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As I and many others have shared with you your understanding and consistently misrepresenting OSAS after so, so many kind and very patient brothers and sisters have corrected you is completely false.Perseverance of the Saints and or Once Saved Always Saved leads people into unrepentant sin with the thinking they are saved on some level. They may even think they are being humble by the fact that they know they will sin again soon
Salvation is a free gift, but like all free gifts in life, those gifts come with works of responsibility in order to keep or maintain that gift. Rick can receive a car as a free gift, but if he runs red lights, hits pedestrians, and always drives smash drunk, he is not going to keep his free gift for too long. He could wrap that gift around telephone pole or have it taken away from him by his misconduct.
In fact, this example illustrates the difference between working at a job to earn something vs. having a free gift and doing works of ressponsibility. Romans 4 talks about Works ALONE Salvationism. It is talking about salvation purely from a works alone perspective (without God's grace). Trading dollars for hours without any gift involved.
I am starting to understand what you are saying now all along.
We receive salvation freely by God's grace, but it can be taken away or lost? How many slip-ups are too much for God to give up on a person would you say?
The way he sees it is that God didn’t give us the best gift, but a gift that needs us to constantly buy and insert the batteries into the gift to keep it going.God's Grace is the free gift. We receive that free gift by Faith, or in application, faithing or pisteuo . Pisteuo is a" personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT. Your understanding eliminates pisteuo from the NT all together.
So in your understanding, we receive the Spirit of Christ by obedience. We need Christs obedience, not our own.
There are no paradoxical truths.
And you eliminate the most important word in the scriptures .
I'll be addressing this after Christmas. I encourage you to follow the thread .
The Bible doesn’t teach that. That God CAN forgive us.The Bible teaches that God can forgive us but we have to be genuine with God and we have to believe His Word that talks about how we can overcome grievous sin in this life. It takes time for believers to mature and overcome sin in some cases. If a person is not in agreement with God’s plan of Sanctification for their life and they make up their own rules on living holy and they justify sin in their life in some way, then they will not be forgiven because they are not willing to follow His instructions of good ways to purify themselves.
I am starting to understand what you are saying now all along.
We receive salvation freely by God's grace, but it can be taken away or lost? How many slip-ups are too much for God to give up on a person would you say?
Your stance is still not Biblical.Many today think you can sin a little bit and still be saved while you commit a little bit of sin as long as you are striving to live holy. Yet, the problem remains is that most in the Belief Alone camp hold to belief that they can never overcome grievous sin in this life.
Have you chosen to totally forget or leave out repentance?Most churches today teach that you can sin and still be saved on some level. They say they are sinners saved by grace as if to imply they are still sinning and they will always sin. But Jesus says narrow is the way that leads to life and few be there that finds it.
Jesus warned us a lot about sin and how it can destroy our souls in the afterlife. I find it hard to believe that He would radically change His belief on this stance or position after the Apostle Paul came on to the scene.
The end of the Bible ends with:
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14).
Jesus Himself says that He goes after the one lost sheep ( notice the word sheep, which is one of His Own) and leaves the 99 sheep to get the one lost.However, Eternal Security proponents generally teach that King David was saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. This is teaching a license for immorality. This is teaching that one can continue to break God's laws and be in favor with God.
Hi there,
I'm not sure what translation you're are looking at – only the ABPE and various KJVs use the idea of "commandments" in translating this passage.
The greek phrase used there is "Μακάριοι (blessed) οἱ (those) πλύνοντες (washing) τὰς (the) στολὰς (robes).
Here's how the ESV and all other translations render that passage:
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates."
This phrase "washing their robes" appears one other time in Revelation, in Chapter 7 verse 14:
"I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
From the context of the book, Revelation 22:14 is about personal trust in the atoning blood of Jesus to "wash your robes", not following commands or rules.
You said:To your main point however, there are definitely commands/rules in the Bible. However, it is not primarily or even secondarily a book of rules, just like it is not a book of moral heroes, (i.e. examples for us to follow). Treating the Bible like a rule book leds mainly to legalism and works-righteousness (see the Pharisees). However, I think you actually touched on a better way to think of the Bible.
You said:As you wrote in one of your comments above, the Bible is a history of God's relationship with humanity and His persistent, rescuing, covenant-keeping love. It's a record of Yahweh's personal, self-disclosure to humanity finally completed with the incarnation of the Son, His death, resurrection and kingdom. God's "rules" are descriptions of His character and of the conditions necessary to be in relationship with Him. As others have stated, God's rule cannot be followed by the spiritually dead, those who have not been born of the Spirit (John 3), they serve to show our need for grace and someone to keep the law perfectly on our behalf.
To put it another way: the person who has not been made alive through the spirit cannot keep the laws and they become a burden and bring death; but for the person who is a "new creation" the "commands" of Christ are descriptions of His perfection that we are growing into. This is why the New Testament writers focus on the new life and its promises/benefits because of Jesus then describe how the new life "works". (Ephesians 1:1-14, Titus 3:3-7, Romans 6, 2 Peter 1:3-11).
You said:Maybe you are reacting to people who like to dismiss certain realities of the new life in Christ (e.g. sexual ethics) and turn freedom into license?
So…
Yes, lots of rules in the Bible.
No the Bible is not a rulebook and should not be viewed or presented as such.
Yes to it giving us a "rule" (i.e. straight line) to demarcate what we should expect in living the new, Jesus-life (Ephesians 4:20-24) as well as reminders of what "lawlessness" looks like.
No to using the "rulebook" metaphor since without the relationship with the Son is primary (1 John 5:11-12)
You said:Yes, lots of commandments that have been completed and fulfilled in Christ
But, the two great "commands" are really about a quality of relational love, when you look at them, not "rules" in the sense of "do" and "don't".
You said:When agape love is the defining characteristic of your life, you are walking in perfect relational step with Yahweh (1 John 4:8) and therefore there is no law (Galatians 5:15-26).
You said:It seems that on every level, the Bible is leading us to a Galatians 5:16 /26 reality so that we experience the fruit of vv22-23. With that understanding, the Bible (inspired and empowered by the Spirit of God) acts like a coach, a counselor, a teacher, etc. I would use those metaphors over "rulebook" for all the reasons above.
It's interesting to me that you quote Hebrews yet deny Hebrews. It's clearly written that we can turn away from God by a continuous walk in sin. Hebrews says we do so AFTER receiving salvation. John says if we hate our brother we are not saved.The above makes about as much sense as a bowl of alphabet soup.
They are not believers Jason. And Jesus Told them to depart from Him because he NEVER knew them.
22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
'on that day' is judgement day. All unbelievers are going to call Him Lord on that day. Because in their previous days they NEVER did the will of the Father.
John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
They worked evil/lawlessness in their'good' deeds for Him.
Heb 11:6~~New American Standard Bible
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
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