Is it wrong to gather for worship on Sunday?

[SAAN]

He has gotten many answers from me yet I'm still waiting for answers to the questions that I presented that challenge both you and his belief system. But I guess they will never come.

YOU STARTED THE SABBATH THREADS, SO WE SIMPLY WANT ANSWERS TO WHAT YOUR INTENTIONS ARE!! These are basic questions!!!


Say some Christians on here did just say one day, lets try to keep the Sabbath, what next would they do?

-Would they have to leave their church because everyone in there worships on Sunday and doesnt rest on Saturday?

-What church would they even go to considering 95% of Christian churches meet on Sunday outside of SDA, Saturday Baptist, and Jewish/Hebrew Roots Movements?

-Would they have to now start worshiping on Saturday instead?

-They would no longer be able to make purchases on Saturday, including not going out to eat?

-Would they not be able to watch TV, play games, go on the internet, watch sports, so they can turn away from their own pleasure (Isaiah 58:13)?



Is this your goal and what you want to see on Saturday by Christians?? If not what is your mission, as I listed everything the bible listed to keep the Sabbath holy?

 

[from scratch]

So we shouldn't obey God over man in all areas of God's will?

Sunday observance is not founded on Scripture, but rather, it's a tradition of man and was established long after Jesus, the Apostles and the early who all honored the seventh day.

This change to God's will came with much persecution, torture and death. This is surely a testimony that it is not of God.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was angry at the woman and declared war against the rest of her children—all who keep God’s commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus.

Do you mean the Ten Commandments? What is the testimony for Jesus? KJV says the testimony of Jesus Christ. I think there's a difference between for and of.

 

[from scratch]

A wicked person without God and without hope in the world needs a Law on stone with its threat of punishment to bring them to obey God. But we, who are born of God and love God, understand the meanings of words. God called the seventh day holy, blessed and sanctified. These words have meaning to God and instill value to the seventh day. We, as God's children, need no Law to see the sacredness and uniqueness of the seventh day of creation. Now go and honor that which God called holy and blessed.

So are you preaching to the wicked here? How can that be when one must be a Christian to post here. Where are Christians called the wicked?

No where does the New Testament call us to keep Saturday (the Sabbath).

 

[from scratch]

Why obey the commandments of God without faith?

Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

The commandments of God are contrary to the natural mind so one must walk by faith and not by the sinful nature.

Romans 8:6-8 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

When we walk by faith we will uphold the Law, not do away with it.

Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Do you lie, kill, rape, steal, worship other gods, use God's name in vain and so on? Why not? Are you under the Law? Are you trying to earn your salvation? Or do you love God and see value in God's way of living?

Only those who have been born of God see value in living as God calls us to live.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Please explain why faith is needed to keep the Sabbath or any of the other Ten Commandments for that matter. I don't understand how faith enters the picture.

What version of the bible are you using? I don't recognize it yet.

 

[from scratch]

Does our faith now do away with the commandments of God? No way! Before faith all we had was the Law on stone and it's punishment to motivate us and we messed that up to. Now we have faith and understand the spirit or purpose of the Law. In this we obey the Law because we value it and understand the principles that it teaches.

You've been told we don't do away with the Ten Commandments. You've been quoted the Bible saying God did but still accuse us. Why?

Do you lie, kill, rape, steal, worship other gods, use God's name in vain and so on? Why not? Are you under the Law? Are you trying to earn your salvation? Or do you love God and see value in God's way of living?

It isn't because of the law.

Only those who have been born of God see value in living as God calls us to live.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Practicing righteousness isn't practicing the law.

 

[from scratch]

Honoring the fourth commandment is in itself an act of worship just like refusing to worship other gods, refusing to lie, steal, kill and so on.

I'm still waiting for your answer.

Do you lie, kill, rape, steal, worship other gods, use God's name in vain and so on? Why not? Are you under the Law? Are you trying to earn your salvation? Or do you love God and see value in God's way of living?

No I don't do or practice the above sins. No it isn't because of the law or being told constantly not to do them either. Its because I'm led by the Holy Spirit, Who doesn't lead me to sin or the law. Gal 5:18. Yes I know very well you'll reject my testimony and say I live by the law. That's you business. It doesn't harm me in the least.

 

[rstrats]

Cribstyl,

re: "Luke 24th chapter, from first to last verse, covers what happened on the first Sunday when Jesus roses from the dead. It's biblical tradition that shows that the disciples gathered on the first day of the week."


Actually, as far as biblical tradition is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.

The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. They couldn't have been celebrating the Messiah's resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that He had risen.

The Acts reference could have had them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread daily.

Nothing in the two verses is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest.

