Is it wrong to live together as spouses but not get married?

[samir]

Two people with health problems would like to get married but they can't afford it because of Obamacare. Both earn $21,000/year which qualifies them to get a good health insurance plan on healthcare.gov for less than $50/month each due to their low income. However, if they get married, they would have to pay $1,600/month (almost $20,000/year) because their combined income of $42,000/year would cause them to lose tax credits they received when they applied individually. Under Obamacare rules, if they lived together as husband and wife, but didn't get married, they could keep their existing plans and pay less than $100/month combined. Since Obamacare makes marriage unaffordable, is there anything wrong with them living together as husband and wife without getting married?

 

[John Hyperspace]

If you mean, according to the Bible; then as I am lead to understand, the first person you couple with is your "spouse" in the eyes of God. No state certificate necessary. In fact, this would make most state-sanctioned marriage irrelevant since many people "marry" someone who is not their first coupling, and therefore are not lawfully married in the eyes of God.

The short of it being; there's nothing wrong with being 'married' without a state-sanctioned recognition of it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

No.

 

[pat34lee]

Of course, the answer is YES. There is a problem,
and it's called fornication. Having sex doesn't make
you married. Marriage is a covenant in the sight of
God.

Even if you don't want the government involved,
you must include God. That means you still make
vows and are legally bound until death. Otherwise,
it's playing house.

I made that mistake about twenty years ago.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Maybe a common law marriage?

On the first coupling being seen as your spouse by God, that may be true, but I'm not sure and somewhat doubt it. On the other hand I think tons of people that remarry after even divorce, are as far as Christ is concerned, committing adultery, that may be a forgivable situation, just as not marrying your first, I'm not sure though, just some thoughts. I hope so because a lot of people are going to be left out of the running if not.

But that has nothing to do with this situation unless this is not your first knowledge or unless you or her has been married before, so again, you may want to consider common law.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The state was not always involved in marriage, but it is done before God.

I'm not here to excuse or condemn anyone, but having sexual activity without benefit of marriage is generally referred to as fornication, and is a sin.

I know one couple who sought clergy to marry them apart from civil authority.

I'm not unsympathetic to issues such as this. With our government's track record, I am especially unimpressed with the kinds of pressures they put on marriage.

But that doesn't change God's laws. However ... as I said, marriage was not a civil matter in many (most?) places and times.

 

[~Anastasia~]

(Just a thought, if sexual coupling = complete marriage in the eyes of God, there would be no such thing as fornication. How could it be committed in that case?)

I'm aware of the old Jewish laws, but iirc it took two factors to seal a marriage.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I think with common law marriage, one can deem themselves married, and that's it....I think. Maybe a contract of sorts is required? If so, my guess is that is good enough for God, and just as serious as a conventional marriage.

Problem is, that can make it so easy to walk away from a marriage.

 

[CodyFaith]

If you mean, according to the Bible; then as I am lead to understand, the first person you couple with is your "spouse" in the eyes of God. No state certificate necessary. In fact, this would make most state-sanctioned marriage irrelevant since many people "marry" someone who is not their first coupling, and therefore are not lawfully married in the eyes of God.

The short of it being; there's nothing wrong with being 'married' without a state-sanctioned recognition of it.

Uh... are you saying that when you date/and/or have sex with someone, that's your married partner?

Because if so, that's some pretty out there beliefs you have... and you realize practically no one else believes that right? That you're alone in that thought?

Don't get me wrong, I have enough wisdom to discern why you have most likely come to that conclusion ("going in" to someone in the Old Testament most likely?). But you're definitely wrong. Married is married. Besides gay marriage and the like, married in the sight of God is married in the sight of everyone else as well. Married according to the laws of the land matters. The act of marrying someone is important and crucial.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you mean, according to the Bible; then as I am lead to understand, the first person you couple with is your "spouse" in the eyes of God.

John, you were careful the way you stated that, and that was probably a good idea, but could I please ask why you understand that to be the case?

 

[samir]

Uh... are you saying that when you date/and/or have sex with someone, that's your married partner?

Because if so, that's some pretty out there beliefs you have... and you realize practically no one else believes that right? That you're alone in that thought?

Don't get me wrong, I have enough wisdom to discern why you have most likely come to that conclusion ("going in" to someone in the Old Testament most likely?). But you're definitely wrong. Married is married. Besides gay marriage and the like, married in the sight of God is married in the sight of everyone else as well. Married according to the laws of the land matters. The act of marrying someone is important and crucial.

I know people who believe that based on the verses that say when two are joined together they become one flesh.

 

[samir]

The state was not always involved in marriage, but it is done before God.

I'm not here to excuse or condemn anyone, but having sexual activity without benefit of marriage is generally referred to as fornication, and is a sin.

I know one couple who sought clergy to marry them apart from civil authority.

I'm not unsympathetic to issues such as this. With our government's track record, I am especially unimpressed with the kinds of pressures they put on marriage.

But that doesn't change God's laws. However ... as I said, marriage was not a civil matter in many (most?) places and times.

