Is it time for Donald to bow out? (MOVED)

[Bible Highlighter]

But we, as Christians, are directed to obey the laws of those appointed over us, are we not?....and not just the ones we agree with either.....

Only if they do not conflict with God's laws. Also, you probably don't know of anyone you care about who has went thru the immigration process. People can be made legal here. Why make it difficult for them? Was not this nation founded on immigration? Was not this nation formed as a result of people rebelling from England? In other words, if you are not a Native American, then your family were immigrants.

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[civilwarbuff]

Only if they do not conflict with God's laws.

But when our laws proscribe legal means, which of God's laws are we in conflict with?

People can be made legal here. Why make it difficult for them? Was not this nation founded on immigration? Was not this nation formed as a result of people rebelling from England?

That was long before borders were necessary for law and order....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But when our laws proscribe legal means, which of God's laws are we in conflict with?

Read this Christian article to find out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-gear/5-scriptures-that-should-end-donald-trump_b_8012218.html

That was long before borders were necessary for law and order....

Law...and...Order. I remember Trump saying this as a part of his solution for excessive police violence in the 1st presidential debate. It was just pure brilliance being displayed. As if those words alone are like a well thought out plan to take care of the situation. Looking back on that moment, I just shake my head and say, "Really?"

Technically, this country should belong to the Native Americans. But we pretty much just took it from them. Think Avatar: the movie. Yes, we gave them a place to live. But we stole their land basically. We are immigrants to their land. Many original Native Americans believed the land belonged to everyone. It was something that everyone should share. Law and Order? More like we over powered them and took their land and claimed it as our own. Nobody followed the laws of the Native American. In essence, Americans rebelled against their country England and kicked the Indians out of power. But now that this country has been formed for a long time we obviously should obey our leaders if they do not conflict with God's Laws. But I am merely pointing out to you that the very formation of our nation was built upon rebellion and stealing that what did not belong to us. So I would not make our country out to be like this God ordained thing. We are no different than any other country.

Voting is optional and I am soooo thankful for the LORD in having that right. I know that it is not like that in Brazil. For it would be a hard choice to vote. If I was forced to vote and I was allowed to right in my vote, I would vote for Jesus Christ.


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[kingskid]

Voting is optional and I am soooo thankful for the LORD in having that right. I know that it is not like that in Brazil. For it would be a hard choice to vote. If I was forced to vote and I was allowed to right in my vote, I would vote for Jesus Christ.


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I'm confused because I thought you said you could not participate in voting because God would not forgive you for taking part in the evil of it. How would that be a "right" or "optional"? If you can't vote then you have no options.

 

[Aldebaran]

But look at the context again. This is not a wall built by New Covenant believers here on this Earth. It is a heavenly wall as a part of a heavenly city.

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So what? What does that have to do with enforcing immigration policy?

 

[Aldebaran]

First, this is a wall as a part of a Heavenly city and not an Earthly city. There is a vast difference of life here versus life for the believer in the after life. Christ builds a mansion for his saints but He does not desire them to build giant mansions for themselves here. Second, the wall is a picture of keeping the sinners separate from the righreous. This is not a wall to keep Mexicans out.

It sounds like you're not even trying to understand. Even the White House has a high fence to keep people out for security reasons. I suppose you'll try to differentiate between a fence and a wall now, but it doesn't matter. The point has been made.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm confused because I thought you said you could not participate in voting because God would not forgive you for taking part in the evil of it. How would that be a "right" or "optional"? If you can't vote then you have no options.

I said I would do a write in and vote for Jesus Christ.


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[Aldebaran]

Only if they do not conflict with God's laws. Also, you probably don't know of anyone you care about who has went thru the immigration process. People can be made legal here. Why make it difficult for them? Was not this nation founded on immigration? Was not this nation formed as a result of people rebelling from England? In other words, if you are not a Native American, then your family were immigrants.

Laws were put in place some time after that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It sounds like you're not even trying to understand. Even the White House has a high fence to keep people out for security reasons. I suppose you'll try to differentiate between a fence and a wall now, but it doesn't matter. The point has been made.

It is nowhere near as high as the wall that Trump plans to build.
Anyways, I don't expect you to understand.
If you want to vote for an evil sinful person, then go right ahead and do that.


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[Aldebaran]

Technically, this country should belong to the Native Americans. But we pretty much just took it from them.

