Is it okay to go to a church with a female pastor?

[BlueSky2023]

1 Timothy 2:12-15 NASB
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

What do you believe should be done instead? Should you rely on your own understanding, or follow the word of God? If I were in your position, I would share this verse with that pastor and observe what her response would be.

 

[Postvieww]

Is it okay to go to a church with a female pastor?

A while back I left my old church where I grew up because I didn't feel my relationship with God was growing. I would often show up every Sunday because I was being forced to my family and it made me hate church and God at the time. Also, I felt like I was riding on my parents faith rather than actually believing the bible and reading and studying it on my own. So I decided to take a break from church for a little and go somewhere else. The church in previous attended was a church of Christ that was very traditional. This new church I've been going to seems a little more modern. They use instruments which I don't really see an issue with even though my family does, but they also have a female pastor. She's not a lead pastor but she comes up occasionally and preaches but the lead pastor is a male. And this is where the issue comes in. Ive been doing my my own research and I often find that in books like 2 Timothy it forbids it, but I really enjoy coming here. I've felt my relationship with God growing, I've been praying more, and I have a desire to come to church now. But this has been tugging at me for the last few weeks. Please help.

God uses whom ever He pleases. Many try to pick a couple of scriptures to exclude women from roles in the church but they ignore the larger context and any passages that contradict their hard line position. Scripture is full of women used by God in many ways. Be wary of men who try to keep women under their control. I have heard it argued that one who prophesies is actually preaching in an attempt to remove prophets from the present day church but they have no rational answer for prophetesses in scripture. Women can and do hold any position God calls them into and the doctrines of man cannot overrule whom God chooses for service.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

The original question was "is it ok to go to a church with a female Pastor?"
You seem to be saying, "If a female pastor is good at what she does, it's fine and it's probably her calling. If she isn't good at being a pastor, she should stick to the traditional female roles".

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

That doesn't answer, from Scripture, whether or not women are called to be pastors.

Actually the answer is in 1 Timothy 2:12. I tried to vouch for women, but your behavior has changed my mind. Paul was right. Women should keep quiet.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Actually the answer is in 1 Timothy 2:12. I tried to vouch for women, but your behavior has changed my mind. Paul was right. Women should keep quiet.

Benjamin, if you'll do me the kindness of getting a copy of Kroeger & Kroeger's book, I Suffer Not A Woman, you'll find that your present understanding of this bit of Scripture in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 will fall like the house of cards that it is. Or at the very least, your present interpretation will not come away unscathed.

Thank you for your time.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The reasons why the Catholic Church does not allow women to be ordained are;

1. Christ only chose men as Apostles and they in turn, only chose men to be
their successors.

2. The biggest reason is because at Mass, the priest becomes Christ en persona,
and Christ was a male. The Church can not make Christ a female, they don't have
the authority to do so.

Disagree with these reasons all you want, but St Pope John Paul II already said it's a
theology which can never change.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Well then, that's a backward answer.
A woman has to be ordained before anyone can know if she is any good at the job.

Actually the answer is in 1 Timothy 2:12. I tried to vouch for women, but your behavior has changed my mind.

That's unfortunate.
I've been asking questions of your posts - I thought you might have been able to answer them.

Paul was right. Women should keep quiet.

Which is not what he was saying at all, since he had already stated that women could pray and prophesy.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

A woman has to be ordained before anyone can know if she is any good at the job.

That's a recipe for disaster and not biblical.


1 Timothy 3:10

Anyone who desires an office is suppose to be proved first. In my church the individual was doing the job of deacon, bishop or elder or minister before ever receiving the title, or being ordained.

I've been asking questions of your posts - I thought you might have been able to answer them.

You seem to only be nit-picking and looking to generate a fight. So I don't take this remark as genuine.

 

[Strong in Him]

That's a recipe for disaster and not biblical.

So if it's not Biblical for a woman to be ordained, why did you say that if she was any good at the job she should be ordained??

You seem to only be nit-picking and looking to generate a fight. So I don't take this remark as genuine.

Well it was.

I was asking questions because I wanted you to clarify your post - like when you said that women who followed Jesus would have been assuming typically female roles. You made that comment without any evidence; I was asking why.
On one hand you say that you are sticking up for women - you said "let them be ordained", and that if they were any good at the job, then they were clearly called and should remain ordained.
How can a woman show that she is good at the job, if you say it is unbiblical for her to be ordained in the first place?

Sorry, but I find it hard to follow the arguments in your posts, so I ask questions. If you take that as evidence of hostility, or nit picking; so be it.
It would be nice to have an answer, but if you can't/don't want to provide one, I have other, more important, things to do.

 

[Paidiske]

A woman has to be ordained before anyone can know if she is any good at the job.

Well, yes and no. While you can't take on the fulness of the role before ordination, you can certainly take on parts of it. I did field placements in which I preached, led small groups, led non-Eucharistic services, did pastoral visiting and a whole bunch of other things. The church had plenty of opportunity to look at how I went in those field placements and see whether the indications were of potential, competence, or impending disaster (and indeed, that's the point, and there are plenty of people who don't proceed beyond this stage).

