Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Which one proves that Jesus was the Messiah? (scriptures)

both, but what was your point?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Later? What about when Christ was still alive?

John 9:22
His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

Oh sure...the perception was Torah or no Torah...accusations were just that...most false.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not if you don't have faith that He wants to bless you.

That has nothing to do with the law.
The Apostle Peter said it best.

Acts 15:10-11
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 

[Saint Steven]

Oh sure...the perception was Torah or no Torah...accusations were just that...most false.

Their fears were justified, not imaginary. The Jewish leaders had already decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

John 9:22
His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

 

[Saint Steven]

both, but what was your point?

I was trying to answer your questions, which isn't easy when they include Hebrew words I am not familiar with. (I'm not Jewish) But, if you want a point, here you go.

In the scripture below, the Apostle distinguishes between "those who are of the law" and "those who have the faith of Abraham", calling BOTH "Abraham’s offspring". Therefore, not all believers are "of the law". Are you of the law?

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

 

[Saint Steven]

Sound doctrine conforms to the gospel, not to the law.
The law is not made for the righteous. The law is good if one uses it properly.
Therefore, those who want to be teachers of the law do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 1:7-11
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sound doctrine conforms to the gospel, not to the law.
The law is not made for the righteous. The law is good if one uses it properly.
Therefore, those who want to be teachers of the law do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 1:7-11
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

How can you have a gospel without law? Sorry Steve, God's WORD does not teach lawlessness *1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; HEBREWS 10:26-27. What do you think the scriptures in MATTHEW 9:12-13 and ROMANS 3:10-20 mean?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I was trying to answer your questions, which isn't easy when they include Hebrew words I am not familiar with. (I'm not Jewish) But, if you want a point, here you go.

In the scripture below, the Apostle distinguishes between "those who are of the law" and "those who have the faith of Abraham", calling BOTH "Abraham’s offspring". Therefore, not all believers are "of the law". Are you of the law?

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

He was basically saying all the children of Abraham...the faith of Abraham. You really need to get the law only and grace only out of your head...they are not mutually exclusive. You can follow the law and be justified by grace...
When you say "of the law" you are implying no grace...only legalism.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

1 Timothy 1:7-11
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

That is because the righteous FOLLOW it. If they didn't, they would be lawless lawbreakers as he describes...they would be practicing unsound doctrine...sound doctrine conforms to the Gospel.

 

[Saint Steven]

He was basically saying all the children of Abraham...the faith of Abraham. You really need to get the law only and grace only out of your head...they are not mutually exclusive. You can follow the law and be justified by grace...
When you say "of the law" you are implying no grace...only legalism.

There is no grace in the law. You could say the Books of the Law point to grace. But...

Faith points to Abraham, not to Moses. Essentially, the new covenant preceded, or was interrupted by, the old covenant. Grace points to a relationship with God, not a relationship with the law.

Galatians 3:12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Their fears were justified, not imaginary. The Jewish leaders had already decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

John 9:22
His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

This was while Jesus was still alive. The wanted to to catch Him.

They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man’s parents. “Is this your son?” they asked. “Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?”

“We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.” His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. That is why his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There is no grace in the law.

Grace points to a relationship with God, not a relationship with the law.

Galatians 3:12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary...

Who wrote and was the author of the Law? You are implying those who believe and also keep the Law have no faith...that would ONLY be true if it requires justification ONLY through the Law and not grace.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.

 

[Saint Steven]

That is because the righteous FOLLOW it. If they didn't, they would be lawless lawbreakers as he describes...they would be practicing unsound doctrine...sound doctrine conforms to the Gospel.

There you go. "...sound doctrine conforms to the Gospel." (not the law)

This is where the distinction between "God's law" and "the law" comes into play.
I define "the law" as the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.
Which had a basis in "God's law" of human conscience referred to here in this parenthetical statement by the Apostle Paul.

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

 

[Saint Steven]

Who wrote and was the author of the Law? You are implying those who believe and also keep the Law have no faith...that would ONLY be true if it requires justification ONLY through the Law and not grace.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.

Keep the law? Isn't that the point? No one can keep the law.

I wouldn't have posted the scripture about the faith of Abraham INCLUDING those "of the law" if I believed they have no faith. My point was that NOT EVERYONE who is of the faith of Abraham is OF THE LAW. Two camps, one Lord. It seems that you are making a case for all those of faith being "of the law". But perhaps I misunderstand you.

 

[Saint Steven]

This was while Jesus was still alive. The wanted to to catch Him.

Catch him?
He had a public ministry.

The point is that believers were being persecuted while Jesus was still here. Prior to the crucifixion.

 

[Saint Steven]

ou really need to get the law only and grace only out of your head...they are not mutually exclusive.

What is your motivation for following the law in grace?

 

[Tone]

"God has always been full of grace (Psalm 116:5; Joel 2:13), and people have always been saved by faith in God (Genesis 15:6). God did not change between the Old and New Testaments (Numbers 23:19; Psalm 55:19). The same God who gave the Law also gave Jesus (John 3:16). His grace was demonstrated through the Law by providing the sacrificial system to cover sin. Jesus was born “under the law” (Galatians 4:4) and became the final sacrifice to bring the Law to fulfillment and establish the New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Now, everyone who comes to God through Christ is declared righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18; Hebrews 9:15)."
Law vs. grace-why is there so much conflict among Christians on the issue?

 

[Tone]

The Grace of The Law

That's a good article for you too!

 

[ace of hearts]

You are getting those who delight in Torah and strive for the blessings mixed up with those "who are trying to be justified by the law"--It's two different conditions of the heart.

That's a little sneaky if you ask me. I think there's more to it than just temporal blessings for them.

 

[ace of hearts]

"Under the LAW" was already defined by Paul this way in Romans 3

Rom
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 John 3:4 "for SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

The "School master" creates the reality - the context - that you are a lost sinner headed for the second-death lake-of-fire and in need of the Gospel solution.

When "Faith comes" - you are born again and no longer under the condemnation of the LAW of God. Rather under the NEW Covenant that Law is "written on the heart" Jer 31:31-33

This is the easy part of the topic.

So we continue to put uop with your half truths and out right denial of what Scripture says. Jeremiah doesn't say the covenant made with Israel is written on the heart. Moses says that covenant is the famous 10 in Deut 4:13.