Note also that not once in the Gospels, or indeed the whole of the New Testament, did the Messiah even mention the first day of the week, much less declare it the new day of rest to replace the seventh day Sabbath. And not once, according to the New Testament, were the Apostles gathered together in worship on the first day for the declared purpose of honoring the resurrection.

 

[annier]

Getting together on Sunday is not wrong, in of itself, that's why people have such a hard time seeing anything wrong with it but God calls us to remember to keep the seventh day holy, "Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."​Gathering together is always a good thing but when we lay aside a commandment of God in the process for a man made tradition it becomes a problem. Notice how, laying aside a commandment of God for man's tradition, was an issue for Jesus.

Mark 7:9-13 Jesus said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban” (that is, a gift to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Sunday observance is a tradition of man and has replaced the seventh day.

"Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than men".

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Not only do you take these scriptures out of their context, you also appear to be implying that the Sabbath was given for assembly to worship. It was a day of rest. Going to synagogue on Sabbath is of Rabbinic origins.
You want to try to to keep the covenant given through Moses, go ahead.

 

[from scratch]

Cribstyl,

re: "Luke 24th chapter, from first to last verse, covers what happened on the first Sunday when Jesus roses from the dead. It's biblical tradition that shows that the disciples gathered on the first day of the week."


Actually, as far as biblical tradition is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.

The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. They couldn't have been celebrating the Messiah's resurrection because at that time they didn't even believe that He had risen.

The Acts reference could have had them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread daily.

Nothing in the two verses is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest.

Note also that not once in the Gospels, or indeed the whole of the New Testament, did the Messiah even mention the first day of the week, much less declare it the new day of rest to replace the seventh day Sabbath. And not once, according to the New Testament, were the Apostles gathered together in worship on the first day for the declared purpose of honoring the resurrection.

The Churches of Galatia and Corinth meet on Sunday.

 

[from scratch]

Not only do you take these scriptures out of their context, you also appear to be implying that the Sabbath was given for assembly to worship. It was a day of rest. Going to synagogue on Sabbath is of Rabbinic origins.
You want to try to to keep the covenant given through Moses, go ahead.

I also grant them permission to attempt such an endeavor. My Bible says they can't ever comply. Failure is assured and death is the result.

 

[rstrats]

from scratch,


re: "The Churches of Galatia and Corinth meet on Sunday."


There is no scripture that says that.

 

[LarryP2]

from scratch,

re: "The Churches of Galatia and Corinth meet on Sunday."


There is no scripture that says that.

But there is HISTORY that says that. Eastern Orthodoxy has long asserted, and has never been refuted, that Sunday worship and Easter Commemoration began within the first year after the Resurrection. I have posted this claim literally 100's of times on this website, and nobody has ever acknowledged it, let alone addressed it, let alone disputed it, let alone refuted it.

It stands proud, unmolested and un-rebutted in any way and any kind. Galatia and Corinth continue to host very large Eastern Orthodox temples. They have been there since they First Century. They have NEVER conducted services on Saturdays.

Ellen White, Seventh Day Adventism's Sabbath conspiracy theorist in "her" masterful plagiarized masterpiece "The Great Controversy," announced that the Pope of Rome autocratically and unilaterally changed "Saturday to Sunday" under Emperor Constantine in the 320's. But then along came Adventist Sabbath Scholar Sanuele Bacchiochi in 1977, and researched the issue and concluded that Christian Sunday worship was universal no later that 135 AD, some 200 years before White lied about it.

When White was plagiarizing The Great Controversy, she was stealing from Wylies "History of the Protestant Reformation." Wylie's book laid out the continuing series of confrontation between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Bishop over the Easter day controversy. Wylie also mentions the claim of first year Sunday worship and Easter Celebration made by the Eastern Orthodox. Since Wylie cared nothing about Saturday versus Sunday worship, his book didn't spend much time on the issue. That is because it has always been a NON-ISSUE until Ellen White came along and made it central to Salvation.

White, perhaps in a panic, made a deliberate decision to exclude Wylie's observations from the Seventh Day Adventist membership, and thus her Papal Conspiracy theory of Sunday worship was born! It went well too, until 1977 when it was annihilated by the Bacchiochi fiasco.

 

[from scratch]

from scratch,


re: "The Churches of Galatia and Corinth meet on Sunday."


There is no scripture that says that.

Its not my problem if you don't believe what is written.

 

[from scratch]

But there is HISTORY that says that. Eastern Orthodoxy has long asserted, and has never been refuted, that Sunday worship and Easter Commemoration began within the first year after the Resurrection. I have posted this claim literally 100's of times on this website, and nobody has ever acknowledged it, let alone addressed it, let alone disputed it, let alone refuted.

It stands proud and unrebutted in any way and any kind. Galatia and Corinth continue to host very large Eastern Orthodox temples.