As for the argument that women can't be priests because we can't stand in persona Christi, (responding to @JimR-OCDS), the problem with that is that it makes maleness, rather than humanity, an essential aspect of Christ's incarnation. And yet we know that Christ's humanity transcends maleness, since women are redeemed, and the patristic maxim that "that which is not assumed is not healed" applies. If Christ's humanity excluded femaleness, women could not be redeemed; the other side of that reality is that women can represent Christ in Christ's humanity. His sex is no more essential to that than finding a priest of his exact height, or with his exact colouring, or any other human particularity.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, yes and no. While you can't take on the fulness of the role before ordination, you can certainly take on parts of it. I did field placements in which I preached, led small groups, led non-Eucharistic services, did pastoral visiting and a whole bunch of other things. The church had plenty of opportunity to look at how I went in those field placements and see whether the indications were of potential, competence, or impending disaster (and indeed, that's the point, and there are plenty of people who don't proceed beyond this stage).

As for the argument that women can't be priests because we can't stand in persona Christi, (responding to @JimR-OCDS), the problem with that is that it makes maleness, rather than humanity, an essential aspect of Christ's incarnation. And yet we know that Christ's humanity transcends maleness, since women are redeemed, and the patristic maxim that "that which is not assumed is not healed" applies. If Christ's humanity excluded femaleness, women could not be redeemed; the other side of that reality is that women can represent Christ in Christ's humanity. His sex is no more essential to that than finding a priest of his exact height, or with his exact colouring, or any other human particularity.

Massculinity is part of being a male and part of being a human being. Christ transcending
maleness as you put it, doesn't change the fact that he chose only 12 men to be Apostles and
spread the Gospel message to the world, and it was men who were given the gift of celebrating
the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. Nothing has changed with this regard and the Church has
no authority to change that. Not everyone is called to be an ordained priest, even married men
like myself. However, following the will of God is what we pray for and what we strive to do.


Sorry if God's will is different than yours for the Catholic Church, but that's just the way it is.

 

[I's2C]

Is it okay to go to a church with a female pastor?

A while back I left my old church where I grew up because I didn't feel my relationship with God was growing. I would often show up every Sunday because I was being forced to my family and it made me hate church and God at the time. Also, I felt like I was riding on my parents faith rather than actually believing the bible and reading and studying it on my own. So I decided to take a break from church for a little and go somewhere else. The church in previous attended was a church of Christ that was very traditional. This new church I've been going to seems a little more modern. They use instruments which I don't really see an issue with even though my family does, but they also have a female pastor. She's not a lead pastor but she comes up occasionally and preaches but the lead pastor is a male. And this is where the issue comes in. Ive been doing my my own research and I often find that in books like 2 Timothy it forbids it, but I really enjoy coming here. I've felt my relationship with God growing, I've been praying more, and I have a desire to come to church now. But this has been tugging at me for the last few weeks. Please help.

GOD uses whom ever HE chooses. In days of Debra no man stood up and Debra who by the way was a Prophetess of GOD, She stood up and lead the army of Israel into victory by hand of GOD. GOD uses women throughout to preach and teach. If she teaches the truth of scripture there is nothing wrong with a woman preacher. Phillip had 4 virgin daughters that never knew a man who were also teachers of the gospel traveling with Phillip through Ceasarea in which Judah never conquered but Phillip and his daughters did through the HS.
Priscilla was one of Paul's most admired teachers of Christianity. Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Many women of the Bible stood up where no man did, I could go on but nothing wrong as long and same with a man that they teach scripture.

 

[Paidiske]

Sorry if God's will is different than yours for the Catholic Church, but that's just the way it is.

You are welcome to believe that, but the rest of us are not obliged to. Following the will of God is indeed what we pray for and strive to do.

 

[WolfGate]

Not going to read the entire thread, because I already know the arc. I'll just say this:

There are churches who take a high view of scripture and are theologically conservative that fall on both sides of the female pastor issue. That is a strong indication that this issue isn't as cut and dried as the more myopic people on both sides of the issue claim it to be.

 

[Christson 24]

God does not discriminate,He can use anybody to be a minister,Maria wodwort ette was a powerful woman of God,called by the Almighty,I have seen many female miniter been call by God to be a minister and they have performed well although the Bible refer women as weeker vessel ,so they need a man that will assiste them on .some issue in the church so they need to seek for advice when needed

 

[Strong in Him]

although the Bible refer women as weeker vessel ,so they need a man that will assiste them on .some issue in the church so they need to seek for advice when needed

A woman being a "weaker vessel" does not affect her ability to preach and lead worship. We don't need human strength for that, we need God's strength. And he gives it - which he wouldn't do if we we breaking his command or he did not approve.

Everyone needs to ask for advice, or help, when needed.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You are welcome to believe that, but the rest of us are not obliged to. Following the will of God is indeed what we pray for and strive to do.

