Is it right to blame or discredit an entire group over the actions of one bad person from the group?

[Occams Barber]

It's not Bible knowledge, especially as at least 3 of the questions were on Catholic doctrine. Of the 15 questions only 4 are directly tied to Biblical knowledge(Moses, the commandment, Abraham and Jesus' ministry) one is a general theological question, and 3 pertain to the differences between Catholics and protestants. So less than a question separation between atheists and other Christian groups doesn't speak to the question of Biblical knowledge.

The questions were categorised, by Pew, as "Bible and Christianity". My use of the term Biblical knowledge was a shorthand version of this assuming you'd taken the time to read and absorb the info I've given you.

The national survey included 32 questions. They are listed in this article:
U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey | Pew Research Center (pewforum.org)
along with the results for each question.

In my post (#57) I mentioned a separate DIY survey of 15 questions and provided a link.

OB

 

[Fervent]

The questions were categorised, by Pew, as "Bible and Christianity". My use of the term Biblical knowledge was a shorthand version of this assuming you'd taken the time to read and absorb the info I've given you.

The national survey included 32 questions. They are listed in this article:
U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey | Pew Research Center (pewforum.org)
along with the results for each question.

In my post (#57) I mentioned a separate DIY survey of 15 questions and provided a link.

OB

Yes, I understand that. Though the DIY survey is not entirely separate, and my point is that "Biblical knowledge" is not appropriate for what pew labels as "Bible and Christianity" given the breadth of topics covered under the heading especially as they include questions about Mormonism and a question about "prosperity gospel" under that heading. Religious knowledge is not the same thing as Biblical knowledge, and only by confusing the two does that poll demonstrate what is claimed. I haven't looked deep enough to see if they did anything about selection biases for the poll as well, but it really doesn't demonstrate a whole lot in the area that it is claimed to.

 

[Jay Sea]

Atheists are usually more conversant in Christianity than believers. Many have read the bible from cover to cover. I doubt a lack of ignorance prohibits them from seeing its merits. It’s probably the people.

I have known some atheists who were very conversant with the bible and who revered it as a book with merit and ancient wisdom applicable to today if read in context of the ancient societies. They however could not make the leap as they expressed their inability to accept Christianity. I suspect where we Christians fail is in our example of our life Ie. we are sometimes less able to put ourselves on the line for others while some who are atheists are. G-d move in mysterious ways to spread his blessings where He wills. I have been humbled by these friends generosity of spirit. They indeed have challenged me to step up. I pray I have in some little way become more what they would expect from a follower of the man they admired, Yeshua. Intellectual arguments will not persuade but G-d's grace working in His people will.
In Love
Jay Sea

 

[The happy Objectivist]

Even though I’m a Christian, I sometimes read atheists blogs because I like to see what nonbelievers are writing and thinking about. It helps me to better understand what people whose beliefs (or rather non-beliefs) that differ from my own see the world.

Several of the atheist sites I visit with some regularity have reported on the recent spree shooter who gunned downed eight Asian massage ladies. They specifically noted about how the killer, Robert Aaron Long, was a Baptist who was involved with his church and very much committed to his faith. The bloggers, who are undoubtedly hostile towards religion, wanted to discredit Christianity by pointing out the religious background of the said spree shooter.

Thinking about this, I decided to post a thread about it. Namely, I want to raise the subject with this question: Is it ethically right to blame an entire group based on one bad person’s immoral actions from that group?

For example, let’s say a person from a certain race commits a heinous, violent crime. Would it be acceptable to blame an entire ethnic group because one person from that ethnic group committed a very terrible crime? Of course not! People would call the idea racist.

If a black American kills a white cop, everyone would say it is racist if a reporter, journalist, or blogger decided to castigate all black Americans over it. And rightfully so. Meanwhile, if a Baptist (or at least someone who claims to be Baptist) kills eight massage ladies in a horrific crime, these atheists bloggers seem to think it’s absolutely okay to imply that all of Christianity is bad based solely on the actions of one awful “Christian.” Do these people not see how unfair their thinking is?

No, it's not.

 

[Strathos]

I agree with those who say that it depends upon the ideology of the group in question. Nowhere in the Bible does it encourage murdering women because you find them sexually tempting.

 

[Nine of Spades]

Where is the word "please" in this post?

You reminded me of an experience I had at the gym about three weeks ago. As I exited the place and went on my way to the car, I heard a woman shout at me in a sarcastic voice, “Thank you for holding the door open for me. That was so sweet of you!” Of course I didn’t hold the door open for her, and I didn’t even see the woman. She was overweight and unattractive, but had she been pretty maybe I would have held the door open for her. Regardless, it was incredibly entitled for her to expect me to be obsequious and polite, not realizing I hadn’t even seen her in the first place.

