Is it time for Donald to bow out? (MOVED)

[Bible Highlighter]

Most of the article focuses on how expensive it would be and 'facts' that have nothing to do with why the wall would be "moronic" (their word).....

First, It damages relations with Mexico and other countries if we know that we have to put up huge walls.

Second, a poll suggests that the border cities think the wall is a bad idea.
http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2016/border-poll/

Three, it would hurt the economy. Why do you think every day things are so cheap here in America versus other countries like Brazil? We do trade with China and other countries who have people working in factories for very little money. In other words, some person is working really really dirt cheap and Americans reap the benefit of it. By focusing on the economic costs and benefits of legal and illegal immigration, Professor Hanson concludes that stemming illegal immigration would likely lead to a net drain on the U.S. economy. In fact, US farmers depend on illegal immigrants (that most Americans today do not want to do these jobs because they are very labor intensive).

http://www.voanews.com/a/us-farmers-depend-on-illegal-immigrants-100541644/162082.html

Also, this link explains from an Engineer's perspective why such a large wall is unnecessary and a waste of money (not to mention extremely challenging). I mean, the hight of the wall is absolutely ridiculous.
http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/

Four, Jesus is about breaking down walls and not putting up walls.

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us" (Ephesians 2:14).​

Jesus was crucified outside the city gates.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2009/04-02a.html

This is important because Jesus is for all people now and not just for the Jews. As a Christian, the gospel is for everyone and not just for certain people. A Christian's mission (if they so choose to accept it) is to preach the gospel to every race, religion, and color (i.e. people of all nations). But if you back a man who puts up walls, you destroy that idea or concept. In other words, let the dead bury their own dead (don't worry about the ways of the world and try to change things by the world's standards) and follow Jesus and preach the gospel to all people instead (helping those who are less fortunate). For we as believers today are not about building walls around other people (so as to keep them out) but we are about tearing walls down (and healing people of all kinds).

Conclusion: People who truly know what is going on and those who are highly educated think everything Trump says is absolutely ridiculous. He would be a horrific choice for this country. He has no clue about the reality of how things truly run here in America.


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[Aldebaran]

Four, Jesus is about breaking down walls and not putting up walls.

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us" (Ephesians 2:14).​

You need to understand context. Just because a verse can be found in the bible about a wall doesn't mean it applies to every wall of any kind. Even the New Jerusalem will have a wall as seen in Revelation 21:12.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You need to understand context. Just because a verse can be found in the bible about a wall doesn't mean it applies to every wall of any kind. Even the New Jerusalem will have a wall as seen in Revelation 21:12.

But look at the context again. This is not a wall built by New Covenant believers here on this Earth. It is a heavenly wall as a part of a heavenly city.

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[SpunkyDoodle]

But look at the context again. This is not a wall built by believers here on this Earth. It is a heavenly wall as a part of a heavenly city.

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It is a wall to keep that which is undesirable OUT.

Revelation, Chapter 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is a wall to keep that which is undesirable OUT.

Revelation, Chapter 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

First, this is a wall as a part of a Heavenly city and not an Earthly city. There is a vast difference of life here versus life for the believer in the after life. Christ builds a mansion for his saints but He does not desire them to build giant mansions for themselves here. Second, the wall is a picture of keeping the sinners separate from the righreous. This is not a wall to keep Mexicans out.

Also, Trump would be wasting billions of dollars over a problem that is not all that serious. In fact, his wall will actually do more harm than it will any good. The guy is clueless and should not be anywhere near the White House.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You mean the one that was edited in after I replied?.....yes I missed it.......

It is mere seconds later after I added it. But sorry you missed it (at first).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Trump is always angry, and overly insulting, ignores people's questions, and he is immoral (i.e. he says he can murder with no consequences, and treat women however they like, and not pay taxes). This man is clealry unfit to be President of the United States. This does not also take into account that a lot of his ideas are absolutely just dumb on so many levels, as well. It is no wonder that that majority of the uneducated have voted for him so far. Even people who needed a cold splash of water of his immorality with Trump's sex recording (recently coming to light) are now finally waking up to this man and seeing him for who he really is. Those who do not want to see it (I will pray for them). For he is a dangerous person to have in the White House.


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[SpunkyDoodle]

First, this is a wall as a part of a Heavenly city and not an Earthly city. There is a vast difference of life here versus life for the believer in the after life. Christ builds a mansion for his saints but He does not desire them to build giant mansions for themselves here. Second, the wall is a picture of keeping the sinners separate from the righreous. This is not a wall to keep Mexicans out.

Also, Trump would be wasting billions of dollars over a problem that is not all that serious. In fact, his wall will actually do more harm than it will any good. The guy is clueless and should not be anywhere near the White House.