No one is asking you or anyone else in here to become Catholic.

However, what I posted is what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[goldenboy]

Sure he says that men were created before women - but dogs were created before men. So?

Paul didn't just throw this in-it was, as pointed out, one of Paul's reasons for not permitting a woman to teach, or usurp...Neither did our sister. Can't help you out in re the dogs.

 

[Andrewn]

they also have a female pastor. She's not a lead pastor but she comes up occasionally and preaches but the lead pastor is a male. And this is where the issue comes in. Ive been doing my my own research and I often find that in books like 2 Timothy it forbids it, but I really enjoy coming here. I've felt my relationship with God growing, I've been praying more, and I have a desire to come to church now.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

1Ti is ofter misunderstood. Enjoy going to your new church and following Christ, who is the true Pastor.

Forget about man-made doctrines about not using instrument and about male pastors.

 

[Strong in Him]

Paul didn't just throw this in-it was, as pointed out, one of Paul's reasons for not permitting a woman to teach, or usurp...

But Paul knew that Deborah had been a judge over the whole nation and that Esther had been a queen and persuaded the king to change his mind and not destroy the Jews. He also knew that Priscilla had taught Apollos, had female co-workers and gave his letter the the Romans to a woman to deliver.
He also taught that women could pray and prophesy.
What do you mean by "usurp" and how do women do this?

Can't help you out in re the dogs.

No, well my point was that if some people are saying that men can preach because they were created before women, then dogs were created before men, so shouldn't they be trained to preach? Answer; no, of course not, that's ludicrous.
So therefore the order of creation doesn't affect your calling and what God can ask you to do.

 

[goldenboy]

But Paul knew that Deborah had been a judge over the whole nation and that Esther had been a queen and persuaded the king to change his mind and not destroy the Jews. He also knew that Priscilla had taught Apollos, had female co-workers and gave his letter the the Romans to a woman to deliver.
He also taught that women could pray and prophesy.
What do you mean by "usurp" and how do women do this?


No, well my point was that if some people are saying that men can preach because they were created before women, then dogs were created before men, so shouldn't they be trained to preach? Answer; no, of course not, that's ludicrous.
So therefore the order of creation doesn't affect your calling and what God can ask you to do.

It's easy to be glib about what Paul knew, and historical context, but, well, Paul said what he said. We, as Christians, believe that the Bible is God's Word, and, as Jesus said "The Scripture cannot be broken."

> "What do you mean by "usurp" and how do women do this?"

Good question. I use it in the general usage sense of the English language. Look, there are some parts of the Bible that the flesh would like to discard or reinterpret, and I, as much as any man would like to ramrod some interpretation upon them, but, I don't. If we start saying that it was a different time, and different place, we may as well do that for murder, adultery, theft, etc...

One amazing influence in my Christian youth was Kathryn Kuhlman. I was edified by her ministry, but, you know what? She wasn't a real teacher, and we could go on and on about Deborah, Priscilla, etc...but, it just doesn't change what Paul said. And, Paul himself knew these people much better than we do.

AAMOF, I attended a Bible College that was administered/taught by one of Aimee Semple MacPherson's associates. He had at least preached under her, and he was quite erudite. He had a doctorate, and was fluent in Greek, Hebrew. He called Aimee the Greatest Woman (I can't remember if he called her the Greatest, or Greatest Woman) Preacher in the World. I was all for women ministering in any office in the church; I was a light to those in darkness, smugly pointing out that the first of Jesus' disciples to tell of his Resurrection were women. but, I couldn't get past this verse. I, myself, do not have a good way to integrate all of the Scriptures that we have to work with on this matter.

"No, well my point was that if some people are saying that men can preach because they were created before women, then dogs were created before men, so shouldn't they be trained to preach? Answer; no, of course not, that's ludicrous.
So therefore the order of creation doesn't affect your calling and what God can ask you to do."

MY whole point is that Paul, and we all know of what his Authority consisted, used it to bolster his argument. Paul. The New Testament Paul. Again, he doesn't just throw this stuff around. Apparently, order of creation DOES matter, to God. Do I like it? I don't care either way. Can I explain it? Oh, goodness no! Not even. But, I must yield to Paul.

It's actually an extremely small price to pay. Going, again to my youth, I was listening to a traveling evangelist who had a tent ministry. Bill Lowery, IIRC, with Christ is the Answer Ministries. This was mid-70s, and a lot of his people were Jesus Freaks, etc...saved hippies. Whenever they went to one of those Tobacco Road kind of towns, he'd tell the brothers to "Cut it off", referring to their hair. So, the question is: "Is it really so essential that a woman minister teach men?" "Can a woman not find a different way to fulfill her ministry than to contradict one Scripture?"
A woman can minister the Gospel without Usurping authority over the man. She can do it without teaching a man. Etc...

Further, I can't find a better place to add this in this post, but, Prophesying is different than teaching, and different than leading an army, as per Deborah.