Is it right to blame or discredit an entire group over the actions of one bad person from the group?

[OldWiseGuy]

If Christianity were so influential and prominent in American society, they would be teaching young earth creationism in public schools and prosecuting atheists for blasphemy. Neither of those things are happening because the First Amendment of the US Constitution declares that our country is a secular nation and that one religion or denomination cannot be given preferential treatment over another. You’re overstating the amount of influence Christianity has in America and our government.

Christianity has influence, not control. Probably the greatest influence of all influences, and thankfully so.

 

[Whyayeman]

I didn't know that as an atheist I was a member of something!

If the massage parlour killer had been red-headed would that make every red-head a mass murderer or a client of massage parlours?

It seems obvious to me that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. I am an atheist and I do my best to respect other people's viewpoints even when from my perspective they make little sense. But I don't blame all Christians for the obscenity of the Trump era, even though all the support I have seen for him on these forums has been from Christians.

 

[Simon D]

Even though I’m a Christian, I sometimes read atheists blogs because I like to see what nonbelievers are writing and thinking about. It helps me to better understand what people whose beliefs (or rather non-beliefs) that differ from my own see the world.

Several of the atheist sites I visit with some regularity have reported on the recent spree shooter who gunned downed eight Asian massage ladies. They specifically noted about how the killer, Robert Aaron Long, was a Baptist who was involved with his church and very much committed to his faith. The bloggers, who are undoubtedly hostile towards religion, wanted to discredit Christianity by pointing out the religious background of the said spree shooter.

Thinking about this, I decided to post a thread about it. Namely, I want to raise the subject with this question: Is it ethically right to blame an entire group based on one bad person’s immoral actions from that group?

For example, let’s say a person from a certain race commits a heinous, violent crime. Would it be acceptable to blame an entire ethnic group because one person from that ethnic group committed a very terrible crime? Of course not! People would call the idea racist.

If a black American kills a white cop, everyone would say it is racist if a reporter, journalist, or blogger decided to castigate all black Americans over it. And rightfully so. Meanwhile, if a Baptist (or at least someone who claims to be Baptist) kills eight massage ladies in a horrific crime, these atheists bloggers seem to think it’s absolutely okay to imply that all of Christianity is bad based solely on the actions of one awful “Christian.” Do these people not see how unfair their thinking is?

It depends on who they are. If it is a lay church person then no, if it's a Pastor or in some cases the founder of the group then yes it gives much more credence to discrediting the group. This is one of the responsibilities of leadership. Look at Donald Trump discrediting republicans for instance.

And of course Adam, as the head of the human race, his brought a curse onto all the group of humanity, requiring the second Adam (Jesus) to atone.

 

[Whyayeman]

It seems like practically all of them have a negative view of religion, thinking only the worst of it and seeing it as some sort of reactionary and superstitious force.

As a non-believer I do see religions as reactionary and I am negative about them, of course. I have no faith so I look for meaning and explanation elsewhere. This does not mean I have no respect for religious people, just that I think they are mistaken. Some of the people I most admire are or were religious. I am not negative about them at all.

I did not understand the distinction between 'humanist' and 'atheist' just now. I think that humanists tend to be atheistic; not all atheists are humanist.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Atheists are usually more conversant in Christianity than believers. Many have read the bible from cover to cover. I doubt a lack of ignorance prohibits them from seeing its merits. It’s probably the people.

One of our favorite villians, Alan Rickman, dead at 69.

 

[RDKirk]

A racial group and a religion cannot expect the same treatment.

A religion states all members believe the same thing, even if this is not true, this is the stick they are measured with. If one person is a disgrace, we all are a disgrace. The church is an embassy of the Kingdom of God, so each person's effort matters.

Particularly when the religion (or other voluntary group) does not decry the act and invalidate the membership of the offender...which the NT instructs the Church to do.

 

[RDKirk]

If Christianity were so influential and prominent in American society, they would be teaching young earth creationism in public schools and prosecuting atheists for blasphemy. Neither of those things are happening because the First Amendment of the US Constitution declares that our country is a secular nation and that one religion or denomination cannot be given preferential treatment over another. You’re overstating the amount of influence Christianity has in America and our government.

If Christianity had no influence, the debate of including creationism in schools would not be a matter that appeared in state legislatures at all. The fact that such legislative contests occur is evidence of the influence of Christianity in the culture.

Christianity continues to provide a social benefit in US culture. When the nation elects a president who has denied being a Christian, you might have more of a point.

 

[RDKirk]

In my experience this is a myth. Atheists believe they know more, but they really only have a surface gloss and a handful of "gotcha" passages that some other atheist took out of context.

That's not an "out" for doctrinally ignorant Christians, however, who ought to have a more than enough knowledge of their doctrine to counter "a surface gloss and a handful of "gotcha" passages."

 

[RDKirk]

But that wasn’t the source of my response. And as someone who’s been on that side of things and ministered to others who fall outside the demographic you described; I’m aware differences exist.

People judge us by our actions. You don’t need in depth biblical knowledge to know a jerk when you see one.

