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Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
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Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

yet they are the same, that is what Paul is saying...gentiles who do not have the law do by nature like those who do...same result in the end...otherwise they would be ling under lawlessness...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Catch him?
He had a public ministry.

The point is that believers were being persecuted while Jesus was still here. Prior to the crucifixion.

Of course, they were willingly breaking Torah (bearing false witness for one) while saying believers were...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Keep the law? Isn't that the point? No one can keep the law.

I wouldn't have posted the scripture about the faith of Abraham INCLUDING those "of the law" if I believed they have no faith. My point was that NOT EVERYONE who is of the faith of Abraham is OF THE LAW. Two camps, one Lord. It seems that you are making a case for all those of faith being "of the law". But perhaps I misunderstand you.

So if you can't get an A on every test, why bother studying and taking any? Just keep failing, but the teacher will keep passing you? How does that help you? You sin, you fall, you get back up again, you ask for forgiveness and you try again! Grace is not a license to sin!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There is no grace in the law. You could say the Books of the Law point to grace.

How can you have God's GRACE without God's LAW? It is God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that leads to Grace. It is because we are all sinners and God's LAW gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and shows us that we are all sinners in need of Salvation. God's GRACE is God's LOVE revealed in JESUS and God's plan of salvation to save us from our sins revealed through his WORD. Many do not know what Grace is for but God's WORD makes it very clear.

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Grace is linked to mercy and peace from God the farther and from JESUS in love and truth.

2 JOHN 1:3 [3] Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

We are to grow in God's GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of our LORD JESUS CHRSIT.

2 PETER 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. *2 PETER 1:2

We do this by seeking JESUS to be our teacher and continuing in God's WORD.

JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

JOHN 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

TITUS 2:11-12 [11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY JUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

ROMANS 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

God's GRACE is given to us because all of us have sinned and are sinners (broken God's 10 Commandments) and the wages of SIN is death *ROMANS 3:23; ROMANS 5:12; ROMANS 6:23.

ROMANS 8:3-4
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTOUESNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD
χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD
חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favour leading to a change of behaviour. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to GOD'S WORD in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it to save us from our sins and the penalty of sin (death) and our sinful nature through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach lawlessness.

Hope this helps.
 
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Saint Steven

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"God has always been full of grace (Psalm 116:5; Joel 2:13), and people have always been saved by faith in God (Genesis 15:6). God did not change between the Old and New Testaments (Numbers 23:19; Psalm 55:19). The same God who gave the Law also gave Jesus (John 3:16). His grace was demonstrated through the Law by providing the sacrificial system to cover sin. Jesus was born “under the law” (Galatians 4:4) and became the final sacrifice to bring the Law to fulfillment and establish the New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Now, everyone who comes to God through Christ is declared righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18; Hebrews 9:15)."
Law vs. grace-why is there so much conflict among Christians on the issue?
That's a good example of "under the law" not meaning under the "condemnation" of the law.
 
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Saint Steven

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yet they are the same, that is what Paul is saying...gentiles who do not have the law do by nature like those who do...same result in the end...otherwise they would be ling under lawlessness...
Do they keep the Sabbath? (nope)
 
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Saint Steven

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So if you can't get an A on every test, why bother studying and taking any? Just keep failing, but the teacher will keep passing you? How does that help you? You sin, you fall, you get back up again, you ask for forgiveness and you try again! Grace is not a license to sin!
Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
 
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BobRyan

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Do they keep the Sabbath? (nope)

they do in Isaiah 56:6-8 -- as we both know by now.
They do in Isaiah 66:23 - as we both know by now.
They do in Acts 13 where gentiles ask that more gospel be presented "the next Sabbath"
They do in Acts 17:1-5 for three Sabbaths in a row hearing the Gospel
They do in Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" as we both know by now

Even these groups know that all TEN of the TEN commandments are for all mankind -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

not applicable to my point
 
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Saint Steven

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Revelation 15:5
"After this I looked, and I saw in heaven the temple—that is, the tabernacle of the covenant law—and it was opened."
Is that the source of the blessings you have been talking about?
Let's continue reading.

Revelation 15:6-8
Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.
 
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Saint Steven

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Right. By in large they do not keep the Sabbath.
Even though they have God's law of conscience to convict them if it was a sin.
Alas, it is not. The Sabbath was given to the Israelites alone.
One may choose to observe it, but there is no compelling reason to do so.
 
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Saint Steven

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That you are stubborn :) I don't judge you, not my job
Stubborn?
As if I am refusing to do as I should?
You have failed to convincingly saddle me with this yoke of bondage.
Seems unfair to call me stubborn. (I knew you were kidding, sort of)
Especially since it is not a requirement for me. Stubborn?
You mean stubborn and disobedient, I suppose.

You say you do it because you "love the Almighty".
This obviously infers that anyone who doesn't do as you do, doesn't "love the Almighty".

This is why the law and grace are like oil and water. They don't mix without constant agitation. Left alone they separate naturally.
 
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Saint Steven

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The Torah with belief is blessings...with unbelief...curses.
So you keep the law to avoid curses? (fear motive)

How do you know that those curses are aimed at you?
Maybe that's a claim ticket you don't need to own.
 
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