Is it immoral to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass on the Sabbath?

[DamianWarS]

There is not even one verse "keep the Sabbath" to Christians in the New Testament. Neither in Christian creeds etc.

I'm not sure why the hesitation, but if you have an idea you wish to share, please show you support through scripture.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

We are all smart enough to substitute cutting grass with any number of things. The point is not the act, so let's not scrutinize grass-cutting, the point is a motivation to help someone in need. Christ tells us it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but some wish to debate that this goodness has limits on the Sabbath. I for one would gladly lend a helping hand, be it cutting grass, lifting boxes, or some other act aimed at being helpful and showing love especially when someone has a clear need. The opposite focus of avoiding help seems counter-gospel. Some would call help immoral if done on the Sabbath which I find a bit bizarre. So please, if you call this immoral make sure you let people know so we can understand your perspective.

The question I would ask is why you're doing these things on Sabbath when they could just as well be done on another day of the week.

 

[DamianWarS]

The question I would ask is why you're doing these things on Sabbath when they could just as well be done on another day of the week.

The point is helping someone in need. Need is indescrimite of the day of the week, as the op says, don't get stuck on grass-cutting and be creative. For example a single mother moves in next door, she pulls up in a U-Haul with 2 young children and begins unloading the U-Haul herself with no other assistance. Does it matter what day of the week it is? shouldn't we just help? What happens if she knocked on the your door and asked for help noticing perhaps you seemed available and able bodied? Do you tell her it's immoral to do that kind of work on the Sabbath but you are happy to help tomorrow? What message do you think that would communicate to the single mother? While you're thinking about it your Muslim neighbour is already helping her.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

The point is helping someone in need. Need is indescrimite of the day of the week, as the op says, don't get stuck on grass-cutting and be creative. For example a single mother moves in next door, she pulls up in a U-Haul with 2 young children and begins unloading the U-Haul herself with no other assistance. Does it matter what day of the week it is? shouldn't we just help? What happens if she knocked on the your door and asked for help noticing perhaps you seemed available and able bodied? Do you tell her it's immoral to do that kind of work on the Sabbath but you are happy to help tomorrow? What message do you think that would communicate to the single mother? While you're thinking about it your Muslim neighbour is already helping her.

If someone specifically asks me to do something on Sabbath, I do it willingly without complaining. I see the fault lying with the person doing the asking, but I do not volunteer my services needlessly on that day.

 

[DamianWarS]

If someone specifically asks me to do something on Sabbath, I do it willingly without complaining. I see the fault lying with the person doing the asking, but I do not volunteer my services needlessly on that day.

So you're happy to enable someone you consider doing something immoral but excuse yourself of any wrong doing despite doing the exact same thing? What measure do you base this on? Scripture tells us doing good is lawful on the Sabbath but I missed the part that said the person in need is at fault.

I'm sure you have an imagination. What else would you do or not do should the need present itself? You would help carry boxes (but only if you're asked) would you help build a shed if you're asked?

Have you ever wondered how many opportunities have you missed to show love by being helpful because no one asked you?

 

[trophy33]

I'm not sure why the hesitation, but if you have an idea you wish to share, please show you support through scripture.

This requirement does not make much sense, again.

Keeping the Sabbath is never given to Christians, either in the NT or in Christian creeds. What do you want me to "quote"? What hesitation? "Not being there" cannot be quoted. Quote from the Bible that driving a car is allowed on Christmas day.

 

[Fervent]

The OP seems to miss a major issue with the Sabbath, in that it is not so much about what we do but what we require of others. Remembering the Sabbath goes beyond personal decisions, but whether we take actions that require others to sacrifice their time unnecessarily. There is no end of good deeds needing to be done, but none of us are capable of addressing every need. So remembering the Sabbath reminds us that we are creatures, and only the Creator can meet every need.

 

[DamianWarS]

The OP seems to miss a major issue with the Sabbath, in that it is not so much about what we do but what we require of others. Remembering the Sabbath goes beyond personal decisions, but whether we take actions that require others to sacrifice their time unnecessarily. There is no end of good deeds needing to be done, but none of us are capable of addressing every need. So remembering the Sabbath reminds us that we are creatures, and only the Creator can meet every need.

