Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

[BobRyan]

I'll have to disagree in reference to his motives. I think he did it to appease the Jews. .

James is very specific about the "point" of it all. He states explicitly it is to refute false accusations made against Paul. Those here who choose to join in making those false accusations against Paul - are then confronted by Paul's response , as he joins in "proving" that the accusation against him -- is false!

And what (according to James) was the false accusation?

text please.

Acts 6:8-14
"Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people. 9Then some of those who belonged to the synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called), Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and others of those from Cilicia and Asia, stood up and argued with Stephen. 10But they could not withstand the wisdom and the Spirit* with which he spoke. 11Then they secretly instigated some men to say, ‘We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.’ 12They stirred up the people as well as the elders and the scribes; then they suddenly confronted him, seized him, and brought him before the council.13They set up false witnesses who said, ‘This man never stops saying things against this holy place and the law; 14for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth* will destroy this place and will change the customs that Moses handed on to us.’"

Isn't it ironic that Paul is accused of the same thing to this day!?

He was there when they accused Stephen of these false charges...in case someone missed it...

You said "Isn't it ironic that Paul is accused of the same thing to this day!?" -- bingo!!

Paul's false accusers... still accuse him

but notice in Acts 21 -- "exactly" what they accuse him of that James is getting everyone the "proof" they need to debunk the false accusation.

Acs 21: 20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children

James says the false accusers of Paul are accusing him of the VERY thing his accusers still accuse him of to this very day.

22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

I'll have to disagree in reference to his motives. I think he did it to appease the Jews. (his life was in danger) It would be hypocritical otherwise, concerning his teaching on the law. .

Now what is being "proposed" here is that Paul was deceiving his accusers into THINKING that their true accusation against him was in fact -- false. His trickery was supposed to "pay off" by getting them to think he was not doing the very thing they were accusing him of doing --- and that people accuse him of doing to this very day.

The argument above is that if Paul did not deceive them (As you and I claim and as several others also freely admit ) - then he would be a hypocrit. -- oh what spin-doctoring, what tangled webs --

Now what is even more "odd" is that some folks are stuck making the "Paul was either hypocrite or a liar" accusations against Paul, the Bible scholars in the classic Sunday vs Bible-Sabbath debate ALSO freely admit that all TEN of the TEN Commandments apply to all mankind as they are part of the moral law of God, and for Christians are written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

Some "details" are just soooooooo incredibly obvious that BOTH sides admit to them.

 

[Saint Steven]

He went to Jerusalem KNOWING his life was in danger. Why would he do what James said if he did not believe it?? Makes no sense...he did it to prove he was Torah observant, to prove them wrong. Either Paul was a liar OR he WAS Torah observant...Paul himself answers...

Paul replied: “I know that for a number of years you have been a judge over this nation; so I gladly make my defense. You can easily verify that no more than twelve days ago I went up to Jerusalem to worship. My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

Here again, the importance of definitions.

You ended your red highlight at the word "Law" (capital "L").
"... in accordance with the Law and... the Prophets". The Law and the Prophets.
The same phrase used by Christ in Matt.5:19. (the Law or the Prophets)
Meaning the Books of the Law and the Books of the Prophets.

Paul says he worships God as a follower of the Way. (admits)
He believes everything that is accordance with the Law and the Prophets.

Acts 17:2-3
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

 

[Saint Steven]

Except that Paul went from synagogue to synagogue looking for followers Acts 22:19 so obviously they were in MANY of the synagogues...

Yes, they were living a double life and in great danger.
The synagogues were not a place that was welcoming to Christianity.

 

[Saint Steven]

Your loss.

What am I missing?

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, I've read that passage many times...and every time you posted it here.

Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

What do you think is the difference?

Why do you dichotomize belief and obedience?

Imagine that I have two sons.
I asked the older one to mow the lawn and the younger one to trim the hedge.

Later I find out the younger one mowed the lawn and trimmed the hedge.
Which son was obedient?

 

[Tone]

Imagine that I have two sons.
I asked the older one to mow the lawn and the younger one to trim the hedge.

Later I find out the younger one mowed the lawn and trimmed the hedge.
Which son was obedient?

What if they both did both, having brotherly love? Would you be a proud father?

 

[Tone]

What am I missing?

Treasure.

