Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

Kris Jordan · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
Is it wrong to have a Homosexual orientation? Does a person choose to have a Homosexual orientation or not ? Should someone with a Homosexual orientation try to change their orientation and make themselves into a Heterosexual ? Is it sinful to find men attractive?

Hi Mark45,

All people are born with a sinful nature. Some have a greater vulnerability or susceptibility toward the sin of homosexuality as opposed to others who may struggle with tendencies to commit other sins such as violence, alcoholism, lying, stealing, etc. Acting on our sinful temptations is where we cross the line into sin.

In my opinion, and in answer to your question ("Is it sinful to find [other] men attractive?"), I would give the same answer as I would to someone who asked if it was wrong for a heterosexual married man to find another married woman attractive: We are "attracted" to who we are "attracted" to. The issue is in what we do with those types of feelings. If we immediately recognize them as not being appropriate before the Lord and reject them (i.e., not acting on them in any way, not indulging them, not nurturing them, not fantasizing about the person, not lusting after them, etc., etc., etc.,), we do well. If we don't, we sin.

A question for you: Have you been born again?

Rebecca4Christ · Oct 10, 2019

MarcusT said:
My reaction to this difficult question is two-fold:

Firstly, I simply don't understand homosexuality, so it is easy for me to be critical of it.

Secondly, I find the biblical verses against homosexual acts convincing.

But clearly the Lutheran denomination I belong to will in the near future openly accept homosexual couples and give a blessing to them. In practice, even if not in theory, it already has.

It is a puzzling situation, but like I said, 'I don't have a dog in this fight', so my guess is I will follow the public teaching on this issue, what ever that may be in the near future.

Similarly, I have accepted female priests because they have been a fact as long as I have been a member of my congregation, that is all my life.

I don't know..Maybe I'm theologically lazy or - which is more likely - I'm theologically ignorant. In many controversial issues I have read convincing arguments for and against. It's difficult for a layman like me to adopt a strict position.

Of all things one might be lazy in,don't you think this is the most dangerous, with the most at stake?
Eta I ask this in love,not judgement.....

bèlla · Oct 10, 2019

Angospure,

That term was not a part of our vernacular in the past. Layered language is meant to confuse and distort the truth. It is best to operate from God’s precepts to unmask it.

We know the tree by the fruit it bears. What is the fruit? Exploitation. What type of tree produces this? Opportunists and predators.

That’s who you’re dealing with. Lofty terms can’t eradicate the truth. But they’re ideal for camouflage and deception. Since the output is sexual the spiritual influence is perversion. If it was violent you’d reference wrath instead.

Most people with same-sex attractions are not the victims of molestation or other abuses. If these activities warranted an attraction to ones sex the numbers would be significantly higher.

To suppose abuse diminishes the appeal of the opposite sex is to ignore the numbers within Christian circles who’ve suffered the same and didn’t turn to their sex.

Its a logical fallacy that makes little sense when you think it through.

~Bella

JackRT · Oct 10, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
God is radical and exactly like a black and white text book on the subject. He says what he expects of us, and expects what he says, so I suppose he figures that's the best approach.

In some of the Biblical passages on homosexuality it is far from clear exactly what is being condemned. This is addressed in the article I referenced in post #54 above. I regard the attitude toward homosexuality to be reflective of the cultural norms of that time and place.

Mark45 · Oct 10, 2019

aiki said:
Yes.

Ultimately, yes. Though, there are various psycho-social factors influencing the development of homosexual behaviour over which a person may not have much direct control.

They don't have to make themselves heterosexual; they are heterosexual by default. If any "making" is going on, it is in the direction of homosexuality.

Not if you're a woman.

How can a Homosexual orientation by wrong or sinful ? Surely there’s a difference between homosexual orientation and practice?

Quartermaine · Oct 10, 2019

The Bible contains 6 admonishments for homosexuals and 362 admonishments for heterosexuals. That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love straight people, they just need more supervision. - Lynn Lavner

Quartermaine · Oct 10, 2019

Zachm531 said:
You cant be a Christian and have different beliefs than Jesus. Jesus and the OT are very clear on homosexuality.

Jesus never said anything about homosexuality

Quartermaine · Oct 10, 2019

Tolworth John said:
The bible clearly teaches that there is only one right form of sex. That between a man married to his wife.
All other forms of sex are unlawfull or sinful.

except for a man and his wives
a man and his concubines
a man and his slave
a man and his widowed sister-in-law
a man and a prisoner of war
a man and the (unmarried) woman he rapes

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
I think you have extreme views that are very disturbing. I can’t imagine how dreadful it would be if you had a son who was gay and you could only be radical and like a black & white text book towards him !

Don't be disturbed by me, as I am only a man.
Rather fear God who will destroy the body and the soul of those who oppose Him and transgress without turning to Him in Godly sorrow, pain for their sin, and repentance.

