Is it a Sin to Follow the Law?

Theadorus

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It appears that biblically it's a sin to disobey the commandments. But I think modern Christians hold a different view. They see themselves as exempt not only from the laws of sacrifice, but also from the legal commandments. So I'm trying to see if this is a universal view, if this is a view that includes calling it a "sin" to execute gays and witches and idolators, etc., and if they had solid justification for this other than trying to extend their exemption from the laws of sacrifice to the legal dogmas sent down by their lord.

Are you referring to Grace? Yes, sin is sin. And Christians should not sin because sin is wrong. Where I think the misunderstanding comes from is that people think that because we are no longer under the law, but under grace, that must mean we can now sin. Which isn't true and paul defended that point several times in the Bible (I believe it was Romans 6 and in the book of Galations). What we are free from is earning our salvation/righteousness via the law of moses. If you try to do that, then yes, it's a sin because we are to now believe on Christ.
 
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Theadorus

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Things like sacrifices, and observing the sabbath were only types and shadows of things that came to pass in the New covenant. N.T believers honor the sabbath now by "resting/trusting" in the completed work of Christ. God wanted them to rest 1 day in order to teach them that they could earn more working 6 days a week, rather than the 7 days that the rest of the world worked. God was teaching the Israelite to trust in him to be their provider. So we honor it by trusting in God to be our provider for everything.

Hebrews 10,
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”a]">[a]

8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”b]">[b]

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”c]">[c]

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
 
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Traveling teacher

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Hi, I'm curious as to what the Christian position is when it comes to Jewish Law.

I know most Christians don't want to follow it, but if you did follow it, would it be a sin?
To qnswer your question......
The God of abraham Isaac and Jacob
Gave us 2 covenants......
1 through Moses....the Law of Moses
2 new covenant through His son Jesus Messiah

GOd intituted the Law of Moses because of the rebellion of Israel and had to handle their rebellion with a firm hand
Galations 3:17-19
Yahshua Messiah brought us a new covenant
As the lamb of God with his own blood
Mak 14:24
Luke 22:20

GOd decided to show us His mercy through the sacrifice of His son.......
JEsus showed us the love of God and the forgivness of God that could not have been seen in the Law.....
Ex. JEsus forgave the adulterous woman
And the other eldrs did not stone her
As He convicted them of their sin
John 8:1-11

So Jesus ussred in a new covenant to more or less give us a chance to rpent and see that God is love.....

But when Jesus returns He will ussure in a new kingdom and He will be King of Kings over the earth
Rvelation 9:11-16

During this time God will judge sinners as He did during
The days of sodom and gomorah......

Puritan Christians in Plymoth 1600s did flog wiches homosexuals and adulterers....but execution was rare.....
However they did have the salem witch executions.....

I persoanlly believe Jesus will reinstitute death sentences for these sins........during his 1000 year righn as king
As they were in the days of Moses......

But appawntly God is delaying judgement as He did in the days of Noah......for 100 years
2 peter 3:4-7
This day of judgement will be fire.....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Followers of Jesus are not supposed to use TORAH to condemn .
TORAH is GOOD when it is used PROPERLY.
THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION in CHRIST JESUS.
Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/romans/8-1.htm - Cached - Similar
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Holman Christian Standard Bible

Romans 8:2 - ‎Romans 7:25 - ‎New American Standard Bible - ‎Romans 8:1 NASB
Romans 8 KJV - There is therefore now no condemnation - Bible ...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8... - Cached - Similar
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. ... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in ...

What does it mean that there is no condemnation in Christ (Romans ...
Bible Questions Answeredno-condemnation.html - Cached
What does it mean that there is no condemnation in Christ (Romans 8:1)? ... By the grace of God, believers in Jesus Christ will not face the condemnation of God.

No Condemnation in Christ Jesus, Part 1 | Desiring God
www.desiringgod.org/.../no-condemnation-in-christ-jesus-part-1 - Cached - Similar
Sep 9, 2001 ... Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from ...

Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy ...
biblehub.com/romans/7-12.htm - Cached - Similar

And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good. 1 Timothy 1:8. Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it legitimately. Treasury of Scripture.
The Law is Holy, Just and Good — a Study of Matthew 5 | Grace ...
https://www.gci.org/law/sct08 - Cached - Similar

Romans 7:12 tells us that the law is good — but does this mean the law requiring physical circumcision is still in force? Of course not. This verse does not tell us ...
1 Timothy 1:8-10 - We know that the law is good if one - Bible Gateway

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We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the.

The Law is good if it is used to condemn people
??? Where is that written ....
 
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Theadorus

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Let me clarify.

Consider some of the things the Scripture says about the Law:

• The Law strengthened sin (1 Cor. 15:56).

• The Law was a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7 and 9).

• The Law gave guilt and knowledge of sin, not salvation (Rom. 3:19-20).

• The Law made sin come alive, and killed us (Rom. 7:9).

