Is Jesus the only one who can pay for our sins?

[Fish14]

I asked this:
"Did Paul lie when he wrote:
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. 2 Cor 5

Or the writer of Hebrews:
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. 2:9

Where does the Bible limit His death to only "some", however that might be phrased?"

Matt. 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

How does Matt 25 relate to the context of John 10? If your view was correct, why didn't Jesus mention that those He described as "not My sheep" in John 10:26 - "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep" were goats instead of sheep.

Jesus told them they weren't His sheep. That is true even if they were goats. If you say to a dog, "you are not my sheep", it's true.

Your view also has the problem that in John 10, Jesus described "My sheep", "other of My sheep" as well as those who were "not My sheep". iow, in John 10, the ENTIRE discussion was about His sheep and not His sheep.

My sheep = sheep of Israel
Other of My sheep = Gentile sheep
not My sheep = goats

btw, the phrase "THE sheep" occurs 9 times in John 10. And He said plainly that He would lay down His life for THE sheep. All the while noting those who were His sheep, and those who weren't His sheep. But there is NO mention of goats in that chapter.

So Matt 25 goats has NO relevance to the sheep in John 10.

I agree that Jesus laid His life for all the sheep, but "not My sheep" is not the same as "somebody else's sheep".

Somehow?? He died on the cross for everyone. Rather obvious.


Right. But the point is that He died for all.

His death did not atone for the sins of the goats, but He still "died for all" (2 Cor. 5:15, ...).[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

Matt. 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

When one encounters the word "many" in reference to whom Christ died for, the word means "the masses", not "less then everyone", which seems to be the way Calvinists prefer to understand it.

Jesus told them they weren't His sheep. That is true even if they were goats.

Since there was no mention of goats in John 10, let's just keep the goats out of this discussion. The CLEAR point is that Jesus said He would lay down His life for THE sheep, all the while noting there were "My sheep", "other sheep of Mine" and those "not of My sheep".

If His intent was to die ONLY for "My sheep", He would have said so, and plainly.

He died for ALL of the sheep.

If you say to a dog, "you are not my sheep", it's true.

Irrelevant.

My sheep = sheep of Israel
Other of My sheep = Gentile sheep

So far, true.

not My sheep = goats

Nope. There is no way to make that conclusion from John 10.

I agree that Jesus laid His life for all the sheep, but "not My sheep" is not the same as "somebody else's sheep".

The Bible doesn't say that all unbelievers are the devil's. So your point is irrelevant.

His death did not atone for the sins of the goats, but He still "died for all" (2 Cor. 5:15, ...).

No, that's not what John 10 says. He died for THE sheep. That would account for His own sheep and those who were not His sheep.

 

[bling]

God is also a God of Justice. Yes? Our sins had to be paid for, somehow, someway.
The ONLY person qualified was Jesus Christ, God in the flesh paying the penalty for us. I don't think you would disagree with that.

I fully disagree with everything excepts of: “God being just” and “Jesus is the only one qualified”.

The how, who and what way the ransom payment took place is hugely important and needs to be understood by us especially if we have a part to play.

Fully agree: Jesus is the only one qualified to be the huge ransom payment, but an intangible like sin or death is not the one taking the payment.

“God in the flesh paying the penalty for us” is penal substitution and that is totally unjust (the punishing of even a willing innocent person to allow the guilty to go free is totally unjust) and has lots of other problems.

Paul (and I suggest all of us) said he was “crucified with Christ” and not “Christ was crucified instead of me”.

You state : "If they were "paid for" then they do not have to be forgiven and if they are forgiven they cannot also be paid for?"

Then how is the following possible:
Acts2:
[23] Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God by His own "determinate counsel and foreknowledge" at the appointed time sent Jesus Christ to die for our sins. YET, by "wicked hands" was He crucified. (those that crucified Christ are GUILTY)

Just because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for His peoples sins long ago, and in God's own mind the account is settled does not preclude us asking for forgiveness when we commit sin.

God knows the end from the beginning, yet He STILL wants us to pray. He forgave my sin on the cross, yet He also wants me to ask for forgiveness when I sin, so that's what I will do.