And here is the big point for Christians:

Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and. glorify your Father who is in heaven. -- Matthew 5

For Christians, our Lord has explicitly identified our actions before the world as a primary method of gaining the acknowledgement of God from the world.

It's utterly irrelevant what atheists do. Atheists are not our role models.

We have explicit instruction for what we are to do.

 

[RDKirk]

I'd be curious to see those surveys to see how they were conducted and what they used to define the groups. Simple self-declaration?

That's the only requirement Christians in the West commonly place on establishing bona fides as a Christian.

For instance, even in these forums...a simple self-declaration of Christianity cannot be disputed.

 

[RDKirk]

In this case, then unless the atheists believe that "gunning down Asian massage ladies" is one of the common elements of being a Baptist, then they can't conclude that all Baptists are just as wrong.

For my part, I don't think that such a thing is a common element among Baptists.

But that might be justified if Baptists come up with an ideological rationale for mitigating the crime.

 

[RDKirk]

The difference is in belief structure. Being black or any race doesn't have an associated belief structure and as such has no bearing on the actions of an individual in that group.

It might if and when it's associated with a particular culture, because cultures do have belief structures that are not necessarily religious.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I didn't know that as an atheist I was a member of something!

If the massage parlour killer had been red-headed would that make every red-head a mass murderer or a client of massage parlours?

It seems obvious to me that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. I am an atheist and I do my best to respect other people's viewpoints even when from my perspective they make little sense. But I don't blame all Christians for the obscenity of the Trump era, even though all the support I have seen for him on these forums has been from Christians.

Jimmy Carter is said to have made this comment to a Christian leader whose support he was courting, "You won't like my campaign, but you will like my presidency."

As a Christian I didn't like many of the things Trump said, but I fully supported his policies.

 

[LockeeDeck]

It might if and when it's associated with a particular culture, because cultures do have belief structures that are not necessarily religious.

Cultures might have belief structures but they are not race based. Also, people are members of multiple cultures at the same time with differing amounts of influence.

 

[Kylie]

But that might be justified if Baptists come up with an ideological rationale for mitigating the crime.

That's a big IF there...

 

[Verv]

It is only for God to judge, and God does not judge anyone based off of their culture or racial category, but only on their own doings.

Knowing that... it is absurd to think of condemning an entire group for their behavior, in the sense that one would create consequences for individuals based on the actions of groups.

Cultures might have belief structures but they are not race based. Also, people are members of multiple cultures at the same time with differing amounts of influence.

While culture is not explicitly racial, it tends to race, and it is such a case that people raised in a culture as a racial minority can often feel more close to a certain subculture, or one day inclined to experience culture more similar to them...

I say this because of the number of people who I know that were raised Americans, but must make efforts to return to Korean culture and being in order to resolve issues about themselves. Plus, black Americans also talk about the uniqueness of their situation and struggle... I cannot imagine the issues facing black Americans, thus, why should we not conclude that race creates situations which transcend culture...

Culture is not explicitly racial, but it is subject to racialization.

 

[Astroqualia]

Sounds like a case of a sleeper cell killer being activated. There are many such events in history that fit the pattern of an mkultra programmed person doing heinous crimes such as this. Another example or two off the top of my head would be a couple of folks who had dirt on Hillary Clinton, and had an assassin shoot them and then kill themselves, as only a human with a trauma-based fragmented mind would have the discipline to just randomly leave a regular, everyday life to do such a thing. They're expendable assassins, trained in the assassin personality to do the job asked of them, and remove themselves from the equation in order for the scheme to remain under wraps. There is a lot of revolving info that pops up in communities over time about this. I actually have writings of the intricacies of how these folks are programmed and why.

 

[LockeeDeck]

Sounds like a case of a sleeper cell killer being activated. There are many such events in history that fit the pattern of an mkultra programmed person doing heinous crimes such as this. Another example or two off the top of my head would be a couple of folks who had dirt on Hillary Clinton, and had an assassin shoot them and then kill themselves, as only a human with a trauma-based fragmented mind would have the discipline to just randomly leave a regular, everyday life to do such a thing. They're expendable assassins, trained in the assassin personality to do the job asked of them, and remove themselves from the equation in order for the scheme to remain under wraps. There is a lot of revolving info that pops up in communities over time about this. I actually have writings of the intricacies of how these folks are programmed and why.

You seem lost, this isn't the conspiracy theory forum. Besides the mkultra and lsd programs were failures and the guy in question had personal motives to carry out his actions based on his beliefs.

 

[Bradskii]

Another example or two off the top of my head would be a couple of folks who had dirt on Hillary Clinton, and had an assassin shoot them and then kill themselves, as only a human with a trauma-based fragmented mind would have the discipline to just randomly leave a regular, everyday life to do such a thing. They're expendable assassins, trained in the assassin personality to do the job asked of them, and remove themselves from the equation in order for the scheme to remain under wraps.

The problem these days is that there are so many crazy conspiracy promotors out there that sarcasm is all but dead. But at least it's alive and well in this forum!

Edit: Wait...that was meant to be sarcasm. Wasn't it..?