Is it Wrong to Call Calvinism Unjust?

[Brightfame52]

So you're argument from Heb 11:6 is that God put's the faith into one who seeks him and they have no choice in the matter and even when it comes to the exhortation of being earnest well that's automatic as too. If being earnest wasn't a REAL choice how could it ever be said their earnesty was a true reflection of what they REALLY wanted. It could hardly be said they truly were earnestly seeking God. Such is why Calvinism doesn't make sense.

My aregument is that man naturally doesnt seek after God, which includes Faith. The seeking man doesnt do in Rom 3:11 is the seeking related to Faith in Heb 11:6. Do you understand now ?

 

[FreeGrace2]

lol, you showing verses that agree with me, and you cant even see it.

Now, that is really funny. lol, in fact.

I've never showed any verses that agree with your claims, because the Bible doesn't agree with your claims.

Man naturally doesnt seek after God, doesnt believe in God, nor understand God, all the things True Faith necessitates according to Heb 11:6

Just explain how an UNSAVED Cornelius was given information about how to be saved. Can you?

 

[Brightfame52]

Now, that is really funny. lol, in fact.

I've never showed any verses that agree with your claims, because the Bible doesn't agree with your claims.


Just explain how an UNSAVED Cornelius was given information about how to be saved. Can you?

It is funny, apparently you dont know what you doing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is funny, apparently you dont know what you doing.

All you've got is silly quips. Never any substance or evidence for your theories.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now, that is really funny. lol, in fact.

I've never showed any verses that agree with your claims, because the Bible doesn't agree with your claims.


Just explain how an UNSAVED Cornelius was given information about how to be saved. Can you?

Where does the scripture say Cornelius was unsaved ?

 

[Brightfame52]

All you've got is silly quips. Never any substance or evidence for your theories.

All you have done is rattled off a bunch of unsubstantial comments.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Where does the scripture say Cornelius was unsaved ?

I'm very happy to provide some biblical education for you.

Acts 11-
1 The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him
3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”
4Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story:

This is the background for what follows.

12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s (Cornelius) house.
13 He (Cornelius) told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

So, Cornelius explained to Peter what God's angel told Cornelius. This proves that Cornelius was UNSAVED prior to Peter's visit and message.

And finally:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

 

[FreeGrace2]

All you have done is rattled off a bunch of unsubstantial comments.

I think you've confused me with yourself.

I didn't rattle off anything. I did quote a number of verses that specifically describes those who were elected/chosen for service to the Lord.

What have you provided in your claim that election is to salvation? Zero

 

[Brightfame52]

I'm very happy to provide some biblical education for you.

Acts 11-
1 The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him
3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”
4Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story:

This is the background for what follows.

12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s (Cornelius) house.
13 He (Cornelius) told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

So, Cornelius explained to Peter what God's angel told Cornelius. This proves that Cornelius was UNSAVED prior to Peter's visit and message.

And finally:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

I am waiting ??? Where did scripture say Cornelius was unsaved ? In fact scripture said he was a Justified man Acts 10:22
And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

 

[Brightfame52]

I think you've confused me with yourself.

I didn't rattle off anything. I did quote a number of verses that specifically describes those who were elected/chosen for service to the Lord.

What have you provided in your claim that election is to salvation? Zero

You have a lot of talk friend !

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am waiting ??? Where did scripture say Cornelius was unsaved ? In fact scripture said he was a Justified man Acts 10:22

I am just mystified by your total lack of following this conversation. It's like you aren't even aware of the posts that you respond to. Why is that?

This is what I posted and you apparently ignored:

"12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s (Cornelius) house.
13 He (Cornelius) told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

So, Cornelius explained to Peter what God's angel told Cornelius. This proves that Cornelius was UNSAVED prior to Peter's visit and message."

I even put the proof in red so you couldn't miss it. v.14 in ch 11 proves that the angel from God told Cornelius that Peter would bring him a message "through which YOU and all your household WILL BE SAVED.

Now, if you still can't comprehend that Cornelius was UNSAVED when the angel appeared to him, why should I bother continuing any conversation with you?

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

I'm going to side with God's holy angel, who told Cornelius that Peter's message would save him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have a lot of talk friend !

No, I have a lot of truth, unlike yourself. You still haven't quoted any verse that actually says what you keep claiming.

 

[Brightfame52]

I am just mystified by your total lack of following this conversation. It's like you aren't even aware of the posts that you respond to. Why is that?

This is what I posted and you apparently ignored:

"12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s (Cornelius) house.
13 He (Cornelius) told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

So, Cornelius explained to Peter what God's angel told Cornelius. This proves that Cornelius was UNSAVED prior to Peter's visit and message."

I even put the proof in red so you couldn't miss it. v.14 in ch 11 proves that the angel from God told Cornelius that Peter would bring him a message "through which YOU and all your household WILL BE SAVED.

Now, if you still can't comprehend that Cornelius was UNSAVED when the angel appeared to him, why should I bother continuing any conversation with you?


I'm going to side with God's holy angel, who told Cornelius that Peter's message would save him.

Lol you dont even realize a Just man is a believer, a Christian Cornelius even before eter preached to him was going to be in the resurrection of the just Lk 14:14

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Cornelius was a Just man, justified !