Is the church necessary for marriage? In other words, can a couple marry themselves before God without the government, church, or anyone else being involved?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Is the church necessary for marriage? In other words, can a couple marry themselves before God without the government, church, or anyone else being involved?

You are asking me to judge something from God's perspective.

Personally, I do not think so, but that is my own belief. Like I said, I'm not here to either condemn or excuse anyone. Too risky a thing to get wrong and have to answer for on judgment day.

All I can say is what fornication encompasses .... and that fornication would not be possible if sexual coupling = marriage. And it is easy enough to research an see that marriage was offered sacramentally by the Church and often recorded there, and not civilly.

Like I said, I have a great deal of compassion for people pushed into such a difficult position by the laws of the state. But it is God we must be sure to consider.

 

[Radagast]

Two people with health problems would like to get married but they can't afford it because of Obamacare. Both earn $21,000/year which qualifies them to get a good health insurance plan on healthcare.gov for less than $50/month each due to their low income. However, if they get married, they would have to pay $1,600/month (almost $20,000/year) because their combined income of $42,000/year would cause them to lose tax credits they received when they applied individually. Under Obamacare rules, if they lived together as husband and wife, but didn't get married, they could keep their existing plans and pay less than $100/month combined. Since Obamacare makes marriage unaffordable, is there anything wrong with them living together as husband and wife without getting married?

But a desire to defraud the government doesn't make fornication less wrong!

As to the Obamacare rules, the "two people" should seek professional advice, because the rules are complex, and depend on the type of plan (one family plan vs two single plans), tax filing status (joint or separate), etc.

 

[Radagast]

I think with common law marriage, one can deem themselves married, and that's it....I think.

It's only possible in a handful of states. Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana,Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah, I think.

Typically it's required that the couple live together and "have the reputation in the community as being married" or "publicly declare that they are married." In some states, consummation is also required.

Once those boxes are ticked, it's legally a marriage in those states, and recognised in other states if the couple moves, although a court case might be necessary to clarify the fact.

 

[samir]

But a desire to defraud the government doesn't make fornication less wrong!

If a person can get married in a church without involving the government then it wouldn't be fornication. I wondered it might be considered fraud to avoid registering one's marriage with the government in order to get more welfare.

As to the Obamacare rules, the "two people" should seek professional advice, because the rules are complex, and depend on the type of plan (one family plan vs two single plans), tax filing status (joint or separate), etc.

One family plan costs the same as two single plans. Married couples who file separately don't qualify for any tax credits. There's really nothing they can do except remain unmarried.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It's only possible in a handful of states. Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana,Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah, I think.

Typically it's required that the couple live together and "have the reputation in the community as being married" or "publicly declare that they are married." In some states, consummation is also required.

Once those boxes are ticked, it's legally a marriage in those states, and recognised in other states if the couple moves, although a court case might be necessary to clarify the fact.

I did just look it up and what you say looks about right, and for the few states it is recognized in, if it's on the record in most of those, it will do the OP no good. They may find one or two states where they could get away with it...may.

But a desire to defraud the government doesn't make fornication less wrong!

Yeah, that was my first thought and something to consider. The op, best I can tell is a stickler for Biblical based living so, the biblical obeying the laws of the land might be something he would want to look into.

 

[Radagast]

If a person can get married in a church without involving the government then it wouldn't be fornication. I wondered it might be considered fraud to avoid registering one's marriage with the government in order to get more welfare.

In a state with common-law marriage rules, that would be a legal marriage, and it would legally be fraud not to disclose the fact. In other states, my personal opinion is that morally it would still be wrong.

One family plan costs the same as two single plans. Married couples who file separately don't qualify for any tax credits. There's really nothing they can do except remain unmarried.

You would know better than me, although I would still strongly suggest professional advice. On my understanding of the rules, the statements in the OP about costs are incorrect. According to online calculators, a US average silver plan for two singles on the stated incomes would be about $100/month each, while a family plan for a couple on the combined income would be about $300/month.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If a person can get married in a church without involving the government then it wouldn't be fornication. I wondered it might be considered fraud to avoid registering one's marriage with the government in order to get more welfare.



One family plan costs the same as two single plans. Married couples who file separately don't qualify for any tax credits. There's really nothing they can do except remain unmarried.

Or file jointly...

 

[Armoured]

Two people with health problems would like to get married but they can't afford it because of Obamacare. Both earn $21,000/year which qualifies them to get a good health insurance plan on healthcare.gov for less than $50/month each due to their low income. However, if they get married, they would have to pay $1,600/month (almost $20,000/year) because their combined income of $42,000/year would cause them to lose tax credits they received when they applied individually. Under Obamacare rules, if they lived together as husband and wife, but didn't get married, they could keep their existing plans and pay less than $100/month combined. Since Obamacare makes marriage unaffordable, is there anything wrong with them living together as husband and wife without getting married?

Lived with my now wife for 15ish years before getting officially married. Doesn't seem to have had any long lasting negatives.