But we are the children of immigrants! Should the children be punished for what our ancestors did many generations ago? (That's the logic used for anchor-babies born to illegals from Mexico).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Laws were put in place some time after that.

Still does not change that are nation was founded by a people who rebelled against government (i.e. England) in the first place. Yes, laws were formed after our nation was formed. But my point is that this nation is founded on immigration. The Native Americans (i.e. the Indians) were the original people of this land and we just basically took it from them. We rebelled against their ways or authority. Granted, we should obey our leaders only if it does not conflict with God's Laws. In other words, if the government told you to do something you believed to be sinful, would you do it?


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[Bible Highlighter]

But we are the children of immigrants! Should the children be punished for what our ancestors did many generations ago? (That's the logic used for anchor-babies born to illegals from Mexico).

It's just a piece of paper, pally. People who are made legal here just spend money and go thru the proper channels to be documented so as to be legal. You are treating people like criminals all because they are different or that they are called Mexican. That is not right. At least that is what it sounds like what you are saying to me. It sounds like you are saying, let's deport people who have been working here and who have been productive members of society and incite violence, death, racisim by doing so (even when these undocumented folk want to become legal).


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[Aldebaran]

Still does not change that are nation was founded by a people who rebelled against government (i.e. England) in the first place. Yes, laws were formed after our nation was formed. But my point is that this nation is founded on immigration. The Native Americans (i.e. the Indians) were the original people of this land and we just basically took it from them. We rebelled against their ways or authority. Granted, we should obey our leaders only if it does not conflict with God's Laws. In other words, if the government told you to do something you believed to be sinful, would you do it?

Did the native Americans have an established government with laws that were in place? Did they have a police or military to enforce them? Did they have any policies on immigration?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did the native Americans have an established government with laws that were in place? Did they have a police or military to enforce them? Did they have any policies on immigration?

It doesn't matter if they had detailed policies or not. They had beliefs in regards to the land and in regards to dealing with others. They didn't need to have it written down. They were the native people of this land and we should have deferred to them. But we didn't do that. We stole their land whether they liked it or not. Think Avatar: the movie.

I mean, would Jesus approve of what we did? Find me one Biblical example that it was okay for us to push a primitive people out of their own land. It's not right and you know it.


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[Aldebaran]

It's just a piece of paper pally. People who are made legal here just spend money and go thru the proper channels to be documented so as to be legal.

It involves more than just a piece of paper. Besides, you're the one who just got done posting to me that we're supposed to obey laws. Now you're saying it's just a piece of paper. If you're going to subscribe to certain logic, then at least use it consistently.

You are treating people like criminals all because they are different or that they are called Mexican. That is not right. At least that is what it sounds like what you are saying to me.

Wrong. It's because they broke the law and entered the country illegally. Doesn't matter what they're called or what they look like.

Let's deport people who have been working here and who have been productive instead of trying to make them legal. Let's turn the situation into a violent one for no reason by deporting people (When they desire to be legal).

Where do you get the "violence" from? If they desired to be legal, then they could have demonstrated so by entering the country the legal way.

 

[Aldebaran]

It doesn't matter if they had detailed policies or not. They had beliefs in regards to the land and in regards to dealing with others. They didn't need to have it written down. We took their land whether they liked it or not. Think Avatar: the movie.

I remember the movie. It sure had a lot of environmentalist/anti-capitalist themes to it.

I mean, would Jesus approve of what we did? Find me one Biblical example that it was okay for us to push a primitive people out of their own land. It's not right and you know it.

Please read the Old Testament. Especially the part about the Canaanites.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It involves more than just a piece of paper. Besides, you're the one who just got done posting to me that we're supposed to obey laws. Now you're saying it's just a piece of paper. If you're going to subscribe to certain logic, then at least use it consistently.

It is spending money and jumping threw hoops to get a document to say you are legal. But sometimes people do not have money and are poor. Are we to exclude people based on wealth? That doesn't sound honorable if you ask me. Yes, it is the reality of our country and I encourage everyone to do the right thing in regards to becoming a citizen. But technically it is not right to deport millions of undocumented people who are productive members of our soceity just because they are not fortunate enough to have money so that they can jump thru the right hoops.

Wrong. It's because they broke the law and entered the country illegally. Doesn't matter what they're called or what they look like.