The way I write, as well as the way I speak in general, is direct and straightforward. I make my point with fewer words. And I don’t add disclaimers to ideas that people might not like, nor do I pepper my speech with insincere politeness. That’s my style.

 

[disciple Clint]

And your evidence for this biased statement is..? (Your last phrase clearly indicates your right-wing thinking).

I believe I asked a question, which means that the reader is welcome to state their beliefs. Feel free to express your opinion

 

[Kylie]

Even though I’m a Christian, I sometimes read atheists blogs because I like to see what nonbelievers are writing and thinking about. It helps me to better understand what people whose beliefs (or rather non-beliefs) that differ from my own see the world.

Several of the atheist sites I visit with some regularity have reported on the recent spree shooter who gunned downed eight Asian massage ladies. They specifically noted about how the killer, Robert Aaron Long, was a Baptist who was involved with his church and very much committed to his faith. The bloggers, who are undoubtedly hostile towards religion, wanted to discredit Christianity by pointing out the religious background of the said spree shooter.

Thinking about this, I decided to post a thread about it. Namely, I want to raise the subject with this question: Is it ethically right to blame an entire group based on one bad person’s immoral actions from that group?

For example, let’s say a person from a certain race commits a heinous, violent crime. Would it be acceptable to blame an entire ethnic group because one person from that ethnic group committed a very terrible crime? Of course not! People would call the idea racist.

If a black American kills a white cop, everyone would say it is racist if a reporter, journalist, or blogger decided to castigate all black Americans over it. And rightfully so. Meanwhile, if a Baptist (or at least someone who claims to be Baptist) kills eight massage ladies in a horrific crime, these atheists bloggers seem to think it’s absolutely okay to imply that all of Christianity is bad based solely on the actions of one awful “Christian.” Do these people not see how unfair their thinking is?

For any group, there is a common element or elements that defines them as a group. For example, if you have a group of Star Trek fans, then their fandom of Star trek is their common element. If there is a group of ornithologists, then their study of birds is the common element.

If a person from a group carries out some action which you disagree with, then whether or not you believe that all members of the group are bad because of it depends on whether the person in question carried out that action because of the common element that all members of the group share.

For example, if you think it is morally wrong to watch Star Trek and a Star Trek fan watches an episode of Star Trek, then concluding that all Star Trek fans are morally wrong is justified (from your own "watching-Star-Trek-is-wrong' point of view anyway). But if a Star Trek fan eats a chocolate chip biscuit and you believe that eating choc chip biscuits is wrong, then you cannot conclude that all Star Trek fans are equally wrong, because eating choc chip biscuits is not part of the common element.

In this case, then unless the atheists believe that "gunning down Asian massage ladies" is one of the common elements of being a Baptist, then they can't conclude that all Baptists are just as wrong.

For my part, I don't think that such a thing is a common element among Baptists.

 

[Larniavc]

Well interesting the Crabapple Baptist Church has locked all their online presence.
To be expected I suppose.
My take is this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a mentally ill young man who's guilt over sexual sin turned into a massacre. He is a deeply troubled man.

Or he’s just a normal American white right wing domestic terrorist. Like most of the people who go on mass shootings.

No need to invoke mental health issues. It’s just his sincerely held beliefs.

 

[Robban]

Even though I’m a Christian, I sometimes read atheists blogs because I like to see what nonbelievers are writing and thinking about. It helps me to better understand what people whose beliefs (or rather non-beliefs) that differ from my own see the world.

Several of the atheist sites I visit with some regularity have reported on the recent spree shooter who gunned downed eight Asian massage ladies. They specifically noted about how the killer, Robert Aaron Long, was a Baptist who was involved with his church and very much committed to his faith. The bloggers, who are undoubtedly hostile towards religion, wanted to discredit Christianity by pointing out the religious background of the said spree shooter.

Thinking about this, I decided to post a thread about it. Namely, I want to raise the subject with this question: Is it ethically right to blame an entire group based on one bad person’s immoral actions from that group?

For example, let’s say a person from a certain race commits a heinous, violent crime. Would it be acceptable to blame an entire ethnic group because one person from that ethnic group committed a very terrible crime? Of course not! People would call the idea racist.

If a black American kills a white cop, everyone would say it is racist if a reporter, journalist, or blogger decided to castigate all black Americans over it. And rightfully so. Meanwhile, if a Baptist (or at least someone who claims to be Baptist) kills eight massage ladies in a horrific crime, these atheists bloggers seem to think it’s absolutely okay to imply that all of Christianity is bad based solely on the actions of one awful “Christian.” Do these people not see how unfair their thinking is?