The Sabbath is ultimately about spiritual rest that we obtain through Christ. The physical aspects of the law are there to point to Christ not in competition with him. And indeed, we cannot take this rest ourself and it needs to be given to us, just as it was with the animals under the care of the law. Oxen have no authority to take rest and in order to rest they need to be given rest from one with authority. This is a major spiritual metaphor (in case you missed it)

Rest may play a role in reminding us about what Sabbath is (the completed work of Christ), it also may be used to disengage in unhealthy ways and be void of spiritual meaning. What is clear is that spiritual rest is available to us even while physical rest is not available.

We may need physical rest because of our physical limits, and routine rest is healthy, there is no doubt about that, but Christ does teach us we may break our rest to do good (Mat 12). How you manage that is up to you but as Jesus says "doing good is lawful on the Sabbath" so why deny these words.

although we have limits goodness does not and goodness itself should never be considered immoral. Doing good until physical exhaustion is hyperbole. The needs are great, and our limits to meet those needs is no different than any other day. My suggestion is not to only focus on doing good during the sabbath, but rather to have a continual focus of doing good every day of the week. If you can manage this insurpasible need on a Tuesday than surely you can manage it on a Saturday. Remember, God rested, not because he was tired, but because the work was finished. The 7th in fact carries that meaning of completion and there is no rest when there is still work to be done

 

[Gary K]

The Sabbath is ultimately about spiritual rest that we obtain through Christ. The physical aspects of the law are there to point to Christ not in competition with him. And indeed, we cannot take this rest ourself and it needs to be given to us, just as it was with the animals under the care of the law. Oxen have no authority to take rest and in order to rest they need to be given rest from one with authority. This is a major spiritual metaphor (in case you missed it)

Rest may play a role in reminding us about what Sabbath is (the completed work of Christ), it also may be used to disengage in unhealthy ways and be void of spiritual meaning. What is clear is that spiritual rest is available to us even while physical rest is not available.

We may need physical rest because of our physical limits, and routine rest is healthy, there is no doubt about that, but Christ does teach us we may break our rest to do good (Mat 12). How you manage that is up to you but as Jesus says "doing good is lawful on the Sabbath" so why deny these words.

although we have limits goodness does not and goodness itself should never be considered immoral. Doing good until physical exhaustion is hyperbole. The needs are great, and our limits to meet those needs is no different than any other day. My suggestion is not to only focus on doing good during the sabbath, but rather to have a continual focus of doing good every day of the week. If you can manage this insurpasible need on a Tuesday than surely you can manage it on a Saturday. Remember, God rested, not because he was tired, but because the work was finished. The 7th in fact carries that meaning of completion and there is no rest when there is still work to be done.

I can agree with you as far as you go, but the Sabbath means more than that. It is a memorial of creation and we're told it means much more to us personally.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

I know you'll object to this having any meaning to us because we aren't Jews but that is not how I read the Bible, It is all applicable to us just like the following is.

Jer_13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

 

[DamianWarS]

I can agree with you as far as you go, but the Sabbath means more than that. It is a memorial of creation and we're told it means much more to us personally.



I know you'll object to this having any meaning to us because we aren't Jews but that is not how I read the Bible, It is all applicable to us just like the following is.

The Sabbath is depths more. It is a memorial of creation so it's meaning is rooted in creation and it is creation that defines the Sabbath, not the 4th commanment which is absent in creation.

So what does creation tell us? Sabbath is the culmination of the days of creation and the antithesis to the chaos before God spoke light. This is in plain sight from a comparison of the 7th day and before day 1 but also far more explicit as it is a direct parallel within the chiastic patterns of the account. Before day 1 explicitly parallels day 7 and this is intentional and teaches us what day 7 accomplishes.

Day 7 is in fact the answer to the darkness and chaos of before day 1. It starts when light is separated from darkness which begins a work that when finished ushers in the 7th. Day 7 is the completed work of God in creation and it is the completed work of Christ in the new creation and the ultimate meaning of both Sabbath and creation.

