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Equal ultimacy error. Calvinism does not teach this (that God choose who goes to Hell).
God does not choose who goes to Hell. Man's natural condition is condemnation for their sin against God. What is amazing is that God saves anyone at all.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Since it is a misrepresentation of what the Bible (and Calvinism) teaches, the question is moot.
Recommended reading: The Potter's Freedom by James R. White.
No, I do not drive on Shabbat. No, I do not buy or sell on Shabbat. No, I do not cook on Shabbat. you are allowed to do good and break Shabbat if to save a life (just as Yeshua did). Anything else?
You said this,Then show me where in John 3:16, - which is speaking of the salvation that is in Jesus Christ, which is for the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. who are SO LOVED by the God of the Bible, - that ANY part speaks of any limitation? No only I, but the Lord of the Bible, HATES false teachings, which "limited atonement", or "particular redemption", or whatever clever name it goes by, teaches.
You, like the others who follow your warped theology, take the name "Calvinism", and YET refuse to accept the words of John Calvin, the very name you revere, on the Death of Jesus Christ. Listen to Calvin's own words:
On Mark 14:24, which is speaking of the Lord's Supper, and when Judas was still very much present (see Luke's account), and did take part in the bread and wine, which represent the "body and blood" of Jesus. Jesus says "And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.". On the word "many", it would be expected that Calvin would say, "the elect", as do "Calvinists". However, he says, "By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one". Do you get it? Can Calvin be any more clear with his language? YET, this is totally ignored by so called "Calvinists", because their own teacher DISAGREES with their own beliefs which are meant to be from him!
On John 3:16, where I have seen some abuse the use of "world", to limit it to the "elect". Calvin again shows the TRUTH on this.
"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."
Here we have the unCalvinistic language on John 3:16, where it is abundantly clear to all who will only listen, that Jesus's death is for, "THE WHOLE WORLD...ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION". Which is, the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. The so called "Calvinistic" term is, "all men without distinction", i.e, "all kinds of people". One again Calvin himself destroys this heresy called "particular redemption", etc
It gets even better, commenting on Paul's words in Colossians 1:14, when he speaks of Jesus, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:", Calvin clearly says, "He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"
Now, lets see how good your exegesis is!
This isn't a reference to the ten commandments your title is about. John 15:10 proves this with the same words comparing them to the The Father's commandments.Is it possible or not to keep the 10 commandments?
If it's not possible to keep the commandments, why do Jesus and also Paul say we are to keep the commandments?
John 14:15
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
You need to explain the difference here.John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
The Scripture says no one can do this. What is Jesus really responding to here? Why did the man leave sorrowfully? Jesus didn't disagree or condemn him.Matthew 5:19
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
No one can by pass Jesus. John 10 proves this. If you can get into heaven by keeping the law, why does Jesus call them thieves?1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
This isn't achieved by keeping the law.The 2 Commandments are a summary of the 10. HOW do you love God and HOW do you love you neighbor. Do you just say that you do? HOW do you SHOW that you do? The first 4 are HOW to love God and the last 6 are HOW to love your neighbor.
Grace is not a license to sin.
No, if you're talking about the ten commandments.Of course no one is justfied by the law, but if we are born again are we not to keep the law to walk in the light and righteousness? When Paul says the knowledge of sin comes though the law, isn't he talking about those who are not yet born again. But as we are born again doesn't the law give us another meaning, that we shall keep the law?
Isn't it all the hundreds of laws the jews had that Paul is talking about, how to eat, what to wear ... Since it's said we are to keep the commandments, I doubt that it's the commandments Paul is referring to in Heb 8.
Again isn't Paul talking about those who believe they can be saved by works without faith? Doesn't faith through the Holy Spirit enable us to keep the commandments?
NoYes that is the way to salvation. But once saved are we not to keep the 10 commandments?
NoKeeping the "Sabbath day", isn't that what we do when we have one day a week that we especially devote to prayer and church?
This isn't a reference to the ten commandments your title is about. John 15:10 proves this with the same words comparing them to the The Father's commandments.You need to explain the difference here.The Scripture says no one can do this. What is Jesus really responding to here? Why did the man leave sorrowfully? Jesus didn't disagree or condemn him. No one can by pass Jesus. John 10 proves this. If you can get into heaven by keeping the law, why does Jesus call them thieves?
