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God is my judge brother not you. We are not to judge each other. (Romans 2:1-13)
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Okay, you keep telling yourself that.
Yes, he was obviously antagonizing them. The issue was work on the Sabbath and Jesus admitted to that.
John 5:17
In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
Alright Neogaia.
Thank you for the "heart likes."
While I disagree strongly with your view here, I think it is time to give it a rest because I do not see you addressing the verses I brought forth.
In any event, may God bless you this fine eventing.
With loving kindness to you in Christ,
Sincerely,
~ Jason.
Besides/And we've been here before, you and I Jason, and I kind of almost get a feeling of nostalgia or deja'vu about it, and I just feel like it's beating a dead horse at this point really...This is over philosophy, differences of opinion, and I don't think that has to lead to any kind of "personal problems" at all, or things against the person...
Anyway, Much Love and kindness to you brother,
God Bless!
Or these hugs can be in greeting to someone...@Jason0047 , the "hearts" are like hugs, and it's the kind when you are talking to each other, and the other one has a lot of ideas, and is talking about them, and Some things sometimes you may not get what they mean, sometimes you think they could be maybe even wrong on some things maybe, but, you let it go, smile at them, and extend a hand and/or give them a hug and offer a smile anyway, and show them love anyway, holding nothing against them personally, then, go on your separate ways...
God Bless!
Let's say a Gentile alcoholic man somehow got saved through faith in Jesus Christ = he becomes a Gentile Christian alcoholic who is exempted from most of the burdensome parts of God's laws or Moses Law, including LEVITICUS.10:9(Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink), as per ACTS.15:24-29.Then you are presented with a contradiction in Scripture because the Bible is clear that if a believer does not love their neighbor, then they are not saved.
"Though he repents of not loving his neighbors, he just can't help himself." (keeps doing it)...Let's say a Gentile alcoholic man somehow got saved through faith in Jesus Christ = he becomes a Gentile Christian alcoholic who is exempted from most of the burdensome parts of God's laws or Moses Law, including LEVITICUS.10:9(Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink), as per ACTS.15:24-29.
As an alcoholic, he tends to not love his neighbors, eg steals/cheats money from his neighbors, in order to indulge in his addiction or bad/evil habit. Though he repents of not loving his neighbors, he just can't help himself. Also, he will lead a sad and short life on earth, eg dies young from liver cirrhosis. Will he be still saved from hell when he dies.? As per the promises of God at JOHN.3:16, I think he will still be saved because of his faith in Christ, similar to the dying robber at LUKE.23:43.
Some will say that God/Jesus would heal the Gentile Christian alcoholic man of his addiction. That's fine.
You are putting the cart before the horse.Then you are presented with a contradiction in Scripture because the Bible is clear that if a believer does not love their neighbor, then they are not saved.
If they gave even one little one a cup of water... They loved... And in that I think love is expressed...You are putting the cart before the horse.
A person who has been saved through faith in Jesus Christ will have God's laws written on his/her hearts and minds(HEBREWS.10:15), thus walking in the Spirit and fulfilling the Law, eg love God/Jesus and love his/her neighbor.
....... This is especially true for Jewish Christians who have kept God's laws from childhood but mostly not true for Gentile Christians who previously as Gentiles, have not kept God's laws from childhood. Hence, the exemptions from the Law given by God to Gentile Christians at ACTS.15:24-29.
Making the Old Testament law, "love your neighbor" as a requirement for salvation may trip some weak Gentile Christians into work-based salvation or salvation through the keeping of the Law, and into losing their faith in Christ when they somehow could not religiously keep this OT law, eg Gentile Christian alcoholics, drug addicts, etc.
That is why alcoholics and the robber of LUKE.23:43 died young, ie the breaking of God's laws will result in earthly curses from God.(DEUTERONOMY.28:15) Repentance from sins will save both believers from hell when they die. ..."Though he repents of not loving his neighbors, he just can't help himself." (keeps doing it)...
Did he repent...?
Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you but...? Repentance when they die or before they die...? And if we want to do it earlier, but (and if we're being honest) find ourselves still sinning and not able to change all of it permanently or completely, then what...?That is why alcoholics and the robber of LUKE.23:43 died young, ie the breaking of God's laws will result in earthly curses from God.(DEUTERONOMY.28:15) Repentance from sins will save both believers from hell when they die. ...
MATTHEW.4:17 = "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand".
God bless.
To be saved from hell, believers need to first repent of their inherited or inborn Adam's Original Sin,(ROMANS.5:12) ie the original unintentional sin that causes all fallen Man to have evil/satanic/sinful thoughts of hate, anger, lust, greed, selfishness, jealousy, pride, fear/worry, doubt, etc in their hearts.Not that I'm totally disagreeing with you but...? Repentance when they die or before they die...? And if we want to do it earlier, but (and if we're being honest) find ourselves still sinning and not able to change all of it permanently or completely, then what...?
Are you denying the humanity of Christ? Was he not a man for whom you claim the Sabbath was made? I believe Christ was laying the law aside.That is not the point. Does The Father NEED rest? The Sabbath was made for man. The work He does is good.
The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. All other laws related to them. All became obsolete with the New Covenant.They were part only part of the OLD COVENANT you ignore the fact that it was both the 10 Commandments and the Mosaic book of the covenant that made up the OLD COVENANT.
EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the ten commandments.
EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.
The OLD COVENANT was written on stone and in a book. The NEW COVENANT is written in the heart to LOVE (Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40) God's LAW on stone brings us to the NEW COVENANT in the SPIRIT (Galatians 3:22-25; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11; Hebrews 8:10-12; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-11). God's 10 commandments have the same role as they did in the OLD COVENANT and that is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; James 2:8-12; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172) and to show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour so that we might be fogiven by faith and be born again to walk in God's Spirit of LOVE (Romans 2:5:13; Romans 3:9-20; Galatians 3:22-25)
Sorry Dave, God's WORD disagrees with your teachings that the 10 commandments are abolished.
Hope this helps.
We use the Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary. But we live according to the Two Great Commandments requiring Love for God and people. Without love, all is sin, even keeping the Ten Commandments.Good so you agree now that God's LAW is in the NEW COVENANT and it's role is to lead sinners to Christ? Hope you can understand what you have just posted. It goes against your teaching that God's 10 commandments are abolished.
Hope this helps.
Why did the Jews try to kill Paul if he believed as you do?Paul never taught agianst the Sabbath and kept it with both JEWS and GENTILES.
Acts 13
14, And when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
15, And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, You men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
42, And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. <Why wait till the next Sabbath?>
43, Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44, And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 16
13, And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a riverside, where prayer was accustomed to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women who met there.
Acts 17
1, Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews:
2, And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18
4, And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5, And when Silas and Timothy were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the word, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.
Sorry Dave, God's WORD disagres with you.
Hello Jason, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
However why have you not responded to the post you are quoting from that disagrees with you? You have not adressed the post and any scripture in it at all accept to make different claims no one is talking about.
If someone writes you are post you need to adress it to discuss it. Your post does not adress the scriptures posted in post # 165 linked above.
Some comments for your consideration below.
Nope! God's Covenant has changed not his law. You mix up the shadow laws from the MOSAIC book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) with God's eternal law (Psalms 19:9-11) that give us a knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; Psalms 119:172). If God's Law is eternal how can they change (Psalms 19:9-11)? If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?
Nope! Gods 4th commandment is not part of the Mosaic book of the laws it is written in the 10 Commandments which were written on two tables of stone with the other 9.
Where is circumcision, animal sacrifices written under the 10 Commandments?
Again, you are mixing up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) with God's eternal law (Psalm 19:9-11) that give us a knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; Psalms 119:172). If God's Law is eternal how can they change (Psalms 19:9-11)? If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?
Now your argument is that the 10 Commandments is written for Israel but we have to keep 9 of them in the NEW COVENANT but the 4th commandment we no longer have to? Not very consistant brother. Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment is now abolsihed and we are not commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
Who is God's ISRAEL under the NEW COVENANT? Gentiles are now grafted into God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:16-27). If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).
ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.
ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Dear brother your now taking scripture out of CONTEXT. 2 Corinthians 3 is talkiing about the OLD to the NEW COVENANT. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is?
CONTEXT is
2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-10
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
[4], And such trust have we through Christ toward God:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6], Who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
[7], But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8], How shall not the ministry of the Spirit be more glorious?
[9], For if the ministry of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10], For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.
Now take a look at v3 highlighted in RED which is the CONTEXT or what follows.
Now take a look at the NEW COVENANT promise from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated by the same same author as Corinthians in Hebrews 8:10-12 and 10:16-17
Hebrews 8:10-12
[10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
2 Corinthians 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of God's LAW written on the heart through LOVE by His Spirit. Moving from the tables of stone to the fleshly tables of the heart (2 Cor 3:3; Hebrews 8:10)
Let's look at the scriptures laid out together side by side...
2 CORINTHIANS 3:3, [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
links to...
Hebrews 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
links to...
JEREMIAH 31:33 [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
links to...
EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
links to...
2 CORINTHIANS 3:3 [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
continuing in Ezekiel 36..
[27], And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.
God's Spirit of love...
ROAMNS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.
.................
CONCLUSION: 2 Cor 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of LOVE written on the heart to walk in God's LAW, through LOVE. It is NOT talking about ABOLISHING God's LAW it is talking about FULFILLING God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD. This is RIGHTEOUSNESS (Salvation) by FAITH for a SINNER that BELIEVES the WORD'S of the SAVIOUR (JESUS). What is being ABOLISHED is the condemnation and the penalty of sin [DEATH] through FAITH in Christ by walking in the Spirit under the NEW COVENANT.
................
SIN is still the same as it has always been which is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.
Sorry Jason God's WORD disagrees with you
I have not addressed every bit and piece you wrote because I know it is not going to convince you one bit. So I decided to make my case why your belief is totally unbiblical.
The reason I have not went back and forth with you is because I do not strive against matters of the law endlessly with someone who does not want to see. "Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time." (Titus 3:9) (NLT).
For you outright denied (within your recent post to me here) that the Law has changed. Yet, Scripture plainly says here below that the Law has changed.
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).
Colossians 2:16 is yet another verse you deny. "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).
So why should I argue back and forth with you when you do not want to see what these verses plainly say above? It would be futile. Only you can choose to not one day interpret Scripture in light of what you want to see.
Why did the Jews try to kill Paul if he believed as you do?
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