is it ok not to like the book of Revelation?

[lutherangerman]

I think this book is probably the one oddest writing in the world. I don't mean the beginning, the messages to the churches are all pretty clear. But the rest? I really don't know what to make of it. Think of the thundering voice and then another voice saying don't write down what they said. Prophets weeping because a scroll can't be opened. Horns and locusts and scrolls and seals, angels carrying fire, smoke filled heavens, souls not in Heaven but under God's altar. It's really so odd. I can hardly read that book without freaking out. Honestly it feels like something failed or made up. I never have that feeling about other scriptures in the New Testament. I know it's not really a matter of feelings but I can't make heads or tails of this book. And as far as I know it is almost never used in services of liturgical churches. What do you think of that book?

 

[briareos]

I think it is something we must read prayerfully, carefully and swallow completely with an utmost reverance a and respect of God. We do not have the liberty to choose what we will receive or not from him... there isn't much chance that the book is different from what was written originally because we have the dead sea scrolls.

It is a hard book, but part of our servitude to God is accepting him and serving him because he's the master, not because he acts according to our liking or makes sense to us all the time. He will help you understand and understand him... but the moment you choose to reject something he gives you over to that mind and you no longer have his help in understanding. We cannot negotiate with his word, it has to be swallowed. That is not because the church is equal to God, or because a certain man said it, or because God reigns with an iron fist... it is because he is our God.

I agree that it is not much taught on, most people stay away from it it seems.

 

[briareos]

Remember the 1 chapter of Romans... People did not accept him as God and so God turned them over to an estranged mind that could no longer understand.

When you do not accept something God says, he doesn't fight with you about it, he will eventually simply turn your mind over to that and then you no longer have the ability to see that your wrong. If we choose to disagree with him he'll let you think you think your right to your own peril. We have to fear the Lord, do not disagree. He is long and patient, as long as your willing to follow him.

Accepting his word, believing it and giving yourself to it, even when it does not gratify us or be what we would want to be true... is a part of fearful, reverent, servitude to him. The reason we know that we are not pawns to fake master or to a church leader, is because we know Jesus ourselves.

 

[lutherangerman]

I still dont want to read this book. I'm not scared of prophecy, for example I do like the book of Isaiah. I also like Daniel and Jeremiah. I'm not sure you are right about us "having to accept this book fearfully". Because it can mess us up. I have schizophrenia and I talked with other christian schizos, and many find this book extremely uncomfortable. To read it thoroughly is like an invention to psychosis. For example, for some time I ran around thinking the mark of the beast could be applied to me by demons if I have any evil thoughts. Man was that an angst trip. It lasted for years and I took a long time to come back to sanity.

 

[Dianna_Child of God]

I find it a hard book of the Bible to read...but my favorite verse is from there. It is the one in my sig tag. I have bipolar and other disorders. God will wipe away my tears....imagine how awesome that will be. No more death, no sorrow,no crying, no more pain. It will be such a glorious day. To me it is the best promise God has given us.

 

[parsley]

You are also a rational person, and your brain seems to prefer logical and ordered thinking. Straightforward talk.
The revelation -- any sort of vision or dream or hunch- causes a person to dig.

A book like proverbs gives straightforward advice that we can nod and agree too. Any revelation is like a surprise to open, leaving a lot of gaps to be explored.

If unusual information were presented more literally, we would argue with it, disagree, and toss it. When we research an open-ended topic we are curious about, we stay on our toes and look out for new information as it comes. A vision is a springboard to further study.

I don't think you have to like it, as though God will strike anyone who has an opinion. There will be times in our lives that one book carries more meaning or help to us than others. I was afraid of Isaiah and Jeremiah until I went through experiences where I appreciated the deceptive and hypocritical being held accountable.

What I think you need to do, though, is see John's vision for what it was. Writers, scholars and preachers have tried to own it and excel in it. God still owns it. He handed it over to John, who handed it over to all of Christendom. It is ours to explore and weigh, but seems to be no one's book to take and domesticate.

 

[briareos]

Well by fearfully I am speaking of "fear = reverence" not "fear = horror".

You accept what he said because he is God, he loves you more than life and he died so that no matter what you do he could still save you but he will not negotiate his truth with you. If he said it you have two choices, reject it or accept it and if you reject it, he may not destroy you but he will not cater to that, he will let you stumble and he will be there waiting when you come to yourself and return to him.

If your afraid to read it then that means you haven't read it so you need to read it and you need to pray about it, trust in your father, your Lord and Savior... he has not failed you yet and he will not fail you. Ask him for help, if he is who you believe him to be he will give you peace about this. Faith is a vital part of our christian life.