Isaiah 46:
[9] Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
[10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God can know all our free will choices throughout time but that does not mean they are not free will choices.

You say: “in God's own mind the account is settled does not preclude us asking for forgiveness when we commit sin.”

This sounds like God is not forgiving our sins since the account is settled and our asking for forgiveness is more just a formality and in keep with the commands and examples to ask for forgiveness?

So do you believe the sins were paid for and not forgiven?

The question remains either your sins were paid for to God or forgiven by God and not both. There was a huge ransom payment of Christ’s being tortured, humiliated and murdered and in that way we were bought, but who is this unworthy kidnapper being paid off since God is not unworthy of any sacrifice? If God is not taking the payment directly (and who would think God is blood thirty enough to take satisfaction from Christ’s crucifixion), than God must forgive our sins and you still have a payment being made to someone else, but satan should not be paid, so who?

 

[EmSw]

Jesus paid it all, but one must first accept this free gift, it's in the blood, His blood washes us clean. If someone does not accept that free gift of salvation they will burn in hell for all eternity.

With the law they had to continuously sacrifice an animal and it only covered the sins, it never really removed them. Jesus IS the lamb the perfect sacrifice that is enough! It frees us from ALL sins forever!

Nobody but Jesus Christ could have paid that debt, it took someone that had no sin, to take on our sins at the cross to make atonement and only Christ was worthy to do so.

The truth is that Jesus is the only One who could forgive that debt. Jesus could never pay the debt, for the debt is eternal death, unless you think Jesus is dead today. Besides, Jesus is Life, and death has no power over Life.

So we must ask, how is the debt remitted? Here's where we must turn to the word 'forgive'. Strong's says this about forgiveness -

1. release from bondage or imprisonment
2. forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

The remission or pardon of of the penalty of sin, is accomplished through forgiveness. This involves no death, no blood, and no suffering on anyone's part.

However, most people have been taught to accept a human sacrifice (an abomination to God) for their sins. Some will shout this abomination from the mountain tops. This abomination is the foundation of many beliefs. When you build upon an abomination, everything built is faulty and a disgrace to God.

The pardon of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), comes when man truly repents of his sins, turns from his sins, and turns to God.

No words were ever truer than these -

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

 

[EmSw]

JESUS was the sacrifice. He paid it all.

You didn't read a word I wrote, did you? Human sacrifice seems to be to your liking.

Do you really love your Jesus? And in the same breath, you want to sacrifice Him and commit an abomination to God. Amazing!

 

[EmSw]

Why yes I did read your post and I shook my head at it, I just didn't know how to reply because it's so ridiculous. I have heard a lot of weird stuff but I have never ever heard anything like this. Sure I have heard the whole atheist questioning about why did Jesus have to die? why did He commit suicide? etc etc but I have never heard of this whole calling Jesus' perfect sacrifice an abomination. (and no I don't call Jesus' death a suicide but more so an atonement for mankinds sins) ---

Why shake your head? Do you not believe what forgiveness is? Do you not believe we repent for forgiveness? Do you not believe Jesus when He said unless you repent you will perish?

I didn't say He committed suicide. I said human sacrifice is an abomination to God, and you are wanting an abomination (which God hates) to save you.

Jeremiah 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.’

Deuteronomy 12
30 take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’
31 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.

Human sacrifices were how the nations served their gods. God tells us NOT to follow them. We are not to do likewise. The pagan nations committed human sacrifice, and God strictly forbid it. It was an abomination to Him. Only animals were sacrificed and accepted by God.

Perhaps you should read up on abominations to God. Doing them ignorantly is no excuse. And I can assure you, no abomination will save you.

I feel like you're treading in deep waters, to deny what the Son has gone through is to essentially deny Him, His deity, His very being, and to say that His atonement was not enough. Without the Son there is no Father, so I would implore you to seek the Son for your questions and concerns, and earnestly read the Word.

Oh, I'm not denying the Son, nor His diety. Atonement was not accomplished by an abomination to God. If you earnestly read the Word, you would know this.