Ellen White, Seventh Day Adventism's Sabbath conspiracy theorist in "her" masterful plagiarized masterpiece "The Great Controversy," announced that the Pope of Rome autocratically and unilaterally changed "Saturday to Sunday" under Emperor Constantine in the 320's. But then along came Adventist Sabbath Scholar Sanuele Bacchiochi in 1977, and researched the issue and concluded that Christian Sunday worship was universal no later that 135 AD, some 200 years before White lied about it.

When White was plagiarizing The Great Controversy, she was stealing from Wylies "History of the Protestant Reformation." Wylie's book laid out the continuing series of confrontation between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Bishop over the Easter day controversy. Wylie also mentions the claim of first year Sunday worship and Easter Celebration made by the Eastern Orthodox.

White, perhaps in a panic, made a deliberate decision to exclude Wylie's observations from the Seventh Day Adventist membership, and thus her Papal Conspiracy theory of Sunday worship was born! It went well too, until 1977 and the Bacchiochi fiasco.

Doesn't that interfere with their 528 date for the RCC?

BTW there was no one nor a representative from Rome at the alluded to conference.

 

[LarryP2]

Doesn't that interfere with their 528 date for the RCC?

So are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church was not in existence for another 200 years AFTER Constantine? Is that what 528 means? Isn't that the date when Adventists say the founding of the Papacy occurred? Then they take the 1260 day prophecy of Daniel and extrapolate that to 1798 when the Pope was captured by Napoleon as the "mortal wound" suffered by the Papacy. Here's the difficulty: NOTHING happened in 528. The Papacy emphatically did not receive a "mortal wound" in 1798 either, since the Pope was released pretty soon after his capture. So nothing happened in 1798, either. Nothing happened under Constantine, since according the Seventh Day Adventist Sabbath scholar Samuele Bacchiochi, Sunday worship was already universal among Christians no later than 135 AD, long before the RCC and Constantine or a Pope ever dreamed of existing. And According to the Eastern Orthodoxy (who were willfully left completely out of all the plagiarized Seventh Day Adventist prophecy mangling, since it would have refuted ALL of their Evil Pope destroys the Sabbath conspiracy theories), Sunday worship began in the year after the Resurrection. Seventh Day Adventism is in a real pickle of credibility over that: They should have known for well over 120 years - but for Ellen White's willful concealment of history - that Eastern Orthodoxy's claim could not stay suppressed forever. Now that it is out, SDA is in NO position to refute it, since it is only their fault that millions and millions of Adventists have been misled for the last 120 years. What are they going to say? "Oh, we knew that all along, but chose not to inform our membership?"

NICE!

BTW there was no one nor a representative from Rome at the alluded to conference.

That's right. Under Constantine, the Eastern Church (Now Eastern Orthodoxy) was the powerful church, with Rome being a mere missionary effort, directed by the Powers that Be in Constantinople. Rome didn't start throwing its weight around for another 300 or 400 years.

If I have never mentioned this before, the Seventh Day Adventist Church has no reason to exist since literally NONE of the historical basis's for ANY of its prophetic predictions are true. Most importantly its 2300 Day Prophecy of Daniel 8:14, which led to the failed prediction of Christ's return in 1844. Which failure led to the conjuring up of its face-saving "Investigative Judgment" and sanctuary doctrines. Which in turn led to its adoption of the Sabbath Doctrine. Which led in return to its self-description as the "Remnant Church" of Revelation. Not just one, but ALL of its prophetic reckonings are wrong, with absolutely no basis whatsoever in history.


If you thought that was all bad, it only gets worse. This is only a preview. The whole story will be out in a day or two. Basically, a decision by Martin Luther, which was declared erroneous by both the RCC and the Eastern Orthodoxy, meant that the first 22 years of my life would be wasted inside of a non-biblical, anti-Christian cult.

And if you think that is bad, it only gets worse. Martin Luther made an extremely bad call that would effect the first 22 years of my lfie. Ellen White, the thief and liar, left out the Eastern Orthodox claims about First year after the Resurrection Sunday worship, even though she had Wylie's "History of the Protestant Reformation" opened right to the page where the Eastern Orothodox claims are. Without Martin Luther's bad call and Ellen White's lies and deliberate hiding of history, the SDA Church would have never started. With no SDA Church, I wouldn't have wasted 12 years of my life in their school system. Had I not gone through the Adventist School system, I would have never met my first girlfriend. My first girlfriend caused me to enter college around 10 years after graduation. I bought a motorcycle to impress her, which I wrecked and was badly injured and it took years to recover. Because I entered college so relatively late in life......

But that will take another thread which I will start in the next day or two. You will be blown away with what I have found.