Jesus told Peter to do something that in human terms was suicide, Peter was like "Ok, I am going to die if your not right" and dying is a lot worse than reading a scary book. If Jesus had mislead Peter he'd have been dead. You have to trust God with your life... so trust God to walk with you through the book of Revelations and help you understand it and give you peace, he will not forsake you.

We simply don't have a choice about believing his word or accepting it, and as servants of God we shouldn't demand a choice. You may never understand all of it, but even in not understanding we have to accept it as true, that's what servants do.

 

[Aibrean]

I don't like it for the simple reason that people draw too many conclusions from what should not be taken literally. It's probably the most mis-interpreted book in the entire Bible.

 

[Pal Handy]

I think this book is probably the one oddest writing in the world. I don't mean the beginning, the messages to the churches are all pretty clear. But the rest? I really don't know what to make of it. Think of the thundering voice and then another voice saying don't write down what they said. Prophets weeping because a scroll can't be opened. Horns and locusts and scrolls and seals, angels carrying fire, smoke filled heavens, souls not in Heaven but under God's altar. It's really so odd. I can hardly read that book without freaking out. Honestly it feels like something failed or made up. I never have that feeling about other scriptures in the New Testament. I know it's not really a matter of feelings but I can't make heads or tails of this book. And as far as I know it is almost never used in services of liturgical churches. What do you think of that book?

Kind of reminds me of some of the cryptic questions we get in Christian Advice.....

 

[hedrick]

It's fine to not like it. It's one of I think 2 books that Calvin never commented on.

However it's kind of a shame. It has gotten abused by people looking for the kind of literal timeline for the end that Mark 24:36 ff says we can't know. If you forget trying to make allegorical identifications between the various events and current politics, and instead look at the overall vision, it's an interesting approach. It, like Daniel, follows a well-known Jewish approach to history. It sees God as in charge of history, and bringing it to an end that he has appointed. But as we get closer to the end, the lines between good and evil get clearer and the battle between then more visible. I really like Rev 21 and 22.

 

[Pal Handy]

It's fine to not like it. It's one of I think 2 books that Calvin never commented on.

Revelations 22
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!”
Let the one who is thirsty come;
and let the one who wishes
take the free gift of the water of life.

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

 

[lutherangerman]

I always thought these last verses were for the copists of the scroll - that we should be diligent in translation and copying. I mean honestly, how can I take away anything from this book by not reading it? Or how can I add to it? Am I here saying I know this or that will happen? Or that this or that will not happen? The only thing I can think isthat this book is for later times when bad things will have happened and that in hindsight this book will confirm us that God was active. And that to that end this book must be preserved like it was given to us originally. Basically, if someone asks us what is written in this book we must give a honest account. But I really don't believe that in order to be saved you must understand and deal with that book all the time, as if it were a salvific text. That would really make christianity rather weird. Our hope is in Jesus who died on a cross for us and who got resurrected three days later.

 

[Pal Handy]

I always thought these last verses were for the copyists of the scroll - that we should be diligent in translation and copying. I mean honestly, how can I take away anything from this book by not reading it? Or how can I add to it? Am I here saying I know this or that will happen? Or that this or that will not happen? The only thing I can think is copyists that this book is for later times when bad things will have happened and that in hindsight this book will confirm us that God was active. And that to that end this book must be preserved like it was given to us originally. Basically, if someone asks us what is written in this book we must give a honest account. But I really don't believe that in order to be saved you must understand and deal with that book all the time, as if it were a salvific text. That would really make christianity rather weird. Our hope is in Jesus who died on a cross for us and who got resurrected three days later.

What if a teacher claims that the book of Revelations is nonsense and that we
do not need to read it or even try to understand it?

Perhaps that person is not actually rewriting the book of revelations
but I would not want to be in their shoes.

The book is of such importance that God allowed John to pronounce a blessing on
all who read it (see the prolog in Revelations 1) and a curse on those that would
ADD to or TAKE AWAY from this Revelation of Jesus Christ to the churches.

Is telling people not to read Revelations taking away from the blessing
that God has promised to those who would read the Revelation
of Jesus Christ to the churches?

If those telling people to stay away do not understand Revelations.
they could ask God for the understanding they need instead of telling others to stay away from it.

Just because you read and do not understand does not give anyone
the right to discount the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the churches.

The same goes for spiritual gifts give by Christ through the Holy Spirit.

Just because people do not have the gifts or understand them, that is
no reason to discount the gifts or dissuade others from seeking after
God's gifts or wisdom to understand things we do not now grasp.

Matthew 7
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

 

[znr]

What if a teacher claims that the book of Revelations is nonsense and that we
do not need to read it or even try to understand it?

Perhaps that person is not actually rewriting the book of revelations
but I would not want to be in their shoes.