Every word is still important and still has meaning for our lives today as it points to Christ. The 4th commandment points to Christ and the 7th day points to Christ. Christ is the emphasis and the message of the Sabbath and Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. Where rest is important for healthy living the Sabbath is not actually about physical rest, physical rest is the mechanism the Sabbath uses to testify Christ and his spiritual rest he offers. It's true meaning is and always was the spiritual rest or the answer to the darkness.

We may continue keeping the 4th and this certianly can be a part of a healthy physical and spiritual life but not at the cost of the gospel. Christ says we may break our rest to do good and this is a part of a greater picture of love such as what we see in the law of love Christ unpacks as well as parables like the good Samaritan.

The good Samaritan is a unique account showing how those who should have did good actually avoided it and the unexpected was the one who was the neighbour. I can't help but compare this to religious Sabbath practice today, as the spiritually lost may be in need, perhaps not in physical distress but certianly in spiritual distress. Yet on the Sabbath, the day meant to glorify Christ and point to his spiritual rest, we limit the love we show because we deem it as work and a sentiment of "any other day but today". So cross the peverberial street to avoid doing good if it is deemed as breaking our rest without just purpose. What's the purpose? To show Christ's love... Is there any greater purpose?

This is putting Sabbath practice above the gospel but we should be quick to break our rest to show love because the latter is more important as the latter may be the access into giving others spiritual rest.

Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. I don't see this as something we may opt out of. There is the cry of bleating sheep trapped in pits surrounding us but we are too busy resting to notice. Don't break rest to violate the Sabbath which is the wrong focus, break rest to glorify God. We already have the spiritual rest, so showing it to others should now be our priority and we may break physical rest to do this and this should be called good.

 

[Gary K]

The Sabbath is depths more. It is a memorial of creation so it's meaning is rooted in creation and it is creation that defines the Sabbath, not the 4th commanment which is absent in creation.

So what does creation tell us? Sabbath is the culmination of the days of creation and the antithesis to the chaos before God spoke light. This is in plain sight from a comparison of the 7th day and before day 1 but also far more explicit as it is a direct parallel within the chiastic patterns of the account. Before day 1 explicitly parallels day 7 and this is intentional and teaches us what day 7 accomplishes.

Day 7 is in fact the answer to the darkness and chaos of before day 1. It starts when light is separated from darkness which begins a work that when finished ushers in the 7th. Day 7 is the completed work of God in creation and it is the completed work of Christ in the new creation and the ultimate meaning of both Sabbath and creation.

Every word is still important and still has meaning for our lives today as it points to Christ. The 4th commandment points to Christ and the 7th day points to Christ. Christ is the emphasis and the message of the Sabbath and Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. Where rest is important for healthy living the Sabbath is not actually about physical rest, physical rest is the mechanism the Sabbath uses to testify Christ and his spiritual rest he offers. It's true meaning is and always was the spiritual rest or the answer to the darkness.

We may continue keeping the 4th and this certianly can be a part of a healthy physical and spiritual life but not at the cost of the gospel. Christ says we may break our rest to do good and this is a part of a greater picture of love such as what we see in the law of love Christ unpacks as well as parables like the good Samaritan.

The good Samaritan is a unique account showing how those who should have did good actually avoided it and the unexpected was the one who was the neighbour. I can't help but compare this to religious Sabbath practice today, as the spiritually lost may be in need, perhaps not in physical distress but certianly in spiritual distress. Yet on the Sabbath, the day meant to glorify Christ and point to his spiritual rest, we limit the love we show because we deem it as work and a sentiment of "any other day but today". So cross the peverberial street to avoid doing good if it is deemed as breaking our rest.

This is putting Sabbath practice above the gospel but we should be quick to break our rest to show love because the latter is more important as the latter may be the access into giving others spiritual rest.

Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. I don't see this as something we may opt out of. There is the cry of bleating sheep trapped in pits surrounding us but we are too busy resting to notice. Don't break rest to violate the Sabbath which is the wrong focus, break rest to glorify God. But We have the spiritual rest, so showing it to others should now be our priority and we may break physical rest to do this.

