Is it better to raise children without religion?

[Larniavc]

Cut to the chase. Give us 3-5 examples of confirmed atheists who willing gave up their productive lives for a stranger, you know, like eg., Maximillian Kolbe.

Every atheist soldier who was ever killed on active service.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The religious right is more likely to discourage militarism if raised in Western countries because the values countries like the USA fight for are not aligned to theirs. I would discourage anyone on the religious right from joining any western military because dying for Washington doesn't advance your interests.

If anything Fantine, it's progressives such as yourself who are more likely to encourage militarism in order to secure the current progressive political order. To democratize the middle East, to fight Russia to the last Ukranian. Aside from the Neo cons (who are more liberal than genuinely rightist), most of us on the religious right despise the wars the Western powers have been engaged in over the last 50 years.

Raising Christian children as progressives is to raise them as future secularists and non Christians. Because they are adopting the morality and worldview of liberal modernity and not the faith once for all delivered to the Saints. I want to raise any children I have in the values of the faith, not in the values of my enemies.

 

[Larniavc]

If anything Fantine, it's progressives such as yourself who are more likely to encourage militarism in order to secure the current progressive political order.

Exactly. Jan 6th in the USA proves it! Darn those darn progressives.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Exactly. Jan 6th in the USA proves it! Darn those darn progressives.

Jan 6 is more of a revolt against the political order than genuine militarism. It's not as if the left in America is above rioting either for causes they support. But that's not militarism. Who is currently supporting Ukraine in fighting to the last Ukranian? It's the left and neo cons who are ideologically committed to keeping the conflict ongoing. The right is skeptical of supporting Ukraine and is more likely to have a realist geo political perspective on the conflict than the left is, whose perspective is ideological rather than pragmatic.

Why would anyone on the religious right support the militarism of the USA or any Western political power?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Jan 6 is more of a revolt against the political order than genuine militarism.

AKA, insurrection against the established order. (Not militarism, but not good.)

It's not as if the left in America is above rioting either for causes they support. But that's not militarism. Who is currently supporting Ukraine in fighting to the last Ukranian? It's the left and neo cons who are ideologically committed to keeping the conflict ongoing. The right is skeptical of supporting Ukraine and is more likely to have a realist geo political perspective on the conflict than the left is, whose perspective is ideological rather than pragmatic.

I'm more supporting Ukraine to fight to the last Russian. Team M864.

 

[partinobodycular]

I want to raise any children I have in the values of the faith, not in the values of my enemies.

Well at least you're honest enough to describe them as you really consider them to be. It's sad though, to know that the majority of the people on the planet are your enemy, and that your children may be forced to grow up believing it. And yet people wonder why the world is the way it is, especially with all those loving Christians out there spreading the message of 'love thy neighbor'. Curious... isn't it?

 

[Bradskii]

Every atheist soldier who was ever killed on active service.

And if anyone would like to contact any atheists who have or who are serving in the US military, here's a contact page: Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

And in passing, here's one guy who did give his life. Corporal Pat Tillman. His citation for the Siver Star as follows. Pat Tillman - Wikipedia

'The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress July 9, 1918 (amended by an act of July 25, 1963), takes pride in presenting the Silver Star (Posthumously) to Corporal Patrick D. Tillman, United States Army, for gallantry in action while serving with the 2d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, during action in Afghanistan on 22 April 2004, against an armed enemy while serving as a Rifle Team Leader in support of Operation ENDURING FREEDOM. Caught between the crossfire of an enemy near ambush, Corporal Tillman put himself in the line of devastating enemy fire as he maneuvered his fire team to a covered position from which they could effectively employ their weapons on known enemy positions. His audacious leadership and courageous example under fire inspired his men to fight at great risk to their own personal safety, resulting in the enemy's withdrawal, his platoon's safe passage from the ambush kill zone, and his mortal wound. Corporal Tillman's personal courage, tactical expertise, and professional competence directly contributed to his platoon's overall success and survival. In making the ultimate sacrifice for his team and platoon, Corporal Patrick D. Tillman reflected great credit upon himself, the Joint Task Force, and the United States Army.'

Tragically, his death was almost certainly caused by friendly fire.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Well at least you're honest enough to describe them as you really consider them to be. It's sad though, to know that the majority of the people on the planet are your enemy, and that your children may be forced to grow up believing it. And yet people wonder why the world is the way it is, especially with all those loving Christians out there spreading the message of 'love thy neighbor'. Curious... isn't it?

Loving one's enemy is not the same as having no enemies. Yes, the world as a whole is the enemy of Christianity. Our interests are not aligned and therefore we are enemies.

