needs another read.
     
  2. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    And someone told you that your eyes would be opened and you would be like God and you believed it. However, if you think you can wash your own sins away and become holy through your own efforts, that's your choice and I do wish you luck accomplishing such a feat. As for me, I'll continue putting my trust in Jesus and the blessed assurance of *his* righteousness to be my mediator and high priest. :)
     
  3. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    I mean Luther told you you would enter rest without lifting a finger and you believed it?

    The text says, Today if you hear His voice do not be like those in the wilderness, of whom God said, they will never enter my rest.

    So today if you hear His voice you are going to harden your heart and persist with Luther's Kool-aid?
     
  4. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Yes, one is justified...proclaimed "not guilty"...without ever having to lift a finger. We only need to surrender ourselves to Christ and put our full trust in him. Good works come later as the Holy Spirit works within us and begins the process of transforming us. Even then, they are not *our* works, but God's works through us.

    I hear and experience God every day as I continue building a relationship with him. Might I recommend a book to you that might help you in recognizing his presence and building your own stronger relationship. It's a short little book written by a Carmelite lay monk in the 17th century who took the name Brother Lawrence. The book is The Practice of the Presence of God.

    God is not looking for all the possible ways to condemn us. He loves us and wants us very much to be with him, and yes, we will very much desire to do good things for him and for others, but not because we need to do those things to be saved. We are *already* saved if we have put our trust in Jesus, and we have that assurance because Jesus has promised it to us and he does not speak lies. We do those things simply because we love God and allow him do his work in us and transform us.

    If you are trying to earn your justification through your own good works, you will *never* succeed, and you won't have life because you are already dead in sin that you cannot cleanse from yourself. Please allow Jesus to take that burden from you. It's the entire reason he sacrificed himself for us on the cross.
     
  5. Wordkeeper

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    God required israel to obey in the wilderness. He says He requires you to obey similarly today when you hear His voice and not be like the disbelieving Israelites.

    Two points.

    1. Why would He change His method?

    2. What makes you avoid the teaching? It's there, its clear, so what's the problem?

    Matthew 22:10-14
    10“Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

    11“But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless. 13“Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14“For many are called, but few are chosen.”
     
  6. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    The man who came to the dinner without the wedding clothes refused to accept them when he was given them upon his arrival, just like people who reject Jesus's free gift of grace when it is offered to them. Do not be like that man. Take the clean clothes Jesus offers rather than trying to make do with your own soiled ones.
     
  7. Wordkeeper

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    Jesus picked up his cross daily, preached a counterintuitive message, that when you give up caring about yourself and care for others, God gives you His Kingdom and the rest was added on as well.

    At the wedding feast, the Cross, the eponymous act of picking up the Cross, the magnum opus, He did the ultimate demonstration of His teaching. He lay down His life for humankind, and God again gave Him the Kingdom and life as well.

    You too should come to the wedding feast appropriately clothed, because you claim baptism into the ultimate work . Don't come breaking the dress code.

    As for consequences. Luther tells you the item is free, and you get stopped at the store entrance. You get arrested

    The text tells you that the item is to be paid for with living faith confirmed by works. You obey God when He calls, work, act. You show your payment at the store entrance. You get a refund.

    Which mistaken situation do you want to be in?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  8. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    I wish you well in your struggle.
     
  9. Wordkeeper

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    Thanks. God bless you too, by leading you to check the context of the scripture used to support sola fide.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  10. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Ok, thank you. I personally think baptism is a method to make person a disciple of Jesus. I think so because of this:

    Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
    Mat. 28:19-20

    That is why, when person is baptized one time disciple of Jesus, there is no good reason to take another baptism for the same thing.

    More important would be to remain in words of Jesus, because:

    Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
    John 8:31-32
     
  11. Wordkeeper

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    Okay, lets put some real life context to this topic.

    What do you believe made Paul think the Ephesian believers were clue less?

    What do you believe made God turn away the false believers in Matthew 7:23?

    BTW, many people claim to be disciples, but only a few chosen ones really are.
     
  12. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    No one had taught them the things Paul taught.

    Are you a disciple of Jesus?
     
  13. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Interesting, for some reason this didn’t show in my last post, so here it is again:

    I think the reason is this:


    Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    Matt. 721
     
  14. Wordkeeper

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    What is the will of the Father in Heaven?
    How will baptism help?

    It would be false pride if I said yes:

    Luke 14:33
    33"So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

    Of course if this was taught in churches , they would all become empty.

    Acts 5:13
    13But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem.

    The terms and conditions of the New Covenant are very tough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I have understood it is that we love others as ourselves.

    Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
    Matt. 22:37-40

    According to the Bible, love God means we keep his commandments and so, all the law is actually in that we love others as ourselves.

    For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
    1 John 5:3

    I believe baptism is the way how person is made a disciple of Jesus (“Chistian”).

    Did you know that “Christian” originally means a disciple of Jesus?


    When he found him, he brought him to Antioch, and for a whole year they were guests of the church and taught a large crowd. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.

    Acts 11:26
     
  16. Wordkeeper

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    So the false believers did not love God or their fellow human beings? Didn't they help people who were demon possessed, did good works, not just paid lip service? And didn't they give God credit?


    Baptism doesn't make a believer sell all he has and follow Christ, which is the Way prescribed in Scripture.



    That would be Barnabas and Paul, who deserved the label, because they sold everything they had and followed Christ. And misused by later believers to mean ordinary believers who had not done the will of God.
     
  17. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    I only know what the Bible tells.

    I agree with that. Baptism is what person takes, to become a disciple of Jesus. But as Jesus says, true disciples of Jesus are those who remain in his words.


    Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

    John 8:31-32

    I tried to find the scripture that tells person must sell everything to be a disciple of Jesus, but I didn’t find it. Could you please show that scripture?
     
  18. Wordkeeper

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    They helped demon possessed people, AKA loved people by serving them. They did it in God's name, Also Known As LOVING GOD.

    Actually, turning from Mammon to serving God is what makes true disciples:


    Luke 14:33

    33So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.


    Sometimes things are difficult to find when they are under your nose.



    And the words to remain in are Luke 14:33.


    See above.
     
  19. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

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    A Baptist would say yes. A Presbyterian would say no.
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    Unfortunately, Bible doesn’t say they did those things because of love.

    That seems to be on context where people were able to actually go and follow Jesus on earth. Nowadays Jesus is not on earth and therefore it is quite difficult to literally do that, all though it is possible to give up all possessions. It would be different, if Jesus would be on earth and you could go with him.

    But the mammon or God question is still valid. Disciples of Jesus should not keep mammon as their God. But I think owning place where one can live is not necessary same as serving mammon. Serving mammon would be, if the possessions rule what you do or what one thinks is good and right.

    After Jesus had resurrected, disciples had right to own things, as this following scripture shows.

    While you kept it, didn't it remain your own? After it was sold, wasn't it in your power? How is it that you have conceived this thing in your heart? You haven't lied to men, but to God."
    Acts 5:4
     
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