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Circumcision was never a means of salvation and the Apostles knew this better than anyone. You are manipulating people into bondage whom Christ set free from the law.Hi Discipler nice to see you and have a chat.
Acts 15 does not teach that God has one set of laws for Jewish Christians and another set of laws for gentile Christians. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16:27)
ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...
ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...
COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.
.............
ACTS 15 is not telling gentile believers that they are now free to break God's 10 Commandments.
You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.
ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.
...........
NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.
...........
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
...........
NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.
They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..
...........
[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
...........
NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.
...........
[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
...........
NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.
...........
[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
...........
NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...
ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.
If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.
1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15
You do not believe brother Der Alter, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?
...........
[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
.................
CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Hope this helps.
Circumcision was never a means of salvation and the Apostles knew this better than anyone. You are manipulating people into bondage whom Christ set free from the law.Hi Discipler nice to see you and have a chat.
Acts 15 does not teach that God has one set of laws for Jewish Christians and another set of laws for gentile Christians. Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16:27)
ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...
ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...
COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.
.............
ACTS 15 is not telling gentile believers that they are now free to break God's 10 Commandments.
You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.
ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.
...........
NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.
...........
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
...........
NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.
They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..
...........
[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
...........
NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.
...........
[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
...........
NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.
...........
[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
...........
NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...
ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.
If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.
1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15
You do not believe brother Der Alter, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?
...........
[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
.................
CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Hope this helps.
Circumcision was never a means of salvation and the Apostles knew this better than anyone. You are manipulating people into bondage whom Christ set free from the law.
Moses imported circumcision into the Old Covenant. To say the Apostles only told the gentile converts not to circumcise but still keep the rest of the law breaks the Ten Commandments. Because it is a lie.Now Dave that is not true now is it? Posting the same thing over and over does not make it come true. You do not believe that CIRCUMCISION are the 10 Commandments now do you?
You have your shadow laws mixed up from the Mosaic book of the covenant with God's eternal laws see post # 50 linked. You are only in bondage if you are continuing in sin.
Jesus did not set us from from the law so we are free to break it.
Moses imported circumcision into the Old Covenant. To say the Apostles only told the gentile converts not to circumcise but still keep the rest of the law breaks the Ten Commandments. Because it is a lie.Now Dave that is not true now is it? Posting the same thing over and over does not make it come true. You do not believe that CIRCUMCISION are the 10 Commandments now do you?
You have your shadow laws mixed up from the Mosaic book of the covenant with God's eternal laws see post # 50 linked. You are only in bondage if you are continuing in sin.
Jesus did not set us from from the law so we are free to break it.
Moses imported circumcision into the Old Covenant. To say the Apostles only told the gentile converts not to circumcise but still keep the rest of the law breaks the Ten Commandments. Because it is a lie.Now Dave that is not true now is it? Posting the same thing over and over does not make it come true. You do not believe that CIRCUMCISION are the 10 Commandments now do you?
You have your shadow laws mixed up from the Mosaic book of the covenant with God's eternal laws see post # 50 linked. You are only in bondage if you are continuing in sin.
Jesus did not set us from from the law so we are free to break it.
Moses imported circumcision into the Old Covenant. To say the Apostles only told the gentile converts not to circumcise but still keep the rest of the law breaks the Ten Commandments. Because it is a lie.
The Abrahamic covenant remained until Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Moses was under it too.Where is CIRCUMCISION talked about in the 10 Commandments? see post # 50 linked.
You mix up the Shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the covenant with God's eternal laws and ignore the scripture just posted to you in the linked post above.
That is adding to Scripture, ie by tying the keeping of the Sabbath with learning to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. ...WE just tell the new believers because they will be learning every Sabbath to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Hi All,
Just hoping to hear your thoughts on if you believe it is still sin to break God's 10 Commandments?
Let's make it clear from the beginning however, NONE are saved by the works of the law (keeping God's 10 Commandments). We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8).
The purpose of God's LAW is to only give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; Psalms 119:172) to lead us to the foot of the cross so we can see ourselves as sinners in need of a Saviour (Galatians 3:22-25). Our righteousness is be faith in God's WORD not in anything that we can do (Romans 3:25; Philippians 3:9). We need to be Born again to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in that heart of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the WORDS of GOD (1 John 3:3-9; Romans 13:8-10; Hebrews 8:10-12)
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Here is my thoughts. I believe if we disregard any of God's WORD then it is SIN to us because it is written, to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin (James 4:17). So, if the 10 Commandments are God's WORD. Then I believe it is sin to break them.