 

[Saint Steven]

Acts 6:8-14
"Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people. 9Then some of those who belonged to the synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called), Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and others of those from Cilicia and Asia, stood up and argued with Stephen. 10But they could not withstand the wisdom and the Spirit* with which he spoke. 11Then they secretly instigated some men to say, ‘We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.’ 12They stirred up the people as well as the elders and the scribes; then they suddenly confronted him, seized him, and brought him before the council.13They set up false witnesses who said, ‘This man never stops saying things against this holy place and the law; 14for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth* will destroy this place and will change the customs that Moses handed on to us.’"

Isn't it ironic that Paul is accused of the same thing to this day!?

He was there when they accused Stephen of these false charges...in case someone missed it...

I thought you had read the book of Galatians.

There is a whole list of charges here. There are three possible outcomes.
All the charges are false, all the charges are true, or some are true and some are false.
I think the latter is the case here.

Did Stephen:
1) never stop saying things against this holy place?
2) never stop saying things against the law?
3) say that Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place? (the Temple)
4) say that Jesus of Nazareth will change the customs that Moses handed on to us?
He probably didn't do number 1 above.
What he did say probably sounded like number 2 above.
He was quoting Jesus if he said number 3 above. (though misunderstood)
He likely could have said number 4 above. It sounds a lot like Paul's teaching.

 

[Saint Steven]

What if they both did both, having brotherly love? Would you be a proud father?

Why do you dichotomize brotherly love and obedience?
They were both disobedient. Should they not be punished to the full extent of the law?

 

[Tone]

I thought you had read the book of Galatians.

There is a whole list of charges here. There are three possible outcomes.
All the charges are false, all the charges are true, or some are true and some are false.
I think the latter is the case here.

Did Stephen:
1) never stop saying things against this holy place?
2) never stop saying things against the law?
3) say that Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place? (the Temple)
4) say that Jesus of Nazareth will change the customs that Moses handed on to us?
He probably didn't do number 1 above.
What he did say probably sounded like number 2 above.
He was quoting Jesus if he said number 3 above. (though misunderstood)
He likely could have said number 4 above. It sounds a lot like Paul's teaching.

"False witnesses"

 

[Saint Steven]

Treasure.

Do you speak in tongues? Have visions? Prophesy? Heal the sick?

 

[Tone]

Why do you dichotomize brotherly love and obedience?
They were both disobedient. Should they not be punished to the full extent of the law?

According to Saint Steven's law...evidently...

 

[Saint Steven]

"False witnesses"

You claim that all the accusation are false? I claim that some of them were true.
If none of them was true, why was he there?

 

[Saint Steven]

According to Saint Steven's law...evidently...

As the father in the illustration, did I not have the right to make my own laws and enforce them?

 

[Tone]

Do you speak in tongues? Have visions? Prophesy? Heal the sick?

If you have been granted those spiritual gifts, great, that's a blessing. That blessing does not take from the blessings and promises available to you as found in Torah. It's not either or it's both/and if you want it.

 

[Tone]

So, you believe I have some punishment coming from the Father for enjoying Shabbat?


Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

 

[Tone]

Can you show me anywhere in Scripture where those who delight in Torah and strive to walk in the blessings thereof, are punished?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Here again, the importance of definitions.

You ended your red highlight at the word "Law" (capital "L").
"... in accordance with the Law and... the Prophets". The Law and the Prophets.
The same phrase used by Christ in Matt.5:19. (the Law or the Prophets)
Meaning the Books of the Law and the Books of the Prophets.

Paul says he worships God as a follower of the Way. (admits)
He believes everything that is accordance with the Law and the Prophets.

Acts 17:2-3
As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.

Torah and Nevi'im

 

[Saint Steven]

If you have been granted those spiritual gifts, great, that's a blessing. That blessing does not take from the blessings and promises available to you as found in Torah. It's not either or it's both/and if you want it.

Been granted? Like it fell out of heaven or something?
Like a totally random occurrence?
As if to say, "That's great, whatever..." (yawn) Seriously?

1 Corinthians 12:7
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.

1 Corinthians 12:31
Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. ...

1 Corinthians 14:1
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes, they were living a double life and in great danger.
The synagogues were not a place that was welcoming to Christianity.

As I have shown, it was called a "sect" WITHIN Judaism at one point. It was tolerated as long as the adherents were at least Ger Toshav. It became dangerous later...

"I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect.