Is it a Sin to Follow the Law?

[TheGentileSkeptic]

Hi, I'm curious as to what the Christian position is when it comes to Jewish Law.

I know most Christians don't want to follow it, but if you did follow it, would it be a sin?

 

[Theadorus]

It's sin for you if you are trying to earn your righteousness/salvation by following the law.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's sin for you to try to earn your righteousness/salvation by follow the law.

Notice right away you did not answer the question of the op.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hi, I'm curious as to what the Christian position is when it comes to Jewish Law.

I know most Christians don't want to follow it, but if you did follow it, would it be a sin?

For a Muslim, everything is sin. Same with all other 'religions' everywhere, all nations without Christ. ,

since whatever is not by Faith in Jesus ,yes, even for a Christian, is sin.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I know most Christians don't want to follow it, but if you did follow it, would it be a sin?

"Jewish law" ?
Do you mean the law in Israel, if anyone lives there ?
Doesn't everyone have to follow/obey the law, or get whatever punishment the law requires when they are caught ?

Why wouldn't anyone, including Christians, follow the law in Israel ('Jewish' law) in order not to be arrested, imprisoned, fined, etc etc etc ?

 

[Justaman0000]

No its not sin. Matthew 5:17-20

 

[Theadorus]

Are we talking about the actual jewish law, or are we talking about the law God gave to Moses. I'm understanding it as the law of Moses.

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

Notice right away you did not answer the question of the op.

Thank you! But I also want to see the scriptural reference that says such a thing. Or is this merely his own belief and not based on scripture?

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

For a Muslim, everything is sin. Same with all other 'religions' everywhere, all nations without Christ. ,

since whatever is not by Faith in Jesus ,yes, even for a Christian, is sin.

I see. But what if someone has faith in Christ, let's say a king, and he wants to use Biblical law in order to judge his people, would he be sinning for killing gays, witches, and other people that we tend to live alongside with in the modern world?

 

[Theadorus]

Gal 3:12-14 it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Romans 14:23, Everything that is not of faith is sin (that includes fear, doubt, unbelief, ect).

So if you try to live by the law to earn your righteousness, you are sinning.

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

"Jewish law" ?
Do you mean the law in Israel, if anyone lives there ?
Doesn't everyone have to follow/obey the law, or get whatever punishment the law requires when they are caught ?

Why wouldn't anyone, including Christians, follow the law in Israel ('Jewish' law) in order not to be arrested, imprisoned, fined, etc etc etc ?

I don't consider the modern Israel to be "Jewish" in the Biblical sense.

Sorry.

I am referring to God's commandments to His people - to wear the beard, abstain from shellfish, and things like that. Along with the punishments associated with breaking those laws.

Is it a sin to follow these?

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

No its not sin. Matthew 5:17-20

Thank you so much for your honest reply backed up with an actual scripture.

Yes, I noticed that but I also noticed an incongruity between what Jesus says and what Christians preach.

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

Gal 3:12-14 it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Romans 14:23, Everything that is not of faith is sin (that includes fear, doubt, unbelief, ect).

So if you try to live by the law to earn your righteousness, you are sinning.

This passage is referring to the Law of sacrifice, right? This is the Law that Jesus (according to Paul) did away with by becoming the perfect sacrifice on the cross.

I understand this, but what about the Law that God gave to the Children of Israel? The one that resembles what the Puritans and Catholics have used prior to the secularization of Christianity? Is it a sin, let's say, if a Christian land like Spain to make the laws that God directed to His people applicable to all Spaniards? Like witches being executed, a woman must marry her rapist if the rapist pays the fine, and so on?

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

Are we talking about the actual jewish law, or are we talking about the law God gave to Moses. I'm understanding it as the law of Moses.

Yes you're correct. The Law God gave to Moses - in particular the Laws that the believers must live by, not the Laws regarding sacrifice or the priesthood which are different, obviously.

 

[Theadorus]

Jesus told us in matt 22:37-40, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c]">[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d]">[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

And Paul summed this all up perfectly.

Romans 13:8-10, Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Thank you! But I also want to see the scriptural reference that says such a thing. Or is this merely his own belief and not based on scripture?

< shrugs > I don't know what his own belief is.
Based on Scripture , what he posted may be entirely truthful, but doesn't answer your question in the op.

I see. But what if someone has faith in Christ, let's say a king, and he wants to use Biblical law in order to judge his people, would he be sinning for killing gays, witches, and other people that we tend to live alongside with in the modern world?

On earth, before Y'SHUA HAMASHIACH Returns, I don't know for sure -
I know that YHWH will kill all the gays, witches and idolators and everyone in all the nations when He executes His Vengeance Quickly, soon.
Whether or not A King, or Anyone Else, with or without faith would be sinning doing as you say is a paradox of sorts - since there is no Kings or Government Leaders that I have heard about or know of who fit your description.
Trying not to overthink this - whenever a King, in line with the law in His Country, obeys the Law concerning such things, it seems to be "legal" without question, but whether or not it is a sin in YHWH'S eyes, is up to YHWH (and perhaps is clear in His Word, but I don't know right now) .

I don't consider the modern Israel to be "Jewish" in the Biblical sense.
Sorry.
I am referring to God's commandments to His people - to wear the beard, abstain from shellfish, and things like that. Along with the punishments associated with breaking those laws.
Is it a sin to follow these?

What does YHWH say in His Word ? Does He call breaking a commandment sin ?(OR/ just noticed) Does YHWH call obeying His commandments a sin !?
(even though this looks like a rhetorical question,
as if it is not meant to be answered, it is not a rhetorical question, but very
likely will have to be expanded upon or clarified ..... )

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

Jesus told us in matt 22:37-40, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c]">[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d]">[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

And Paul summed this all up perfectly.

Romans 13:8-10, Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor.

Yeah, philosophically that's terrific. But Paul is only doing that - speaking from a philosophical standpoint. Theoretically, if you don't murder, steal or covet, then you're essentially following the Law. But what if you do steal or do murder? Is it a sin to punish the sinner according to the Law of Moses?

Paul actually seems to be of the view that punishing sinners by using the Law of Moses is good. Consider his words in 1 Timothy 1:8 where he endorses the use of the Law for sinners such as homosexuals and adulterers and man-stealers.

So, is it a sin for a people to follow the Law of God the way, say, the Catholic church did or the way the Puritans did - i.e., by executing many sinners and keeping slaves?

 

[TheGentileSkeptic]

< shrugs > I don't know what his own belief is.
Based on Scripture , what he posted may be entirely truthful, but doesn't answer your question in the op.


On earth, before Y'SHUA HAMASHIACH Returns, I don't know for sure -
I know that YHWH will kill all the gays, witches and idolators and everyone in all the nations when He executes His Vengeance Quickly, soon.
Whether or not A King, or Anyone Else, with or without faith would be sinning doing as you say is a paradox of sorts - since there is no Kings or Government Leaders that I have heard about or know of who fit your description.
Trying not to overthink this - whenever a King, in line with the law in His Country, obeys the Law concerning such things, it seems to be "legal" without question, but whether or not it is a sin in YHWH'S eyes, is up to YHWH (and perhaps is clear in His Word, but I don't know right now) .



What does YHWH say in His Word ? Does He call breaking a commandment sin ?(OR/ just noticed) Does YHWH call obeying His commandments a sin !?
(even though this looks like a rhetorical question,
as if it is not meant to be answered, it is not a rhetorical question, but very
likely will have to be expanded upon or clarified ..... )

It appears that biblically it's a sin to disobey the commandments. But I think modern Christians hold a different view. They see themselves as exempt not only from the laws of sacrifice, but also from the legal commandments. So I'm trying to see if this is a universal view, if this is a view that includes calling it a "sin" to execute gays and witches and idolators, etc., and if they had solid justification for this other than trying to extend their exemption from the laws of sacrifice to the legal dogmas sent down by their lord.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God

footnote:A lot of ? people ? in the past who 'said' they were following God were not following God at all. So if they were not following God(nor the law of God) at all, and they executed sinners or kept slaves, they were sinning whether they did or not.... If on the other hand they were those who did follow God, and the law of God, they might have been sinning, and might not have been sinning, when someone was executed; perhaps when they kept slaves also (or the way they treated them) , although keeping slaves righteously as written in TORAH is not Biblically a sin.

 

[Theadorus]

Paul is in favor of the law if it's used correct. This is the same man who said that the Law was not of faith (Galatians 3:12), the Law killed and condemned (Corinthians 3:7), the Law strengthened sin (1 Corinthians 15:56), and the Law made sin come alive in us (Romans 7:11). Here, Paul was saying that there is a good use of the Law.

Paul was never against the Law of God; he was just against it as a means of obtaining right relationship with God (Romans 3:31). This was not its purpose (Romans 3:19). The Law is good if it is used to condemn people and bring them to a place where there is no deception about self-salvation. If the Law is used in that way, then it is good.

The problem comes when people who have already come to the Lord for salvation try to continue to improve upon that relationship by their works, or by keeping of the Law. This is not right. The Law isn’t for those who are righteous through Jesus (1 Timothy 1:9).

That is to help explain 1 Tim 1:8

Is it a sin to punish the sinner according to the Law of Moses?

My personal belief would be that it would be sin to punish people accord to the law of Moses today (Those punishments were harsh and extreme, but they served their purpose of teaching people that sin was wrong). The old covenant came with the rules and regulation, but we are now under a new covenant and so I believe we have been freed from those types of punished/curses. Yes, there are still consequences to sin, and that's why God established the worldly authorities in order to bring about justice and what not. And yes, it was wrong what the Catholics did during those times. I hope that helped answer your question.