Here are some scriptures I have found in the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT saying that breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments is SIN.
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SIN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BREAKING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS (Summarized)
God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus say the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7).
Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20). Jacob knew about sin when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).
When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).
God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). When Moses was delayed on the Mount with God the children of ISRAEL made an Idol and worshipped it breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandment (Exodus 20:3-5). Moses said to them after he returned, you have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin (Exodus 32:30; Deuteronomy 9:16-18). Moses said to Aaron that by making an idol for the people to worship that it was a great sin (Exodus 32:21; 30). God would punish the children of Israel for their sin of Idol worship (Exodus 32:34).
God said to Moses in reference to breaking the 10 Commandments; Whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book (Exodus 32:33).
God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). Joshua says stealing is sin (Joshua 7:11). Achan knew when he was caught stealing that he sinned (Joshua 7:20).
When God's people forsake God to worship other God's, they also confess that they had sinned in breaking God's commandments (Judges 10:10;15). Samuel made atonement for God's people when they wanted to return to God confessing that they had sinned after they worshipped other Gods breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandments (1 Samuel 7:5; 12:10; Exodus 20:2-5).
King Saul wanted to kill David, but Jonathon spoke good of David saying to him no to sin against David by killing him (1 Samuel 19:4). David cut the skirt of King Saul in the cave and said to him that he could have killed him if he wanted to but did not sin against him by sparing his life (1 Samuel 24:11). King Saul replied that in wanting to kill David he had sinned (1 Samuel 26:21).
When David became king he desired Bathsheba who was another man’s wife and organized for her husband Uriah the Hitite to be sent to the front line of battle to be killed. God sent Nathan to David and David confessed in doing this that he had sinned in breaking God's 6th and 7th Commandment (Exodus 20:13:14). David confessed that he had sinned to breaking God's LAW (1 Samuel 12:13).
Now we can also go through all the evil Kings of Israel that sinned against God by following and worshipping other Gods which is also defined as sin in God's WORD but there would be too many scriptures (2 Kings 17:7). God testified that they served other Gods and idols sending them prophets to warn them of their sins (2 Kings 17:12-13; 16-17). We are also told that King Manasseh also broke God's 6th commandment and killed more innocent people then most others testifying that by doing this he had sinned (2 Kings 16:17). God continued to send prophets to warn his people of the consequences of sin (Nehemiah 9:30). God's people continued in their sins forsaking God's LAW (10 commandments) and in doing so God left them and Israel were overthrown and led into captivity to the other nations because they departed from God serving other God's and idols. Nehemiah knew this and prayed to God confessing their sins (Nehemiah 1:6-9). God's people continued to sin against God by worshipping other Gods despite the warning of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 44:18-23). In despite of God's Word teaching that God's people had forsaken the 10 commandments and sinned against God, going into captivity, God promised he would bring them back when they returned to him and heal them from their sins of breaking his commandments (Ezekiel 37:22-23).
Hosea testified by the Word of the Lord that God's people by making idols and worshipping other god's, lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery would receive the judgments of God because they had sinned by departing from the 10 Commandments (Hosea 4:1-19).
The word of the Lord came to Zephaniah saying that all those who continue in sin by worshipping other God's and breaking his commandments will be destroyed off the land because they have sinned against God (Zephaniah 1:2-17).
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Yep pretty clear that in the OLD TESTAMENT if God's people broke any of the 10 Commandments it was SIN.
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Now it is interesting all the 10 Commandments are repeated in the NEW TESTAMENT. Is it still sin in the NEW TESTAMENT to break and of God's 10 Commandments?
NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES
JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW
Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?
ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.
Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)
links to...
1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.
John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.
God's WORD in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT says very clearly that if we break ANY of the 10 Commandments it is indeed SIN and we become guilty before God if we are CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPETANT SIN.
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Ok my friends. What are your thoughts?
Is it SIN to break any of the 10 COMMANDMENTS that were written and spoken by GOD?
May God bless you all as you seek him through his WORD
The Abrahamic covenant remained until Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Moses was under it too.
I know exactly what the Old Covenant was.Not really Dave if you do not know what the old covenant is how can you know what the new is? see post # 50 linked.
Without the 10 Commandments we would not know what sin is.
When we accept Jesus ... the Holy Spirit begins to work within us helping us to overcome our sins .... it is a life-long process.
The basic process is this:
The Holy Spirit first works "on us" ... leading us to Jesus.
Once we accept Jesus ... then the Holy Spirit works "in us" ... over time helping us to overcome our sin .... again a life-long process and certainly not without some stumbling along the way
Then, the Holy Spirit works "through us" .... the sharing of the good news of Jesus with others.