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Billions are being wasted right now caring for people who are not our citizens, but the problems from a different country. Many more billions are wasted on illegal aliens every year in America than would be "wasted" building a wall to stem the flood of illegal aliens coming here over the border with Mexico.

Mexico purposely sent criminals here, and now they are not taking care of them, we are. A significant portion of prison populations is made up of illegal aliens who came here, and did criminal acts. I know farmers who tried to go the legal route, and import migrant workers through the government approved program. They come here, ruin the nice accommodations he must provide, and then leave after a short while. It is then the job of our government to find them, figure out what they are doing and try to send them back!

You are right that this is speaking of an earthly wall, and the scriptures speak of a wall that is part of a city built by God. When it is on Earth, though, it will be keeping out those who are undesirable, and that is the purpose of building a wall/fence on the border with Mexico.

If there is someone there that would make a good citizen of the US (or good visitor,) they can come here legally. We have the most liberal and open immigration policy of any country in the world. Rush Limbaugh got a huge backlash from asking "What If" and reading a very restrictive list of immigration policies. When done, he revealed it was the current policy of Mexico toward immigration into their country. If you want some big trouble, go to Mexico, and do what their people do here all the time.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Billions are being wasted right now caring for people who are not our citizens, but the problems from a different country. Many more billions are wasted on illegal aliens every year in America than would be "wasted" building a wall to stem the flood of illegal aliens coming here over the border with Mexico.

Mexico purposely sent criminals here, and now they are not taking care of them, we are. A significant portion of prison populations is made up of illegal aliens who came here, and did criminal acts. I know farmers who tried to go the legal route, and import migrant workers through the government approved program. They come here, ruin the nice accommodations he must provide, and then leave after a short while. It is then the job of our government to find them, figure out what they are doing and try to send them back!

You are right that this is speaking of an earthly wall, and the scriptures speak of a wall that is part of a city built by God. When it is on Earth, though, it will be keeping out those who are undesirable, and that is the purpose of building a wall/fence on the border with Mexico.

If there is someone there that would make a good citizen of the US (or good visitor,) they can come here legally. We have the most liberal and open immigration policy of any country in the world. Rush Limbaugh got a huge backlash from asking "What If" and reading a very restrictive list of immigration policies. When done, he revealed it was the current policy of Mexico toward immigration into their country. If you want some big trouble, go to Mexico, and do what their people do here all the time.

I advise you to check with people online or in person who are actually educated on such matters. Don't take my word for it. But research it for yourself from an unbiased viewpoint.

For not all immigrants are criminals. Just because they are Mexican does not mean they are criminals. Nor are they undesirable. There are also white criminals here in America, too. In fact, there are many Mexicans who are trying to seek a better life and they work farm jobs. Farm jobs that most Americans do not want to do. Who is going to work these farm jobs? You? Building an unnecessarily high wall when the border is already patrolled is not cost effective let alone it would damage relations with not only Mexico but with other countries. Putting up a wall sends the wrong message. I mean, put your self in the shoes of an immigrant from Mexico who is just trying to better himself and his family but yet he works really really really hard on a farm to barely put food on the table. How would you feel if this wall was put up if you were in his shoes? I mean, you do realize that America was founded by immigrants with many of them having rebelled against England, right?

Also, the wall is overkill. The wall is an insult to people today. If people want to get passed the wall they will find a way. Building a more expensive wall is not going to ultimately stop immigrants. It is a very dumb idea. But believe as you wish.

Oh, and what is even more dumb is that Trump wants Mexico to pay for the wall. The Mexican president already said he would not pay for it. So Trump is living in this imaginary make believe world.

Trump is also claiming that the campaign is rigged, too. The man is a soar loser and just makes outrageous claims because things are not going his way.


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[civilwarbuff]

Guess it is time to leave the wall behind us....or start another thread por favor'

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In addition, the most troubling part of Trump's immigration plan is that he has, in effect, endorsed mass deportations of the undocumented. "We're going to keep the families together, but they have to go," he said on "Meet the Press." Think about what this would mean: Our undocumented population is estimated at about 11 million, roughly equivalent to the population of Ohio.
Think of the tremendous economic upheaval, human suffering and community destabilization that would occur if our government were to round up and remove 11 million people. Such an idea is staggering in its lack of compassion, especially since a reported 62% of the undocumented have lived here for at least a decade, most as productive members of their American communities.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/17/opinions/reyes-trump-immigration/

Violence, death, and racism would rise as a result if you were to force productive members of our society who are undocumented out of the States. Then there is the economy. It would be horrible. A disaster. Not only will the wall make things bad, the deportation of undocumented immigrants would be even far worse. It's a nightmare.


