Is it moral?

[Inkfingers]

No - samsara is about cycles of periods of discontentment and suffering, and other periods of contentment and pleasure. It is not endless, as nibbana - a goal which anyone can strive for - is freedom from samsara.

The traditional Christian hell and lake of fire offers no moments of contentment or pleasure, and no freedom or possibility of escape.

The concepts are not the same at all.

I did not say they are the same. I said they are similar. Which they are (both being endless death and suffering).

Oh, and how many people have ever reached Nirvana? And actually, striving for it is attachment.

 

[GeorgeJ]

If there were a way of knowing for sure, I would be surprised if the findings showed that "most Christians" actually do take that kind of literal view of hell.

I agree that my response was a broad brush; however I can agree with you.

When I was a Christian, the concept of an eternal hell for everyone but the "saved" really stuck in my craw. I think many Christians are externally vocal about a belief in eternal hell, but internally don't really believe that.....but if they vocalized that opinion, they'd be chased outta the sanctuary.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Is it moral to torture someone for eternity because of finite crimes?

If someone chooses to live an existence apart from God, why should they be surprised when He gives them what they want?

I'll be honest Albion. I find this sort of response a little frightening. It suggests that you would do whatever you believed God required of you without considering its morality against any standard which you or the broader community may hold.

There was a time 70-some years ago where the broader community in Germany decided it was right to toss Jews into furnaces. There are places in this world right now where it is acceptable to kill one's daughter because she shames the family. Are these actions moral or immoral?

 

[GeorgeJ]

There was a time 70-some years ago where the broader community in Germany decided it was right to toss Jews into furnaces.

....and the belief of many is that those Jews are burning in hell right now because the weren't "saved".

So, Germany burns them up in a furnace, and many Christians condemn them to hell. Doesn't sound like much of a difference to me.

 

[Phil 1:21]

....and the belief of many is that those Jews are burning in hell right now because the weren't "saved".

So, Germany burns them up in a furnace, and many Christians condemn them to hell. Doesn't sound like much of a difference to me.

Which doesn't answer the question.

 

[GeorgeJ]

Which doesn't answer the question.

Oh, but it did...........your beliefs blind you as to why.

 

[ananda]

I did not say they are the same. I said they are similar. Which they are (both being endless death and suffering).

They're not similar at all, since samsara is not endless.

Oh, and how many people have ever reached Nirvana? And actually, striving for it is attachment.

Yes it is, do you see an issue with that?

 

[Inkfingers]

They're not similar at all, since samsara is not endless.

It's endless in effect - that's the point of the wheel being eternal.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Oh, but it did...........your beliefs blind you as to why.

 

[ananda]

It's endless in effect - that's the point of the wheel being eternal.

It is endless until one removes himself from the cycle - then it's not endless.

 

[Inkfingers]

It is endless until one removes himself from the cycle - then it's not endless.

Remind us of how many have achieved that in practice...

When we are talking potentially billions of years, the comparison stands.

 

[ananda]

Remind us of how many have achieved that in practice...

I don't know how many, but I suspect an innumerable number has reached nibbana - the cessation of suffering.

When we are talking potentially billions of years, the comparison stands.

Billions <> eternity.

Eternity = billions x infinity.

It is not comparable.

 

[Inkfingers]

I don't know how many, but I suspect an innumerable number has reached nibbana - the cessation of suffering.


Billions <> eternity.

Eternity = billions x infinity.

It is not comparable.

Trust me, after the first million years you won't care either way

 

[ananda]

Trust me, after the first million years you won't care either way

I see no reason to trust ... I don't believe in blind faith.

Even if I did, trust still cannot turn a billion into a billion x infinity.

 

[NBB]

Thing is, it's not smart to judge God... if you have a tiny clue he may exist run for your life to Jesus.
Even christians have problems with the notion of hell. But that changes something?

Acts 17:27
27 “God wanted people to look for him, and perhaps in searching all around for him, they would find him. But he is not far from any of us.

Also christianity has some good benefits in THIS life, spiritual ones mostly.

 

[dmmesdale]

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but I'm not a "secular fundie".

You did take the Bible verse literally meaning Christianity supports self-mutilation. That is fundie. We get one of two things from God. Justice or mercy so in theory what do you want from God? Justice or mercy?

So....you don't take the "gouge out your eye" and "cut off your hand" parts literally, but you do take the mention of hell in those verses literally?

Yeah it is a location of sorts and there is more than one verse which supports the existence of some type of hell. Don't see how it can be interpreted in any other way. All the comforts we take for granted all gone.

No surprise there, most Christians do.

Well there is a whole slew of verses that support the view, so? Are we supposed to ignore all of them?

The "difficult" to explain verses are "hyperbole", but the verses about burning in hell forever

Burn forever? Where did I say that?

if you're not a believer in Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God and Messiah are definitely fact! And if you don't believe it.......you're gonna burn in hell forever......

I don't know about the last part and don't know why you are fretting so much unless scared for some reason. I do not fret over the Red Queen in Wonderland because it is fictional. So it sounds like you have some sort of problem. Most convicted convicts think their sentence is excessive. They effectively lock people up for life every day in a hell called prison. Just watch survivers Guide To Prison on Netflix for an example of hell. People are told in advance so it seems to me the smart thing to do is go to the cross of Christ and live for Him, not self. Unless you wish to hang on your own cross. Why lick the Earth? It is your life and your choice.

 

[Rajni]

Thing is, it's not smart to judge God...

It's important to remember that there's a difference between judging God
and judging concepts thereof.

Claims of judging God are usually raised in the hopes of silencing the tough
questions that occasionally emerge which aren't challenging God, but rather
challenging God-concepts.

 

[GeorgeJ]

Claims of judging God are usually raised in the hopes of silencing the tough
questions that occasionally emerge which aren't challenging God, but rather
challenging God-concepts.

Exactly. DON'T JUDGE GOD is often used as a threat, when all folks are doing is disagreeing with a person's perception of what God is/does/will do.

 

[NBB]

Exactly. DON'T JUDGE GOD is often used as a threat, when all folks are doing is disagreeing with a person's perception of what God is/does/will do.

No. is my opinion that judging God really is not smart or wise. You are more intelligent or powerful than Him? And he is Holy without any defect.

 

[Rajni]

No. is my opinion that judging God really is not smart or wise. You are more intelligent or powerful than Him? And he is Holy without any defect.

That's just it, though. No one is judging God.
They're judging concepts about God.
Big difference.