Without the 10 Commandments we would not know what sin is.
When we accept Jesus ... the Holy Spirit begins to work within us helping us to overcome our sins .... it is a life-long process.
The basic process is this:
The Holy Spirit first works "on us" ... leading us to Jesus.
Once we accept Jesus ... then the Holy Spirit works "in us" ... over time helping us to overcome our sin .... again a life-long process and certainly not without some stumbling along the way
Then, the Holy Spirit works "through us" .... the sharing of the good news of Jesus with others.
I know exactly what the Old Covenant was.
Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant
“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28
“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:
“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:
“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:
“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9
“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21
The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.
Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)
FatalHeart said:God will still judge everyone by the law and everyone will be punished and rewarded according to what they have done. See Romans 2. "You will reap what you sow."
HEBREWS.10: = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?Where does Scripture say that God will judge Gentiles by the Law?
You are breaking the Ten Commandments saying the Sabbath is for today when it is not.Hi Dave, maybe we will need to agree to disagree. You just keep repeating your same post without addressing post # 50 linked, that shows that the OLD COVENANT included both God's 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws from the Mosiac Book of the COVENANT. These scriptures show you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is.
IS THE OLD COVENANT ONLY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS?
This is where many make their mistake because they do not read ALL of the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. Indeed God's 10 Commandments were a part of what made up the OLD COVENANT but they were only a part of it not all of it.
The OLD COVENANT was made up of both God's 10 Commandments and the the prophetic Shadow laws for remission of sin from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT that pointed to Christ and God's plan of salvation. Let's look at the scriptures in detail...
The OLD COVENANT was made up of many sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL, ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin and sin offerings for the SANCTUARY and PRIESTHOOD [Levitical].
EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.
The Old Covenant included; The 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT...
1. GOD'S LAW (One scripture only as we already agree on this)
EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.
and ...
2. THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Also part of the old covenant)
EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.
DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.
DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.
EXODUS 24 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.
DEUTERONOMY 29 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.
DEUTERONOMY 31 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.
2 KINGS 23 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.
2 KINGS 23 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the COVENANT.
2 KINGS 23 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.
2 CHRONICLES 34 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.
2 CHRONICLES 34 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
...............
* Yep, the OLD COVENANT is not just the 10 Commandments it includes the prophetic SHADOW LAWS FROM THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT*
More scriptures in the linked post above. You just chose to ignore them all. So we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your thoughts though.
This is not talking about The Sabbath Day--but sabbath Days--the Jewish feasts were called sabbaths, also. This was Paul talking to the new Christians and telling them to not let the Jews intimidate them about them having to keep the feast days--sabbaths.
The over 600 laws were dealing with the sacrificial system. All those were done away with at the cross for Jesus is our Sacrificial Lamb--and also our High Priest. The laws of Moses, the ceremonial laws, were kept outside the ark of the covenant---only the 10, those alone, were written by the hand of God Himself, and were kept in the middle of the ark itself.
There was a loud and very boisterous upheaval over the fact that circumcision was no longer needed. It was quite the uproar until they finally had to make it very clear and plain that it was no longer needed. If the 4th commandment had been abolished, there would have been an even greater uproar and upheaval and it would have had to be very clearly and very plainly stated that it was no longer needed either---there was no such thing said about it.
This is not talking about The Sabbath Day--but sabbath Days--the Jewish feasts were called sabbaths, also. This was Paul talking to the new Christians and telling them to not let the Jews intimidate them about them having to keep the feast days--sabbaths.
The over 600 laws were dealing with the sacrificial system. All those were done away with at the cross for Jesus is our Sacrificial Lamb--and also our High Priest. The laws of Moses, the ceremonial laws, were kept outside the ark of the covenant---only the 10, those alone, were written by the hand of God Himself, and were kept in the middle of the ark itself.
There was a loud and very boisterous upheaval over the fact that circumcision was no longer needed. It was quite the uproar until they finally had to make it very clear and plain that it was no longer needed. If the 4th commandment had been abolished, there would have been an even greater uproar and upheaval and it would have had to be very clearly and very plainly stated that it was no longer needed either---there was no such thing said about it.
That is adding to Scripture, ie by tying the keeping of the Sabbath with learning to abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. ...
ACTS.15 = 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
ACTS.21: = And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
You are breaking the Ten Commandments saying the Sabbath is for today when it is not.
You are breaking the Ten Commandments saying the Sabbath is for today when it is not.
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