What if he had belonged to a mosque?

 

[Nine of Spades]

What if he had belonged to a mosque?

Are you implying that because I’m a Republican I would have inconsistent thinking on this subject and blame all Muslims for terrorism committed by one crazy Muslim or a group of crazy Muslims?

I’m from the city of Houston, which is the fourth largest city in the United States. Because of the low living expenses, high wages, and excellent job opportunities here, my city is an attractive destination for immigrants who relocate to the US from all over the world. My next door neighbor is a Muslim. His name is Khaleed, an immigrant from Lebanon. He works an IT job and lives a normal life and has a normal family. His religion doesn’t make him any different. I’ve known many Muslims here in Houston, some of them were my friends when I was in school. They are all ordinary people.

I already know that Islamic terrorists are outliers and the majority of Muslims don’t support violence, terrorism, or extremism. My personal experiences with Muslim Americans have made me believe that Muslims are normal people like everyone else.

By the way, survey data on Muslim Americans’ political views incline Republican on issues they endorse. Do you think the Republican Party is hostile towards Muslims? That isn’t actually the case.

 

[FireDragon76]

Even though I’m a Christian, I sometimes read atheists blogs because I like to see what nonbelievers are writing and thinking about. It helps me to better understand what people whose beliefs (or rather non-beliefs) that differ from my own see the world.

Several of the atheist sites I visit with some regularity have reported on the recent spree shooter who gunned downed eight Asian massage ladies. They specifically noted about how the killer, Robert Aaron Long, was a Baptist who was involved with his church and very much committed to his faith. The bloggers, who are undoubtedly hostile towards religion, wanted to discredit Christianity by pointing out the religious background of the said spree shooter.

Thinking about this, I decided to post a thread about it. Namely, I want to raise the subject with this question: Is it ethically right to blame an entire group based on one bad person’s immoral actions from that group?

For example, let’s say a person from a certain race commits a heinous, violent crime. Would it be acceptable to blame an entire ethnic group because one person from that ethnic group committed a very terrible crime? Of course not! People would call the idea racist.

If a black American kills a white cop, everyone would say it is racist if a reporter, journalist, or blogger decided to castigate all black Americans over it. And rightfully so. Meanwhile, if a Baptist (or at least someone who claims to be Baptist) kills eight massage ladies in a horrific crime, these atheists bloggers seem to think it’s absolutely okay to imply that all of Christianity is bad based solely on the actions of one awful “Christian.” Do these people not see how unfair their thinking is?

If the individual's behavior is based on beliefs shared by the group, then it's not unreasonable to find fault in their beliefs.

 

[Robban]

Are you implying that because I’m a Republican I would have inconsistent thinking on this subject and blame all Muslims for terrorism committed by one crazy Muslim or a group of crazy Muslims?

I’m from the city of Houston, which is the fourth largest city in the United States. Because of the low living expenses, high wages, and excellent job opportunities here, my city is an attractive destination for immigrants who relocate to the US from all over the world. My next door neighbor is a Muslim. His name is Khaleed, an immigrant from Lebanon. He works an IT job and lives a normal life and has a normal family. His religion doesn’t make him any different. I’ve known many Muslims here in Houston, some of them were my friends when I was in school. They are all ordinary people.

I already know that Islamic terrorists are outliers and the majority of Muslims don’t support violence, terrorism, or extremism. My personal experiences with Muslim Americans have made me believe that Muslims are normal people like everyone else.

By the way, survey data on Muslim Americans’ political views incline Republican on issues they endorse. Do you think the Republican Party is hostile towards Muslims? That isn’t actually the case.

Do you wear that US Republican as a badge?

I do not give a hoot who you vote for, or where you live.

The normal thing to do would be to check out his church enviroment.

A few years ago here in Sweden a pastor was jailed, there as a murder.
A young unsteady girl was so out of balance she killied the pastor's wife by hitting her on the head with a hammer, while she was in bed.

The investigation revealed shocking goings on in the church.

 

[FireDragon76]

I’ve known many atheists during my life, some of them are people I know personally, others are people on the internet. It seems like practically all of them have a negative view of religion, thinking only the worst of it and seeing it as some sort of reactionary and superstitious force. I’ve known only one atheist who has a positive view of religion. Apparently, he’s smart enough to recognize the good aspects of faith despite his unbelief.

You just need to get used to the fact that not everybody sees religion, particularly Christianity, as a good thing. Centuries of abuse and manipulation can't just be swept under the rug for some of us because the Bible makes a good yarn.