God's Word is Truth, and His Judgment is Final. For Eternity. Thus those whose sons or whose fathers are perverted transgressors, are lost like all other sinners, unless each one repents they perish and will receive no chance for mercy after dying, or sooner.

aiki · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
How can a Homosexual orientation by wrong or sinful ?

Such an orientation runs contrary to God's design. God does not create homosexuals. He does not make them oriented toward unnatural sexuality. People choose this God-defying "orientation" just as they do the behaviour it produces.

Mark45 said:
Surely there’s a difference between homosexual orientation and practice?

Yes, of course there is. But though different, homosexual "orientation" and practice share a common divergence from God's design for sexuality. In this respect, they both qualify as sinful.

rjs330 · Oct 10, 2019

Quartermaine said:
Jesus never said anything about homosexuality

No, but he did call Paul and the apostles and the Holy Spirit did inspire the scriptures they wrote. So they are the authority of God.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2019

rjs330 said:
No, but he did call Paul and the apostles and the Holy Spirit did inspire the scriptures they wrote. So they are the authority of God.

Jesus said a lot about perversion, even using vulgar language, and
Jesus taught His disciples and trained them how to deal with abominations.

Kenny'sID · Oct 10, 2019

JackRT said:
In some of the Biblical passages on homosexuality it is far from clear exactly what is being condemned. This is addressed in the article I referenced in post #54 above. I regard the attitude toward homosexuality to be reflective of the cultural norms of that time and place.

Yes, I've seen what people try to do with the word of God around here.

Let's try this, do you not get enough from the bible to know it's a damnable sin? I mean. let's not skip the parts that are very clear...as far as I'm concerned the clear scripture clears up any confusion.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 10, 2019

Quartermaine said:
The Bible contains 6 admonishments for homosexuals and 362 admonishments for heterosexuals. That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love straight people, they just need more supervision. - Lynn Lavner

Perversion was necessarily more rare, fewer participating in the abomination as gays.
Also, who repents ? If the heterosexuals repent, they may be forgiven, and are still heterosexual...
if the homosexuals repent, they may be forgiven, and are no longer homosexuals.

Kenny'sID · Oct 10, 2019

Mark45 said:
How can a Homosexual orientation by wrong or sinful ? Surely there’s a difference between homosexual orientation and practice?

Honestly, I never got why the question was ever brought up.

Let's grab any random sin from the shelf, say, theft. I claim I was either born a thief or I convinced myself I was one, either way, that is my orientation. As long as I don't steal from anyone, who cares?

HatedByAll · Oct 10, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Honestly, I never got why the question was ever brought up.

Let's grab any random sin from the shelf, say, theft. I claim I was either born a thief or I convinced myself I was one, either way, that is my orientation. As long as I don't steal from anyone, who cares?

The problem with saying that a man has to actually have sex with a man to sin is that Matthew 5:27–28 is just as applicable to homosexuals as it is to men who lust after women.

Quartermaine · Oct 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Perversion was necessarily more rare, fewer participating in the abomination as gays.
Also, who repents ? If the heterosexuals repent, they may be forgiven, and are still heterosexual...
if the homosexuals repent, they may be forgiven, and are no longer homosexuals.

what do they become?

Quartermaine · Oct 10, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Honestly, I never got why the question was ever brought up.

Let's grab any random sin from the shelf, say, theft. I claim I was either born a thief or I convinced myself I was one, either way, that is my orientation. As long as I don't steal from anyone, who cares?

you just compared gays to thieves. Racists have a long history of associating blacks with rape. both are pretty horrible and shameful things to do.

Quartermaine · Oct 10, 2019

aiki said:
Such an orientation runs contrary to God's design. God does not create homosexuals. He does not make them oriented toward unnatural sexuality. People choose this God-defying "orientation" just as they do the behaviour it produces.

Yes, of course there is. But though different, homosexual "orientation" and practice share a common divergence from God's design for sexuality. In this respect, they both qualify as sinful.

when exactly did you choose to be heterosexual?

aiki · Oct 10, 2019

Quartermaine said:
when exactly did you choose to be heterosexual?

Your question assumes it's premise (also known as Begging the Question) which is that there is biological equivalency between heterosexuality and homosexuality. There isn't. People are born heterosexual but they are not born homosexual. Homosexual twin studies, in particular, demonstrate this very clearly. In the case of monozygotic (identical) twins, there is a 50% or less concordance rate of homosexuality. Some twin studies that control carefully for bias have had concordance rates below 30%. If homosexuality is in the genes, there should be a 100% concordance rate of homosexuality between twins who share identical genetics. Clearly, homosexuality - unlike heterosexuality - is not biological in origin.

Is it sinful to have a Homosexual Orientation?

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