Is it Ever Okay to Kill

[Max S Cherry]

The commandment correctly interpreted says "you shall not murder." A soldier or police officer who takes a life in the line of duty is not murdering. Neither is a person protecting himself or his family.

Thank you for responding and joining the discussion.

Do you think that Christ's teachings set what is or should be taken as a Christian's guidebook? What I mean is, aside from any rule commandment, Christ's life the example Christians should follow?

I think it is. I have failed to find anything in His example that allows for killing. Everything about Him seems to indicate that the only truly important thing in this earthly life is saving souls. From this position, it would seem that it would be acceptable to kill one to save the lives of more than one in order to give them extra time to be saved. At this point though, I draw a distinction between what I do and what my actions allow to be done.

To me, it seems to be a situation in which I cannot kill.

 

[ebia]

Sorry my young Brother you are mistaken. Look again and you will find verses that instruct men to carry swords (Lk. 22:36 for example). Why would Jesus instruct men to carry swords? I'm sure He didn't mean for them to shave with them.

Cause he wasn't instructing them to carry swords. He was speaking figuratively, which they misunderstood. Hence "enough".

 

[ebia]

Ok, hotshot, if watching your wife or daughter raped or beaten to death and you theoretically could stop it but don't is your conviction, by all means live (or die with) your conviction, but don't try to put some lame pseudo-guilt trip on the rest of us that don't agree with that and don't want harm to come to us or our loved ones. ENOUGH SAID!!

You really don't like being challenged by Jesus's teaching, do you?

 

[Hawisher]

My position is this: If I kill someone who's trying to kill me or someone else, I'm killing someone who almost certainly isn't saved, and that's very, very, very bad. If I die, well, I think I am saved. I'll be alright. If someone is killing another person, then I don't know if that other person is saved or not, so it can be acceptable to kill in that situation. It's still the worst possible alternative, but it is a viable alternative to watching someone else die.

 

[Max S Cherry]

We don't need to kill people, and not always hurt them, but we can use the mighty weapon of prayer/the name of Jesus which is the name above all names. I gave an example, of a woman I know.

Thank you for joining in.

I know of no weapon mightier than prayer. I believe it to be the only weapon a Christian truly must have.

 

[apache1]

You really don't like being challenged by Jesus's teaching, do you?

No, I have no problem with Jesus's teachings, but I sure have a problem with the way you interpret them.

 

[Max S Cherry]

My position is this: If I kill someone who's trying to kill me or someone else, I'm killing someone who almost certainly isn't saved, and that's very, very, very bad. If I die, well, I think I am saved. I'll be alright. If someone is killing another person, then I don't know if that other person is saved or not, so it can be acceptable to kill in that situation. It's still the worst possible alternative, but it is a viable alternative to watching someone else die.

I understand your position very well, and it seems like a balanced way of looking at it. If I did not separate my actions from the actions that are possible because of my actions, I would probably be of one mind with you. To me, though, the difference between the two actions (the ones I take and the ones that happen because of my actions) is the important issue. I do not believe that I am called to control the actions of others, but I believe that I am called to always control my actions.

 

[QueSi]

I could never kill because it is a commandment and my soul could not handle that burden. I do not understand how anyone else can feel that killing is justified. I don't even kill spiders or flies. No killing at all.

 

[QR1]

I could never kill because it is a commandment and my soul could not handle that burden. I do not understand how anyone else can feel that killing is justified. I don't even kill spiders or flies. No killing at all.

But it isn't a commandment. Not to murder is the commandment. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. It is a group/subgroup thing:

There are several different kinds of killing, but it isn't all against the 6th commandment, just the illegal killing is.

 

[QueSi]

But it isn't a commandment. Not to murder is the commandment. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. It is a group/subgroup thing:

There are several different kinds of killing, but it isn't all against the 6th commandment, just the illegal killing is.

If someone intentionally intends and causes someone to die, they killed...murdered.

 

[seeking Christ]

You're thinking that murder and killing are synonymous. In English, they may be. In the language the relevant Scripture was written in, they are not.

 

[QueSi]

You're thinking that murder and killing are synonymous. In English, they may be. In the language the relevant Scripture was written in, they are not.

I'm not referring to just the commandment but by the teachings of Jesus who never claimed that killing or even hurting another human is justified.

 

[ziggy29]

I'm not referring to just the commandment but by the teachings of Jesus who never claimed that killing or even hurting another human is justified.

I can understand this point of view, but I'm not sure I can fully agree with it. As Christians we seek forgiveness for our sins, both those of *commission* (what we have done) and *omission* (what we have left undone).

So that said, if I had the means the ability to kill someone who was beginning to open fire in a crowded public place and put a quick stop to it, do I refrain from doing so, thinking that Jesus would not kill here, and risk being "guilty" of a sin of omission.... or do I do so, believing that the sanctity of life would mean that saving (say) 20 innocent lives places a higher value on human life than letting the 20 be mowed down by one?

I don't know that it's clear-cut. I for one would err on the side of protecting the innocent from predation if I had the means and the opportunity to put a stop to it.

 

[QueSi]

I can understand this point of view, but I'm not sure I can fully agree with it. As Christians we seek forgiveness for our sins, both those of *commission* (what we have done) and *omission* (what we have left undone).

So that said, if I had the means the ability to kill someone who was beginning to open fire in a crowded public place and put a quick stop to it, do I refrain from doing so, thinking that Jesus would not kill here, and risk being "guilty" of a sin of omission.... or do I do so, believing that the sanctity of life would mean that saving (say) 20 innocent lives places a higher value on human life than letting the 20 be mowed down by one?

I don't know that it's clear-cut. I for one would err on the side of protecting the innocent from predation if I had the means and the opportunity to put a stop to it.

I'm black and white in my religious beliefs, no grey areas so in your what if, I would try to stop the man by approaching him and talking to him. To kill this man in order to prevent him from killing others is not the correct thing to do, what if his gun jammed or backfired on him the moment after you shot and killed him? I do not believe Jesus would kill someone to prevent them from killing.

What if that man, while in prison came up with the cure for cancer, you killed someone that could have saved many more than you saved.

 

[seeking Christ]

I do not believe Jesus would kill someone to prevent them from killing.

Surely you have to realize that you can't reason with a criminal? Approaching him to "talk things over," would result in you being his first victim.

 

[ziggy29]

Surely you have to realize that you can't reason with a criminal? Approaching him to "talk things over," would result in you being his first victim.

Well, there was the recent example of a teacher in California convincing a would-be mass murderer with a gun to stop shooting and surrender. But that was the exception that proves the rule, methinks.

 

[Hawisher]

Surely you have to realize that you can't reason with a criminal? Approaching him to "talk things over," would result in you being his first victim.

That's just not true. Criminals aren't subhuman scumbags, they're people who, by and large, are in a really awful situation and were raised horribly. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their actions, but it doesn't lend any support at all to the idea that criminals are horrible, horrible people who can't be reasoned with.

 

[seeking Christ]

The situation under discussion was clear: a person intent on mowing down an innocent crowd, with gunfire. You're going to try reasoning with him?

 

[QueSi]

Through God all things are possible, if you believe.

 

[ziggy29]

Through God all things are possible, if you believe.

It's also possible that those who are hiding from a gunman on a rampage are believing that God will bring them someone who will put an end to the perp's killing spree before anyone else gets hurt, and praying that He will.

It works both ways.