Is it possible or not to keep the 10 commandments?
If it's not possible to keep the commandments, why do Jesus and also Paul say we are to keep the commandments?
John 14:15
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Matthew 5:19
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:17
And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Timothy 6
13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The next verse proves Paul is talking about the ten commandments as the law.
He wasn't referring to the Mosaic Law! Jesus gave us two commandments that all fall under, the Law of Love. Keeping them in your heart, making them your way of life, doesn't mean you will not fail. You keep your ring on your finger, you made vows and promises - did you keep them 100%. I think that is what He meant. We are sinners and cannot obey the 10 Commandments without fail, no one ever has except Jesus. He fulfilled the Law for us. So that is a gift to us, He gave us salvation ... keep it.
Just because we are Christians doesn't mean we all of sudden start living pure lives. We practice though. We fall, get up and move forward, holding onto His Love. We keep His Love, His commandments, His grace, His forgiveness, our salvation, His mercy, etc.
You said this,
It gets even better, commenting on Paul's words in Colossians 1:14, when he speaks of Jesus, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:", Calvin clearly says, "He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"
Now, lets see how good your exegesis is!
Only for the believer are the sins of the believer forgiven, expiated.
The unbelieving world still dies in their sins, Colossians 1 is written to the saints, the faith filled brethren only and not to any unbelievers who have no forgiveness of their sins, unless perhaps you
believe in universal salvation?
Colossians 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father [a]and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Their Faith in Christ
3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; 7 as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, 8 who also declared to us your love in the Spirit.
Preeminence of Christ
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Reconciled in Christ
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
"15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." Romans 7:15-20Is Paul here referring to before or after being saved?
I see, you are a universalist, saying the world has had it's sins atoned for!"Expiate"
Also means...
"to pay the penalty of" (Oxford)
"the means by which atonement is made" (Chambers)
"to pay the penalty for, to make amends for" (Longman)
What objection can you find from any of these?
Interestingly, on 1 John 2:2, on the word, "ἱλασμός", the Reformed commentary by Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, have this to say.
"Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2Pe_2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1Jn_4:14 and 1Jn_5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther)"
WILL you guys ever listen?
"15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." Romans 7:15-20
I see, you are a universalist, saying the world has had it's sins atoned for!
However, Christ says this about the world's sins, and in many other places too,
The world does not know who Christ is, and when He tells them plainly, they do not believe what He says.
.
John 8:23-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”
And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning.
The atonement is just for the people of God, even back in the OT, atonement by sacrifices and offerings according to the law was made for the people of Israel, but not for the gentiles. In the NC, this atonement is only for the believer in Christ, they have the propitiation, which is the appeasement of God's wrath, the unbelieving world will experience the wrath of God..
Romans 3, the propitiation is by faith in His blood only, to demonstrate His righteousness for believers in Christ only. As a propitiation, that is appeasement of the wrath of God, by His blood, through our faith! JESUS SAVES US FROM THE WRATH OF GOD TO COME ON THE UNBELIEVING WORLD.
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
I see no confusion at all.Your denomination and what you state is really confusing.
I know the doctrines fairly well but Catholic doctrine is limited, just as all Churches. If there is no clear doctrine on something, Catholics are free to believe whatever they want. (Ex. Was creation 6 actual days)I doubt you know the doctrine of your church.
Never said it wasn't. The Law is knowledge of good and evil. (The Tree of Knowledge in Eden)First of all the law is good.
It's sin that is not good and brings death.
Romans 7:11-13
Nothing in John 8 says that. Verse 31 says if we obey "his" teachings that it will set us free. Jesus is talking to Pharisees, who had the Law of Moses, but they couldn't understand his teachings. The context of verse 31-47 speaks of them beings slaves to sin, just as Paul does in Romans.We had better please God by obeying His laws!
John 8:31 Jesus is saying this.
Yes. But that help is so that we can understand that we don't need a list of does and don'ts. We have God's Spirit to guide us.And the Holy Spirit does not "do it all".
He's here to help us to not do it all.
I understand, do you? I was instantly justified-sanctified through baptism but I didn't understand how God's Holy Spirit works within us. When God revealed that, I was able to find progressive justification as the HS changed me and continues to change me.Please learn the difference between justification and progressive justification, as it is called by your church.
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