 

[Brightfame52]

No, I have a lot of truth, unlike yourself. You still haven't quoted any verse that actually says what you keep claiming.

Where Im from talk is cheap.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lol you dont even realize a Just man is a believer, a Christian Cornelius even before eter preached to him was going to be in the resurrection of the just Lk 14:14

What in the world are you thinking? What does Luke 14:14 have to do with the story of Cornelius? Nothing. But one would have to be paying attention to know that.

Cornelius TOLD Peter that the angel from God told him how he would be saved.

I guess you are quite comfortable rejecting Scripture. But that's on you.

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Just remember who was describing Cornelius; his own men. That what THEIR own opinion. See? Everyone has one, and many times they are wrong.

Acts 10-
21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”

Do you want to argue that Cornelius' men knew Luke 14:14 and were using that definition of "just"? That would be highly ridiculous.

Rather, you have to argue that you believe what "the men" believed rather than what God's angel said to Cornelius.

But that figures. I'm not at all surprised.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Cornelius was a Just man, justified !

Sure. Take the word of "the men" OVER what God's own angel told Cornelius.

Just brilliant.

One of your problems is that you never consider the context.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Where Im from talk is cheap.

Well then, that explains your posts.

 

[Brightfame52]

What in the world are you thinking? What does Luke 14:14 have to do with the story of Cornelius? Nothing. But one would have to be paying attention to know that.

Cornelius TOLD Peter that the angel from God told him how he would be saved.

I guess you are quite comfortable rejecting Scripture. But that's on you.


Just remember who was describing Cornelius; his own men. That what THEIR own opinion. See? Everyone has one, and many times they are wrong.

Acts 10-
21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”

Do you want to argue that Cornelius' men knew Luke 14:14 and were using that definition of "just"? That would be highly ridiculous.

Rather, you have to argue that you believe what "the men" believed rather than what God's angel said to Cornelius.

But that figures. I'm not at all surprised.


Sure. Take the word of "the men" OVER what God's own angel told Cornelius.

Just brilliant.

One of your problems is that you never consider the context.

Again, you dont know what a Just/Righteous man is Thats a saved person, washed in the Blood of Christ and clothed in His Righteousness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, you dont know what a Just/Righteous man is Thats a saved person, washed in the Blood of Christ and clothed in His Righteousness.

It's real clear that you either aren't paying ANY attention or you simply don't understand the discussion.

You haven't read all of Acts 10 or 11. Please don't bother posting to me again until you have done that. I'm done trying to discuss with someone who is so clueless.

 

[Brightfame52]

It's real clear that you either aren't paying ANY attention or you simply don't understand the discussion.

You haven't read all of Acts 10 or 11. Please don't bother posting to me again until you have done that. I'm done trying to discuss with someone who is so clueless.

It's real clear that you either aren't paying ANY attention or you simply don't understand the discussion.

You haven't read all of Acts 10 or 11. Please don't bother posting to me again until you have done that. I'm done trying to discuss with someone who is so clueless.

A Just man is a saved man. Jesus intimated that Cornelius was cleansed by His blood When Jesus was sending Peter to preach the Gospel to him, He showed Peter a vision which said: Acts 10:15


And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

That word cleansed is the greek word katharizō and it means:

in a moral sense

1. to free from defilement of sin and from faults
   
2. to purify from wickedness
   
3. to free from guilt of sin, to purify
   
   
4. to consecrate by cleansing or purifying
   
   
5. to consecrate, dedicate
   

Also it says Cornelius feared God, man by nature doesnt fear God according to Rom 3:18

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

A Heart that fears God is from regeneration, the giving of a New Heart Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Jer 32:39-40

And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

A Just man is a saved man.

I really don't know what your problem is, but it was Cornelius' own staff who described him as just, as I have already shown.

And an angel OF GOD told Cornelius how he would be SAVED.

So you just keep being stubbornly WRONG. You make no sense.

Jesus intimated that Cornelius was cleansed by His blood When Jesus was sending Peter to preach the Gospel to him, He showed Peter a vision which said: Acts 10:15

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

That word cleansed is the greek word katharizō and it means:
in a moral sense

1. to free from defilement of sin and from faults
2. to purify from wickedness
3. to free from guilt of sin, to purify
4. to consecrate by cleansing or purifying
5. to consecrate, dedicate

1. This is what is meant by "reconciling" in 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

This is what Jesus Christ did on the cross. He paid the full sin debt of all of mankind.

Also it says Cornelius feared God, man by nature doesnt fear God according to Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

I've already tried to TEACH you that Rom 3:10-18 are quotes from 6 OT verses about the various ways man sins.

The word "fear" means respect. Cornelius did respect the Creator. And no one gets saved by respecting God.

A Heart that fears God is from regeneration, the giving of a New Heart Ezk 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Where do you see 'fear' in this verse?

Why do you keep quoting verses that DON'T say what you claim? Why should anyone believe what you claim when you don't have any evidence from Scripture.

Jer 32:39-40

And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them

Again, respect. And that saves no one.

Again, I will believe what God's own angel said to Cornelius than what Cornelius' own staff said about him.

Acts 11:14 - He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

Why is it so difficult to believe what God's own angel told Cornelius?