The book is of such importance that God allowed John to pronounce a blessing on
all who read it (see the prolog in Revelations 1) and a curse on those that would
ADD to or TAKE AWAY from this Revelation of Jesus Christ to the churches.

Is telling people not to read Revelations taking away from the blessing
that God has promised to those who would read the Revelation
of Jesus Christ to the churches?

If those telling people to stay away do not understand Revelations.
they could ask God for the understanding they need instead of telling others to stay away from it.

Just because you read and do not understand does not give anyone
the right to discount the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the churches.

The same goes for spiritual gifts give by Christ through the Holy Spirit.

Just because people do not have the gifts or understand them, that is
no reason to discount the gifts or dissuade others from seeking after
God's gifts or wisdom to understand things we do not now grasp.

Matthew 7
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

Pal, he has schizophrenia. Do you not understand why his brain has a hard time with this book? He does not have control over how his brain may or may not handle this book. I don't have a problem with him having a dislike for it, how much more would God the giver of grace and peace understand his dilema. Grace be unto lutherangerman and all of us where we are at right this minute.

 

[Pal Handy]

Pal, he has schizophrenia. Do you not understand why his brain has a hard time with this book? He does not have control over how his brain may or may not handle this book. I don't have a problem with him having a dislike for it, how much more would God the giver of grace and peace understand his dilema. Grace be unto lutherangerman and all of us where we are at right this minute.

Sorry....
I do not know the man and he hasn't told me about his problems.

He doesn't have to read revelations but I would never tell him
that revelations is not important or some book we can discount or
dismiss as not important or from God.

Could anything in the Bible that is supernatural including God Himself
be a problem for someone who might have hallucinations or hear voices
so we cannot talk about God, the Bible or the supernatural?

I am not trying to do him any harm but truth is important and
so it is better to make statements that are true than to make
untrue statements to someone who struggles with reality.

 

[znr]

Sorry....
I do not know the man and he hasn't told me about his problems.

He doesn't have to read revelations but I would never tell him
that revelations is not important or some book we can discount or
dismiss as not important or from God.

Could anything in the Bible that is supernatural including God Himself
be a problem for someone who might have hallucinations or hear voices
so we cannot talk about God, the Bible or the supernatural?

I am not trying to do him any harm but truth is important and
so it better to make statements that are true than to make
untrue statements to someone who struggles with reality.

Third post down: http://www.christianforums.com/t7613249/#post59182031

If it were me and I had schizophrenia (or in my case was having a moment) I would avoid anything that triggers it too. The point you made about not being able to distingtuish bad teaching is valid but if it were me I wouldn't put myself in a position to listen to any teaching on a subject until I felt God was asking me to listen, thereby avoiding the dillema. Maybe to someone (me and you by the grace of God) who don't struggle with schizophrenia can better handle life's reality (ha, whatever that really means) but some people's brains behave differently and they hear voices, so a book like revelations would possibly be very frightening. Having read enough of luther's posts I have confidence that the Lord will keep him through all his trials and the holy spirit will guide him.

 

[Ash Crimson]

Sure. The East Orthodox church never uses the book, so why should you?

 

[Aibrean]

Sure. The East Orthodox church never uses the book, so why should you?

Don't speak on behalf of the EO unless you are one. They don't use it in the liturgy, but that doesn't mean they don't use it at all. I don't even recall the last time any part of it was read in my own church.

The Orthodox Church does not persuade people not to read Revelation. It does caution people to read it with a solid background knowledge of the rest of Scripture, especially the New Testament, and with a basic understanding of the times which produced Revelation. At the same time, the Orthodox Church does not accept the notion that everyone can properly interpret the Bible as he or she wants.

 

[NewUser777]

The Book of Revelation ... what's not to like? You have Jesus looking really powerful here, which He's always been. You have all sorts of strange creatures ... very interesting. You have angels being angels ... you get to see how powerful they are.

You have satan and the world finally being judged, after all the time that has gone by. The world has had enough time to turn, but they have not. The saints cry out for justice, and who can blame them. Then finally, judgment is released and it is awesome.

This world loves movies about disasters and cataclysms. Oooo ... very exciting. Well, they are going to get some REAL excitement. The people who have been blaspheming God will finally be shut up. No president can save them, no lawyer can save them. People will finally get what they deserve. No more [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-footing around.

Those who love God will go to heaven to live with God forever. We will get to be what we really are.

I am a realist. I believe the sooner this happens the better. I can't wait for it to happen. Revelation is one of my favorite books of the Bible! Come, Lord Jesus.

 

[Johnnz]

Revelation is a letter to some churches about to face Roman persecution. It was written to encourage them and for Christians to understand the ultimate truimph of Christ over Empire and the Satanic realms behind all powers outside of Christ.

Get a commentary such as "th eone by Gordonn Fee and you will get to what it does mean.

John
NZ