Read from Genesis to Revelations again and again, it clearly outlines since the LITERAL beginning that Christ was to die and be sacrificed for our sins! Yes God abhors human sacrifices, but Jesus our Lord IS God in the flesh! it took a perfect sacrifice to cleanse us of all iniquity! I think the issue here is your stuck on Jesus being a mere human, when in fact He was fully God and fully man! It literally took God Himself coming to Earth to atone for our sins! I don't have all of the answers, but I do know what the Bible says on this particular subject.

Did you miss the parts on abominations to God, when you read Genesis to Revelation? Nothing in the LITERAL beginning says anything about Jesus dying and being sacrificed for our sins! You have believed what others told you.

Actually, Jesus says the Word cleanses us, not a perfect sacrifice -

John 15:3
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

The disciples were already clean before any supposed 'sacrifice'. Actually, I am stuck on Jesus' words, which many do not believe. Believe me, Jesus was fully God and fully man. And being fully God, I can guarantee, He hated abominations, including human sacrifice.

I usually avoid replying or going into some deep debate, because it causes nothing but trouble. Now if someone was truly interested in something or had a question because they were generally curious okay, but posts that seem to degrade, ridicule, or undermine a viewpoint that is widely accepted and known in the Bible I won't acknowledge.

You can avoid this if you want; many have avoided what I am saying. They has rather commit an abomination to God rather than seeing the truth. The truth only causes trouble if you don't believe it. It is up to you, freely choose to hear, learn, and understand the truth, or go it alone your own way.

Isaiah 66
2 For all those things My hand has made, and all those things exist,” says the Lord. but on this one will I look: on him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word.
3 “He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck; he who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood; he who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol. Just as they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations,

 

[EmSw]

I have not failed in realizing anything, it's you that has failed... I pray that your eyes may be opened, you are truly warped, the devil is good at that.

You keep referencing Christ as if He's a mere man, Christ IS God in the flesh, and the Bible is CLEAR when it says Christ died for our sins. Christ IS the perfect LAMB that WAS slain before the VERY foundation of the world! Genesis - Revelations show that!

Stay with your abomination; it's your choice.

A man in the same bed as another man is an abomination to God. Do you suppose God could have chosen that way to save you? I'm sure it's a putrid thought to you. But, a human sacrifice is a sweet-smelling aroma in your nostrils; so tell me who is warped.

I've already told you, Jesus is the Word from the beginning. He IS God! But it seems you do not know God hates abominations.

Yes, He was slain from the foundation of the world, but it says nothing about our sins. You have added that. Here, let me give you the verse -

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You didn't read a word I wrote, did you? Human sacrifice seems to be to your liking.

Do you really love your Jesus? And in the same breath, you want to sacrifice Him and commit an abomination to God. Amazing!

Your perverted views on sacrifice are refuted by Scripture.

Mark 14:12 - On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Rom 3:25 - God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Now, you've been clear as to your disdain for Paul and his writing.

However, the Bible has your number:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3

 

[FreeGrace2]

Unfortunately that individual needs our prayers, he's really stuck in some cult like bad doctrine, without the death / atonement I dare say salvation isn't possible.

Yes. And 2 Pet 3:15,16 nails the problem.

 

[EmSw]

Isaiah 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. --- Referring to Christ!!!

Bruising and putting to grief were not the way offerings were made. Perhaps you should read up on how offerings were handled.

Deuteronomy 17:1
You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God a bull or sheep which has any blemish or defect, for that is an abomination to the Lord your God.

You sure like abominations to God.

This can't mean a natural sin offering as anything natural can only deal with natural things. Besides, the manner in which a natural sin offering was made has nothing to do with Jesus' death. The guilty party must bring his own animal to be sacrificed. But I'm sure you knew that. What guilty party brought Jesus to the tem Sin is a spiritual disease, and must be dealt with by spiritual means. A spiritual sin offering is a purification from evils and falsities.

Let me give you the details of a sin offering and you tell how many Jesus fulfilled.