The Sabbath is the sign of sanctification. No other day of the week was ever blessed like the Sabbath is. Search scripture to you heart's content and see if you can find any other day upon which God gave that blessing

 

[DamianWarS]

The Sabbath is the sign of sanctification. No other day of the week was ever blessed like the Sabbath is. Search scripture to you heart's content and see if you can find any other day upon which God gave that blessing

that day is the completed work of God within creation and it points to the completed work of Christ within the new creation. Don't get fixated on the day, its meaning is Christ and it is Christ who sanctifies and makes us holy.

Gen 2:2-3
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

now read this again and apply it as the new creation upon your own life. powerful stuff that's full of meaning well beyond a mere day.

 

[Gary K]

that day is the completed work of God within creation and it points to the completed work of Christ within the new creation. Don't get fixated on the day, its meaning is Christ and it is Christ who sanctifies and makes us holy.

Gen 2:2-3
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

now read this again and apply it as the new creation upon your own life. powerful stuff that's full of meaning well beyond a mere day.

Jesus sure was fixated on the day. I'll stick with His example, You do what you want and I think you'll run into trouble on judgment day.

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus sure was fixated on the day. I'll stick with His example, You do what you want and I think you'll run into trouble on judgment day.

Indeed, I never want to be caught saying

"‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’"

On the Sabbath or any other day

 

[das grosse schwein]

Not everything concerning Jewish law is in scripture. Much of it is found in Jewish history and literature.

A Living Library of Torah

The Mishnah and the Talmud are interesting reading. It's really a very educational site overall regarding Jewish legal, ceremonial, etc. history.

The post Temple Jews, the rabbis, and such added hundreds of laws that had to be kept. These new laws were therefore not part of the Hebrew Scriptures. One of the rabbis counted all the Laws in the Torah and he came up with 613 laws. Some of the laws were repeated and overlapped so in reality there wasn't exactly 613 laws in the Torah.

 

[BobRyan]

DAYS OF THE WEEK

CLICK ON THE IMAGE TO PLAY A VERY NICE GAME ABOUT THE DAYS OF THE WEEK! WATCH THIS VIDEO...AND SING AWAY!!

childrenlearningenglish.blogspot.com

Or, if you wish the European/ISO standard version:

Days of the week poster

Descargar Recurso [ Days of the Week ] Bonita infografía acerca de los días de la semana en Inglés (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday Saturday y Sunday)i deal para que los niños los aprendan y los memoricen. Si quieres descargar esta y otras más en formato PDF, sigue el link de arriba...

www.proferecursos.com

And then there is "context" where we know that the seventh day of the week -- is what many of us call Saturday. That was its meaning in all of the NT and Christ affirmed it as the day for the OT saints in the case of that term. So that puts it all the way back to Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" as God tells Israel in that chapter. so then for 40 years , exactly on what God called the 7th day.. no manna fell.

 

[BobRyan]

The post Temple Jews, the rabbis, and such added hundreds of laws that had to be kept. These new laws were therefore not part of the Hebrew Scriptures. One of the rabbis counted all the Laws in the Torah and he came up with 613 laws. Some of the laws were repeated and overlapped so in reality there wasn't exactly 613 laws in the Torah.

And they have counted the commands in the NT - 1050 of them

 

[Gary K]

The post Temple Jews, the rabbis, and such added hundreds of laws that had to be kept. These new laws were therefore not part of the Hebrew Scriptures. One of the rabbis counted all the Laws in the Torah and he came up with 613 laws. Some of the laws were repeated and overlapped so in reality there wasn't exactly 613 laws in the Torah.

Have you ever read the Talmud? There are two of them. The Jerusalem, or Palastinian, Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. There are hundreds of laws concerning how to keep the Sabbath in the Babylonian Talmud alone.

 

[trophy33]

And then there is "context" where we know that the seventh day of the week -- is what many of us call Saturday. That was its meaning in all of the NT and Christ affirmed it as the day for the OT saints in the case of that term. So that puts it all the way back to Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" as God tells Israel in that chapter. so then for 40 years , exactly on what God called the 7th day.. no manna fell.

I have no idea what you want to say. You reacted out of the blue to an old post.

 

[Gary K]

I have no idea what you want to say. You reacted out of the blue to an old post.

So because it was an old post you see no reason not to be rude?