We see this sort of thing often form the right often in association with the LGBT community.

in recent threads we have seen claims that a man entered a woman's locker room with criminal intent and then claimed he was a transsexual. It doesn't matter if anything like this happened or not the incident is now used to justify attacks on all transsexuals. In another instance a story of how the small child of a gay couple called a woman "mama" and this was touted as evidence that all same sex couples are bad parents.

Of course, with friends like that, Christians don't need enemies.

 

[Robban]

Do you wear that US Republican as a badge?

I do not give a hoot who you vote for, or where you live.

The normal thing to do would be to check out his church enviroment.

A few years ago here in Sweden a pastor was jailed, there as a murder.
A young unsteady girl was so out of balance she killied the pastor's wife by hitting her on the head with a hammer, while she was in bed.

The investigation revealed shocking goings on in the church.

A correction to above post, it was not a hammer murder.

Here are the cold facts.

 

[FireDragon76]

A correction to above post, it was not a hammer murder.

Here are the cold facts.

The parish sounds like it's into Laestadianism, which is a Scandinavian fundamentalist offshoot of Lutheran Pietism. And some of those groups are highly "cult-like".

 

[Robban]

The parish sounds like it's into Laestadianism, which is a Scandinavian fundamentalist offshoot of Lutheran Pietism. And some of those groups are highly "cult-like".

Lars Levi Laedstadius was from Swedish lappland and also priest in the State Church
(Luthern).
He was aktive in his region Lappland.

At that time there was much drunkeness,

He was not doing too well until he met a woman who told him of her belief in God.

This changed him and also his preaching which had a positive effect on the Lapps.

And has been known as Laedstadism,
it spread to Finnish and Norwegian Lappland too.
From this enviroment came one woman who went under the name "Lapplisa"

She became well known for her song over Skandinavia and even to USA via emmigration.

There may be some influence still.

But it is so that over time, long or short time.

the purity of a certain preaching becomes contaminated.

For several reasons mainly because of pigheadedness.

 

[Robban]

In case anyone is interessted, a sample of Lapplisa.

A song well known and liked by seamen far from home.

 

[LockeeDeck]

Even though I’m a Christian, I sometimes read atheists blogs because I like to see what nonbelievers are writing and thinking about. It helps me to better understand what people whose beliefs (or rather non-beliefs) that differ from my own see the world.

Several of the atheist sites I visit with some regularity have reported on the recent spree shooter who gunned downed eight Asian massage ladies. They specifically noted about how the killer, Robert Aaron Long, was a Baptist who was involved with his church and very much committed to his faith. The bloggers, who are undoubtedly hostile towards religion, wanted to discredit Christianity by pointing out the religious background of the said spree shooter.

Thinking about this, I decided to post a thread about it. Namely, I want to raise the subject with this question: Is it ethically right to blame an entire group based on one bad person’s immoral actions from that group?

For example, let’s say a person from a certain race commits a heinous, violent crime. Would it be acceptable to blame an entire ethnic group because one person from that ethnic group committed a very terrible crime? Of course not! People would call the idea racist.

If a black American kills a white cop, everyone would say it is racist if a reporter, journalist, or blogger decided to castigate all black Americans over it. And rightfully so. Meanwhile, if a Baptist (or at least someone who claims to be Baptist) kills eight massage ladies in a horrific crime, these atheists bloggers seem to think it’s absolutely okay to imply that all of Christianity is bad based solely on the actions of one awful “Christian.” Do these people not see how unfair their thinking is?

The difference is in belief structure. Being black or any race doesn't have an associated belief structure and as such has no bearing on the actions of an individual in that group.

A religion on the other hand does, but it gets more complicated than that because each religious group has their own beliefs and their own interpretation of those beliefs which gets filtered down to the individual.

In this case the beliefs of the group contributed this the individuals violent actions, although I don't think the church is to blame. He interpreted the beliefs of the church in his own way and it is possible this would have happened if he was in a different church or even a different religion.

Either way you can't discount what belief structure a person comes from when they do something terrible. This is why people are focusing so much on violent rhetoric from right wing forums after what happened on Jan 6. That whole belief structure is basically akin to a religion and has all the same issues associated with one.

 

[Bradskii]

She was overweight and unattractive, but had she been pretty maybe I would have held the door open for her.

Please tell me that was sarcasm...

But no, you can't blame the group for the sins of the individual. Unless...the group holds to beliefs that prompted the sin. So for example, if someone commits mass murder and he's a Catholic or an atheist, you can't blame Catholicism or atheism for it.