Leviticus 4
27 ‘If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally by doing something against any of the commandments of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and is guilty,
28 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, then he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed.
29 And he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and kill the sin offering at the place of the burnt offering.
30 Then the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour all the remaining blood at the base of the altar.
31 He shall remove all its fat, as fat is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offering; and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a sweet aroma to the Lord. So the priest shall make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

32 ‘If he brings a lamb as his sin offering, he shall bring a female without blemish.
33 Then he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and kill it as a sin offering at the place where they kill the burnt offering.
34 The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour all the remaining blood at the base of the altar.
35 He shall remove all its fat, as the fat of the lamb is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offering. Then the priest shall burn it on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire to the Lord. So the priest shall make atonement for his sin that he has committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Go ahead and name the requirements Jesus met for a sin offering. NEVER was a sacrifice or offering hung on a cross, NEVER! The priest took the animal and killed it and removed the fat and burned it on the altar. Did any of this happen to Jesus? So, go ahead and give us the requirements Jesus met. And you gave us the impression you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

PS. Jesus DID NOT pass through the fire like the pagan customs of that day where people threw their babies and children down the statue of baals mouth or upon the arms of baal. Jesus WAS crucified. I am sorry you are not willing to accept His perfect sacrifice, outside of that there is no atonement therefore there is no forgiveness.

It doesn't matter how they were killed, it's still a human sacrifice and an abomination to God. You can close your eyes to this, but it still remains the same.

Unlike you, I believe Jesus when He told us how to be forgiven. It had nothing to do with any sacrifice. It has everything to do with repentance. And yes, there is forgiveness without a sacrifice.

I am not going to accept an abomination to God in order to delight my soul.

 

[EmSw]

Unfortunately that individual needs our prayers, he's really stuck in some cult like bad doctrine, without the death / atonement I dare say salvation isn't possible.

I'm sorry, I don't need your prayers to accept an abomination to God.

You seem to know very little about the salvation Jesus taught. Many, many were saved in the OT without any 'death'. You are so stuck on human sacrifices, you would walk away from Jesus if He were among us today. Why not read how He said to receive eternal life. He NEVER mentioned any sacrifices, nor a cross.

Unfortunately, your 'love' for Jesus is hanging Him on a cross and committing an abomination to God. Why not read how Jesus said to love Him?

 

[EmSw]

Your perverted views on sacrifice are refuted by Scripture.

Oh, I see you are back. I am sure you know very little about sacrifices. What you know would probably fit into an empty pecan shell.

Go read Leviticus 4 and come back to tell what you learn. Then tell us how Jesus met those requirements.

Mark 14:12 - On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

You don't even know what the Passover lamb was for. IT WAS NOT FOR SINS! It was a memorial to the children of Israel, and judgment of Egypt. But don't let the truth get in the way of your human delights.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John wasn't referring to Jesus as the Passover lamb, as this lamb had nothing to do with sins. He was referring to the innocence of Jesus. And sin was taken away through repentance and forgiveness.

Rom 3:25 - God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Now, you've been clear as to your disdain for Paul and his writing.

I don't give credence to one who promotes human sacrifice.

However, the Bible has your number:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3

Maybe you should read up on what others think of 2 Peter.

 

[bling]

Jesus paid it all, but one must first accept this free gift, it's in the blood, His blood washes us clean. If someone does not accept that free gift of salvation they will burn in hell for all eternity.

With the law they had to continuously sacrifice an animal and it only covered the sins, it never really removed them. Jesus IS the lamb the perfect sacrifice that is enough! It frees us from ALL sins forever!

Nobody but Jesus Christ could have paid that debt, it took someone that had no sin, to take on our sins at the cross to make atonement and only Christ was worthy to do so.

You might read my comments in post 183.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You seem to know very little about the salvation Jesus taught.

It's obvious that you don't.

Why not read how He said to receive eternal life.

You've been shown what He said and have rejected it. He said to believe in Him for eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-26.

You've taken a verse and have grossly misunderstood it. When He spoke of "life" you've inserted "eternal life", which directly contradicts His words in the above verses.

He NEVER mentioned any sacrifices, nor a cross.

Obviously you've never read His words to His disciples:

Matt 26:26-28
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins
Mark 14:22-24
22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body." 23 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.

