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Featured is it peter the rock? or is it jesus?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by lambofgod43985889, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. lambofgod43985889

    lambofgod43985889 Active Member Supporter

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    some people say that jesus was talking about himself about the rock

    matthew 16:18
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It is most often thought that Jesus was referring to Peter as the Rock since his name amounted to our nickname "Rocky."

    Jesus was using a play on words there and making a little joke. It would be like saying "You are Pearl (the girl's name) and you are a very valuable find."
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  3. ajcarey

    ajcarey Active Member

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    How could Jesus' Church be built upon any other rock but Him?

    "For who is God save the Lord? or who is a rock save our God?" (Psalm 18:31)

    "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?" (Matthew 21:42)

    "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 3:11)

    "If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded." (1 Peter 2:3-6)
     
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  4. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter G4074, and upon this rock G4073 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    G4074
    ?e´t???
    Petros
    pet'-ros
    Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

    G4073
    pe´t?a
    petra
    pet'-ra
    Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

    It is clear that Peter was a rock, smaller than the mass of rock that Christ is building his church upon. Peter was part of the larger mass of rock, not the full rock of the church itself.

    1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock G4073 was Christ.


    G4073
    pe´t?a
    petra
    pet'-ra
    Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.
     
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  5. Vicky gould

    Vicky gould Shekinah Supporter

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    Hi Lamb, I thought that the spoke of Peter as a stone not a Rock. There has been only one Rock and He is the only acceptable foundation. We are all living stones being built into God's house. Great question
     
  6. Job3315

    Job3315 Well-Known Member

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    I think the rock Jesus was referring to was the truth Peter just said; that Jesus is the Son of God.
     
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  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Jesus said that it was his church, but that he was going to "build" it--not found it--on Peter.

    Jesus designated Peter for the task, and on Pentecost Sunday Peter preached his miraculous sermon to the people gathered from all around the empire resulting in 3000 of them being converted to the new faith. That was the first big membership breakthrough for the church, so Peter was the one on whom the church may be said to have been "built (up)."
     
  8. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    I will quote @abacabb3 , hope he doesn't mind:
    "the majority of fathers (about 70%) interpreted Matt 16:18 to mean the confession of Christ was the rock. Others thought the Rock was Christ Himself. Still others thought Peter himself was the rock, Cyprian being a notable example. Ironically, being that we know that Cyprian explicitly rejected Papalist ecclesiology in detail, this means that we cannot even take the small minority of fathers who thought Peter as the rock would have then subsequently interpreted that passage as a prooftext for Roman supremacy."
     
  9. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    The rock is that foundational statement made by Peter when asked, "who do you say I am?"
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That would seem likely EXCEPT for Peter's name which Jesus emphasizes in his statement to him about building his (Christ's) church.
     
  11. Vicky gould

    Vicky gould Shekinah Supporter

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    I know this is a little off the subject but it was, drawing a bad memory, who brought Peter to the Lord. Andrew disappears while Peter goes onto be someone, not speaking of all he has done, just his evangelizing. Who among us might be an Andrew or maybe Andrea and the Lord is just waiting for us to bring the next Peter. Andrew may not have seen the worth of him bringing someone to the Lord but I wonder how good he must have felt knowing the Lord had used him to do this work. It only hurts if we don't speak . Thanks for letting me usurp your thread it a great subject.
     
  12. ajcarey

    ajcarey Active Member

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    But Jesus was clearly talking about the chief foundation for His church in Matthew chapter 16 upon which the church would be built- not the man, or a man, who would be most instrumental in building up his church upon that foundation stone.
     
  13. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    So he built his church on Peter's nick name?
     
  14. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The Gospel that Peter confessed is the rock. Peter is the pebble that confessed it and thus got this nickname from Jesus.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Well, "upon this rock" can be a reference to almost anything if taken out of context. It could refer to a person or it could refer to some action or something else.

    It appears very much to be the case that Christ is talking to Peter as his go-to man for building up Christ's new church. I agree that he is saying what he does because Peter makes a confession of faith in the Lord just before the key words appear, but it is Peter who does the building on Pentecost as I described before. If not, what building is Peter doing that all the other Apostles were not also doing?

    Also, we must note that a few lines later in that passage Christ likens Peter to Satan, saying to get behind him because of his faithlessness. So we cannot make Peter's faith but not Peter himself be the rock even if we didn't think that Peter's name figures in this at all.
     
  16. ajcarey

    ajcarey Active Member

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    What are you trying to say here?
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Peter (a name meaning rock) is the one designated by Christ to build his church--which we know he shortly was to do and big time!

    Although some posters have emphasized Peter's faith as though it can be separated from Peter himself, Peter compromises that affirmation of faith in the very same passage of scripture that we are talking about. Yet Peter goes on famously to build the church up, being the one whose sermon led to 3000 conversions in a single event.
     
  18. ajcarey

    ajcarey Active Member

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    Peter was indeed not doing any building that the other Apostles themselves were not also doing. He was the chief speaker in Acts 2 and was especially highly respected among them due to his especially near association with the Lord, but Peter was not even the Bishop at Jerusalem where all 12 Apostles were residing as late as Acts 15 (that was James).
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's quite obviously incorrect to say. Read what happened on Pentecost Sunday.
     
  20. ajcarey

    ajcarey Active Member

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    Okay, so Peter's compromise in that very chapter proves that neither he nor his faith can be the rock that Jesus was speaking of. He went on to have a key role in building the church up, but he was not the chief foundation stone of the church.
     
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