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[civilwarbuff]

In addition, the most troubling part of Trump's immigration plan is that he has, in effect, endorsed mass deportations of the undocumented. "We're going to keep the families together, but they have to go," he said on "Meet the Press." Think about what this would mean: Our undocumented population is estimated at about 11 million, roughly equivalent to the population of Ohio.
Think of the tremendous economic upheaval, human suffering and community destabilization that would occur if our government were to round up and remove 11 million people. Such an idea is staggering in its lack of compassion, especially since a reported 62% of the undocumented have lived here for at least a decade, most as productive members of their American communities.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/17/opinions/reyes-trump-immigration/

Violence, death, and racism would rise as a result if you were to force productive members of our society who are undocumented out of the States. Then there is the economy. It would be horrible. A disaster. Not only will the wall make things bad, the deportation of undocumented immigrants would be even far worse. It's a nightmare.


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But if you took 11 million people who were breaking the law (and yes, I know many are juveniles but bear with me) and punished them in some way, that would be ok, right? I mean, people who break the law should be punished, right?.....or do they just get off?....and which laws do you allow people to break?....where do you determine which laws are worth enforcing and which are not? We either enforce the law or we don't; why should we be criticized for wanting our laws to be enforced?....to have people held accountable for their actions?...is that not why we make laws?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Guess it is time to leave the wall behind us....or start another thread por favor'

It just amazes me how people cannot see the man for who he is and how bad he would be for this country. It's so obvious he is wrong for so many reasons. It actually makes me sad that self professing Christians would even endorse the man. It also speaks about the state of America today and that troubles me greatly. Granted, even the endorsement of Hillary is wrong, too. But at least she would not run this country into the ground overnight by being angry, irrational, care free with any consequences, and being inexperienced.


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[civilwarbuff]

Violence, death, and racism would rise as a result if you were to force productive members of our society who are undocumented out of the States. Then there is the economy. It would be horrible. A disaster. Not only will the wall make things bad, the deportation of undocumented immigrants would be even far worse. It's a nightmare.

And i am sorry but this is just histrionics....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But if you took 11 million people who were breaking the law (and yes, I know many are juveniles but bear with me) and punished them in some way, that would be ok, right? I mean, people who break the law should be punished, right?.....or do they just get off?....and which laws do you allow people to break?....where do you determine which laws are worth enforcing and which are not? We either enforce the law or we don't; why should we be criticized for wanting our laws to be enforced?....to have people held accountable for their actions?...is that not why we make laws?

While laws are good, there has to be a better way to go about slowly punishing undocumented immigrants (and make them legal if they are willing) without inciting violence, death, racism, and a crash to our economy. Not seeing the problems in such a plan is just dumb on so many levels.


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[Bible Highlighter]

And i am sorry but this is just histrionics....

Yes, history says it would be a disaster if Trump were to deport people in large groups. Think about if you were undocumented? Or if you found out that one of your friends was undocumented and they wanted to be legal? Would you report him? Seeing his family crying and enciting violence? Go for it. Live in that world. It would not be pretty.


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[civilwarbuff]

there has to be a better way to go about slowly punishing undocumented immigrants (and make them legal if they are willing)

What is the reasoning behind making someone who came here illegally a legal resident? Why reward a person for breaking our law?

without inciting violence, death, racism, and a crash to our economy.

As I noted, pure histrionics.........

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What is the reasoning behind making someone who came here illegally a legal resident? Why reward a person for breaking our law?

As I noted, pure histrionics.........

Part of God's grace is that we used to be sinners or breakers of God's Laws. But if we repent, we can be forgiven. But deporting people (when many of them want to be legal) is a huge problem. It is turning people into being the enemy (When they don't need to be an enemy). There are many undocumented individuals who are productive members of soceity.


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[civilwarbuff]

Yes, history says it would be a disaster if Trump were to deport people in large groups. Think about if you were undocumented? Or if you found out that one of your friends was undocumented and they wanted to be legal? Would you report him? Seeing his family crying and enciting violence? Go for it. Live in that world. It would not be pretty.


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There is this little thing called the law that those of us who prefer to live in a civilized country agree to abide by......not just some of the laws but all of them.....if you insist on picking and choosing which laws you want to obey then we might as well live in a 3rd world country where such things are commonplace.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Part of God's grace is that we used to be sinners or breakers of God's Laws. But if we repent, we can be forgiven. But deporting people (when many of them want to be legal) is a huge problem. It is turning people into being the enemy (When they don't need to be an enemy). There are many undocumented individuals who are productive members of soceity.


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But we, as Christians, are directed to obey the laws of those appointed over us, are we not?....and not just the ones we agree with either.....