Luke 22:19-20
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you

1 Cor 11:24-26
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

What do you think Jesus was referring to by "my body" and "my blood" in connection to communion? And what is the "new covenant" He spoke of?

There is no way to answer these questions apart from the cross.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Oh, I see you are back. I am sure you know very little about sacrifices.

What is clear is how ignorant you are about the purpose of the Law in the OT and what it was for. But you'd have to be familiar with the Bible to understand that.

What you know would probably fit into an empty pecan shell.

Whatever I know is FAR MORE than what you've demonstrated.

Go read Leviticus 4 and come back to tell what you learn. Then tell us how Jesus met those requirements.

Jesus was perfect, being the Son of God. He fulfilled the Law completely, unlike any other human.

You don't even know what the Passover lamb was for. IT WAS NOT FOR SINS! It was a memorial to the children of Israel, and judgment of Egypt. But don't let the truth get in the way of your human delights.

Ex 12:26-28
26 And when your children ask you, 'What does this ceremony mean to you?' 27 then tell them, 'It is the Passover sacrifice to the Lord, who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and spared our homes when he struck down the Egyptians.'" Then the people bowed down and worshiped.

It was salvation from the destroying angel. Those who obeyed and put the lamb's blood on the doorposts were saved from death, just as faith in Christ are saved from death.

John wasn't referring to Jesus as the Passover lamb, as this lamb had nothing to do with sins. He was referring to the innocence of Jesus. And sin was taken away through repentance and forgiveness.

Your ignorance is showing again. Forgiveness comes through faith in Christ.

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

I don't give credence to one who promotes human sacrifice.

Interesting how one who has been refuted directly from Scripture just dismisses the Scripture.

Maybe you should read up on what others think of 2 Peter.

Why would I care about the opinions of others? Yours is unbiblical to the hilt. So why bother with what other like minded false teachers think?

Interesting how any verse that directly refutes your opinions is attacked by you.

Just how much of the Bible do you really accept? Seems not much. If you cut out all that Paul wrote (most of the NT) and Peter's epistles, what's left? A fraction of the NT.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Keep it civil folks! ​

 

[EmSw]

It's obvious that you don't.

You've been shown what He said and have rejected it. He said to believe in Him for eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-26.

You've taken a verse and have grossly misunderstood it. When He spoke of "life" you've inserted "eternal life", which directly contradicts His words in the above verses.

Everyone misunderstands but you, right? You are the great man of understanding. You have all the answers while others flounder about in misunderstanding. Like Paul, you speak against boasting, but do it anyway.

"Obviously you've never read His words to His disciples:

Matt 26:26-28
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins
Mark 14:22-24
22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body." 23 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them.

Luke 22:19-20
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you

There is nothing in those verses about sacrifices and His cross. Besides, He didn't need the cross to pour out His blood; don't you see it was available BEFORE He died?

1 Cor 11:24-26
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

What do you think Jesus was referring to by "my body" and "my blood" in connection to communion? And what is the "new covenant" He spoke of?

He wasn't referring to a death on the cross, nor a sacrifice! Besides, people were forbidden to drink the blood of a sacrifice. And the body had to be burnt before they ate it. But I'm sure you knew that.

There is no way to answer these questions apart from the cross.

Not in your head. You are so bent on a human sacrifice, it matters not what the law says. You love for abominations to God is tremendous; you will make up any belief to make sure you get that human sacrifice.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"You've been shown what He said and have rejected it. He said to believe in Him for eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-26.

You've taken a verse and have grossly misunderstood it. When He spoke of "life" you've inserted "eternal life", which directly contradicts His words in the above verses."

Everyone misunderstands but you, right?

Rather, it's your views that are in the vast minority among evangelicals.

You are the great man of understanding. You have all the answers while others flounder about in misunderstanding.

No, the Bible has all the answers. But you simply dismiss those verses that directly refute your claims.

Like Paul, you speak against boasting, but do it anyway.

Another example of your rejection of one of the writers of Scripture.

But 2 Peter 3:15,16 has your number anyway:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

There is nothing in those verses about sacrifices and His cross.