 

[Bradskii]

Loving one's enemy is not the same as having no enemies. Yes, the world as a whole is the enemy of Christianity. Our interests are not aligned and therefore we are enemies.

So other Christians, whose views are not aligned with yours, are also your enemy.

 

[partinobodycular]

Loving one's enemy is not the same as having no enemies.

I would teach you what that verse means, but sadly, I don't think that it's a lesson that you're ready to learn. Suffice it to say that I may be the enemy of many, including yourself, there's no avoiding that, but none of them are enemies of mine. Perhaps the day will come when you'll have no enemies either. But that I'm afraid is in nobody's hands but your own.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

So other Christians, whose views are not aligned with yours, are also your enemy.

Yeah, though there is always a level of severity to these things. Do you think all Christians are aligned or like each other or something? Some one like Fantine for instance wants to redefine Christianity in purely progressive and modern stances on things. I want to keep the faith once for all delivered to the Apostles.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I would teach you what that verse means, but sadly, I don't think that it's a lesson that you're ready to learn. Suffice it to say that I may be the enemy of many, including yourself, there's no avoiding that, but none of them are enemies of mine. Perhaps the day will come when you'll have no enemies either. But that I'm afraid is in nobody's hands but your own.

Except you don't know what the verse to love your enemy means. If we have no enemies how to do we love someone who is genuinely opposed to us and our interests? It's not hard because there are no enemies. What's hard is to actually love someone who is set against you

Do you think Christ had no enemies? Or that Christians have not recognized those who are against them?

You are living in a fantasy world if you can't acknowledge that there are friends and there are enemies.

 

[Bradskii]

Yeah, though there is always a level of severity to these things.

I'm not sure that that is a good thing.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I'm not sure that that is a good thing.

It's human nature. The friend/enemy distinction is inevitable and unavoidable.

 

[Bradskii]

It's human nature. The friend/enemy distinction is inevitable and unavoidable.

I know of some people with whom I would rather not prop a bar. But even those I wouldn't class as an enemy. An enemy is out to harm me and mine. He or she is not someone who simply has a different opinion.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I know of some people with whom I would rather not prop a bar. But even those I wouldn't class as an enemy. An enemy is out to harm me and mine. He or she is not someone who simply has a different opinion.

The enemy is one who opposes your interests. It's not about having a different opinion. Though obviously a different opinion will lead to different conclusions and outcomes.

 

[o_mlly]

Rejecting a lot of the teachings of various religions.

Please post in sentences, ie., subject, verb, predicate,

Your comment was 'one needs to develop real Christians as acquaintances.'

The comment remains an excellent idea.

That's most definitely not supported by the comments we find in this forum. And being a specifically Christian forum one would expect to find examples of what Christians think. Did you check out that thread?

Exactly, who is "we"? You did not include the name of the thread. Have you not gleaned any Christian thinking after almost 5 years and over 14,000 posts?

And in passing, here's one guy who did give his life. Corporal Pat Tillman.

Did you know Pat Tillman? Since the courageous man was reportedly accidentally killed by friendly fire, I don't think his death circumstances equate to the intentional self-sacrifice of Maximillian Kolbe. I will only pray that at the time of his death, Tillman was still seeking the truth about God's existence.

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The diversity of religious and non-religious beliefs, I think, requires the collective to recognize that its role in educating children in conformance with their parents' desires is now an impossible task. Government should abandon its largely failed effort to direct a valueless curriculum in education. Let parents decide on the proper curricula, stop taxing them to support a failed system, or let the parents choose to take the money to the private schools of their choice. Problem solved!

 

[partinobodycular]

Have you not gleaned any Christian thinking after almost 5 years and over 14,000 posts?

Oh my gosh, I can't believe that you really want to go there, because what I've gleaned about 'Christian thinking' from my 30+ years of posting on Christian forums isn't very flattering to its namesake.

 

[Bradskii]

Have you not gleaned any Christian thinking after almost 5 years and over 14,000 posts?

I can only concur with what @partinobodycular said above. And reiterate Ghandi's comment about liking your Christ. But not your Christians. Far too often I'll spend some time online here and come away depressed and disheartened, and often angry, about what the anonymity of a forum allows people to say.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I can only concur with what @partinobodycular said above. And reiterate Ghandi's comment about liking your Christ. But not your Christians. Far too often I'll spend some time online here and come away depressed and disheartened, and often angry, about what the anonymity of a forum allows people to say.

But you don't like Christ. You like this liberal image of him as a pacifist who did nothing controversial but not as one who radically called people to God or eqauted himself with the divine, even to the point of offense and the use of force. To change every aspect of their lives to live in conformity with what God expects. Not with what people like yourself want.

Luckily Christians don't care about the approval of non Christians. Maybe some like the OP do though.