What moral wrong have they done? How is it morally wrong? If they came here to do harm, that would be a different story. But if they came here to have a good life for their family and to be a citizen, then you are missing the point. For the way you are talking here reminds me of the time of when the Pharisees critized Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. Jesus said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. In other words, while obeying the Law of the land is very important, we also have to realize that God is also forgiving and loving, too. He knows a person's heart and does not wish them to perish but to repent. In other words, it is like you are saying we should be thrown in jail if we go 1 mile over the speed limit. There is a point of one being too excessive in their punishment for a particular crime.

I am trying to actually wonder if you have even watched Star Trek.

Here is a scene from the Next Generation so as to refresh your memory:

WORF: No response.
PICARD: Try them again. Boost the signal strength.
WORF: Sheliak Corporate. This is the starship Enterprise. Respond please.
(A vaguely humanoid blob appears, looking like lumps of mud)
SHELIAK [on viewscreen]: Conversation is neither required nor desired.
PICARD: Conversation is necessary if we are to find a solution to our mutual problem.
SHELIAK [on viewscreen]: Our involvement in Federation illegality is not indicated.
PICARD: Both parties are involved, sir.
SHELIAK [on viewscreen]: Remove the humans from the Tau Cygna system. Three Earth days remain.
PICARD: Let us negotiate in good faith.
SHELIAK [on viewscreen]: Negotiate to what purpose? The treaty is signed.
PICARD: There is a thriving colony on that planet. Rather than uproot these people, may I offer a compromise?
SHELIAK [on viewscreen]: Denied.
PICARD: Why?
SHELIAK [on viewscreen]: The law is paramount. We are entitled.
PICARD: This is not a law. It is a treaty. It is designed to smooth relations between peoples. Not to act as a strait
(Transmission ends)
PICARD: Jacket

http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/149.htm​

Where do you get the "violence" from? If they desired to be legal, then they could have demonstrated so by entering the country the legal way.

Not everyone has money and sometimes people are forced to feed their family. But the violence? Are you kidding me? What do you think is going to happen when you deport a couple of million people and put up a building high wall (as if to say the people on the other side are really bad criminals)?


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[Bible Highlighter]

I remember the movie. It sure had a lot of environmentalist/anti-capitalist themes to it.

It was a parallel of us taking the land from the Indians.

Please read the Old Testament. Especially the part about the Canaanites.

Oh, good. You want to talk about Scripture. Try reading this,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-gear/5-scriptures-that-should-end-donald-trump_b_8012218.html


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[Bible Highlighter]

Also, what makes matters worse with Trump's policies is that he said that even if a person was legal here before by being born here in the United States (with their parents not being citizens), the child is somehow magically not a citizen, too. Yet, the child was born on American soil. Trump wants to change that (and that's wrong).


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[Aldebaran]

It is spending money and jumping threw hoops to get a document to say you are legal. But sometimes people do not have money and are poor. Are we to exclude people based on wealth? That doesn't sound honorable if you ask me.

I'd like to go and visit other countries too. But that costs money. So should I sneak across the borders in order to go there? Then if I like it enough and find a job there, should I be allowed to stay?

Here's a question a lot closer to home for you: If you have a nice house and someone who doesn't have as much money as you can't afford a house like yours and decides to break into yours, should he be allowed to stay? Yeah, there are actually people who are doing that today.

What moral wrong have they done? How is it morally wrong?

We have laws for a reason. You believe in keeping our country safe, don't you?

I am trying to actually wonder if you have even watched Star Trek.

Of course I have. In fact, the CW channel is showing an episode from each series every night, so I've been getting my fill and remember the episode you're talking about. The situation being portrayed was one where some people needed a few more days to leave--but they were leaving. We're talking about people who have illegally come in the first place, and want to stay permanently. What message does that send to the Mexicans and others who have actually gone through the proper channels to do it the right way?

Not everyone has money and sometimes people are forced to feed their family. But the violence? Are you kidding me? What do you think is going to happen when you deport a couple of million people and put up a building high wall (as if to say the people on the other side are really bad criminals)?

Actually, it's to keep out the ones who would cross the border illegally. The border still would have legal crossing points. It has them right now, and people come and go through there all day long. It's only when you want to break the law that you climb over a wall rather than enter through the gate. Ever read "Pilgrim's Progress?"