These are some of the verses that you've rejected because they refute your claims:

Rom 3:25 - God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Mark 14:12
On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Heb 9:26 - Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

These verses are God's word. Which you deny.

Besides, He didn't need the cross to pour out His blood; don't you see it was available BEFORE He died?

What did He die for?

He wasn't referring to a death on the cross, nor a sacrifice! Besides, people were forbidden to drink the blood of a sacrifice. And the body had to be burnt before they ate it. But I'm sure you knew that.

What you don't know is what Jesus said about Himself, just before He went to the cross, and WHY He shed His blood on the cross. The passages on the Lord's Table explain it clearly. As does Heb 9:26

Not in your head. You are so bent on a human sacrifice, it matters not what the law says. You love for abominations to God is tremendous; you will make up any belief to make sure you get that human sacrifice.

Your words are blasphemous to Jesus Christ, who IS our sacrifice for our sins.

 

[EmSw]

I said this:
"You've been shown what He said and have rejected it. He said to believe in Him for eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-26.

You've taken a verse and have grossly misunderstood it. When He spoke of "life" you've inserted "eternal life", which directly contradicts His words in the above verses."

Let's see what it says, shall we?

Matthew 19
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus answered the question, 'Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? Do you see it was ETERNAL LIFE of which Jesus answered? Of course not, you have your blinders on.

Rather, it's your views that are in the vast minority among evangelicals.

Is it a sin to not follow the crowd? Do I have to believe as you do to be saved? Do you only have the answers for salvation?

No, the Bible has all the answers. But you simply dismiss those verses that directly refute your claims.

The pot calling the kettle black!

Another example of your rejection of one of the writers of Scripture.

But 2 Peter 3:15,16 has your number anyway:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Want to know something? If I choose not to believe this was Peter speaking, as many others do, will I be lost for eternity? Or, do you have the way to salvation in your hip pocket?

These are some of the verses that you've rejected because they refute your claims:

Rom 3:25 - God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Mark 14:12
On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Heb 9:26 - Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

These verses are God's word. Which you deny.

The Gospel verses you quoted have nothing to do with any sacrifice of Jesus, no matter how hard you strain. As I told you before, the cup which is His blood was not shed on a cross; it was present before the cross. How you miss that, sure befuddles me.

What did He die for?

It was the last, great temptation He endured to defeat the hells, and glorify His human.

What you don't know is what Jesus said about Himself, just before He went to the cross, and WHY He shed His blood on the cross. The passages on the Lord's Table explain it clearly. As does Heb 9:26

Your words are blasphemous to Jesus Christ, who IS our sacrifice for our sins.

The passages on the Lord's table say absolutely NOTHING about shedding His blood on a cross! Take your blinders off!

Take your human sacrifice to the ends of the earth. If you desire an abomination to God, go for it, eat it up, and may it fill your belly.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Let's see what it says, shall we?

Matthew 19
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Jesus answered the question, 'Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? Do you see it was ETERNAL LIFE of which Jesus answered? Of course not, you have your blinders on.



Is it a sin to not follow the crowd? Do I have to believe as you do to be saved? Do you only have the answers for salvation?



The pot calling the kettle black!



Want to know something? If I choose not to believe this was Peter speaking, as many others do, will I be lost for eternity? Or, do you have the way to salvation in your hip pocket?



The Gospel verses you quoted have nothing to do with any sacrifice of Jesus, no matter how hard you strain. As I told you before, the cup which is His blood was not shed on a cross; it was present before the cross. How you miss that, sure befuddles me.



It was the last, great temptation He endured to defeat the hells, and glorify His human.



The passages on the Lord's table say absolutely NOTHING about shedding His blood on a cross! Take your blinders off!

Take your human sacrifice to the ends of the earth. If you desire an abomination to God, go for it, eat it up, and may it fill your belly.

Said the guy who rejects God's Word.

But Peter had your number when he wrote this:
2 Peter 3:15-16
15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Those who reject Paul's writings are called ignorant and unstable people, and they distort Paul's letters to their own destruction.

So nothing you post is valuable, except as an example of what Peter described.