• The Law magnified sin and produced hopelessness (Rom. 7:13-25).

Why would God give us something with all these negative effects? It was because we were already beaten by sin and didn’t know it. Before we could be motivated to receive God’s gift of salvation by grace through faith in a Savior, we needed to be convinced that we couldn’t save ourselves.

So, the Lord revealed His standard of holiness (the Law), which was infinitely higher than any of us could ever attain. We had to come to the end of ourselves before we could begin to find God. The Law was perfectly suited to do that. It shut us up to faith so the only way we could look was up (Gal. 3:23).

When the Law is used for that purpose, then it is good (1 Tim. 1:8).

So If a person tries to tell you "I'm a good person, so I'll get into heaven." or that they don't need Jesus and they've done enough good things in life, that's when you hit them with the law. You show them that compared to God's standard of holiness, they have no chance in making it to heaven, and therefore they need Jesus. That's when you need to use the law to condemn them.

Believer: No. Unbeliever: Yes.
 
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Theadorus

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Christians, or people who believe in Jesus are not condemned. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (which you quoted). Jesus never condemned anyone, because he was demonstrating the grace and love of God (True nature of God). but he did tell them not to sin anymore.

God reconciled the relationship between Himself and Man. He is no longer punishing the world for there sins because he forgave them all through Jesus. Jesus also took the punishment for the sins of the entire world. There was hostility between us and God, and so Jesus came into the world to tare down that barrier (sin), and restored the relationship between us.

John 3:18, For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Theadorus

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We can keep going back and forth all day, so what can we agree on? I agree with a lot of your post, and I think a lot of this may just be misunderstandings between us (I know I don't always make myself clear).

I only answered 1/2 of the O.P question, but this was my answer: I believe that we are no longer under the law in order to earn righteousness/salvation; and that if you try to follow the law in order to earn God's love/favor, then it's a sin.
Does that mean we are free to sin? God forbid! how can we who are dead to sin live in it anymore (Romans 6:2). We have been set free form the power of sin that was once over us, and so we now have power over sin (The power not to sin; which we shouldn't do anyways).
 
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Soyeong

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Hi, I'm curious as to what the Christian position is when it comes to Jewish Law.

I know most Christians don't want to follow it, but if you did follow it, would it be a sin?

Sin is defined as the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), so it is the exact opposite of sin to follow it. God has by grace given us precious commands for our own good to teach us how to live through faith in a way that will prosper and bless us, so it is a shame that so many deprive themselves of this delight.
 
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Soyeong

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Gal 3:12-14 it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Romans 14:23, Everything that is not of faith is sin (that includes fear, doubt, unbelief, ect).

So if you try to live by the law to earn your righteousness, you are sinning.

Jesus said that faith is on of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law (Matthew 23:23), so the Mosaic Law is of faith, and straightforwardly it is in regard to having faith in God to guide us by grace in how to rightly live (Psalms 119:29). On the other hand, man-made works of law are not of faith and the law spoken about in Galatians 3:12 is referring to the works of law mentioned verse 10. So the Book of the Law is of faith and those who rely on man-made works of the law are under a curse for failing to live by everything in the Book of the Law, for the righteous shall live by faith. Living by faith has never referred to someone who was not living in obedience to God's commands, but just the opposite, every example of saving faith mentioned in Hebrews 11 is also an example of living in obedience to God's commands. So we are declared righteous by faith and by the same faith we are required to live in obedience to God's commands.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Hi, I'm curious as to what the Christian position is when it comes to Jewish Law.

I know most Christians don't want to follow it, but if you did follow it, would it be a sin?

This is a complex issue. First, we need to understand if it's the moral law or ceremonial ceremonial law you are referring to. Then we must certainly must understand that ALL of God's law was given with the sole purpose of driving men to Christ. The moral law is a mirror in which we see how desperate or sinful condition is, and the ceremonial laws point to Christ's person, work, office, or how our faith in Him ought to be lived out.

One critical thing to understand is that Christians do not follow the law in order to be justified. A Christian is justified by the grace of God through faith in (the work of) Christ. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
 
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Soyeong

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Yeah, philosophically that's terrific. But Paul is only doing that - speaking from a philosophical standpoint. Theoretically, if you don't murder, steal or covet, then you're essentially following the Law. But what if you do steal or do murder? Is it a sin to punish the sinner according to the Law of Moses?

Paul actually seems to be of the view that punishing sinners by using the Law of Moses is good. Consider his words in 1 Timothy 1:8 where he endorses the use of the Law for sinners such as homosexuals and adulterers and man-stealers.

So, is it a sin for a people to follow the Law of God the way, say, the Catholic church did or the way the Puritans did - i.e., by executing many sinners and keeping slaves?

Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins in our place, so while we should follow God's Law, we should not enforce a penalty that has already been paid.
 
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Soyeong

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Paul is in favor of the law if it's used correct. This is the same man who said that the Law was not of faith (Galatians 3:12), the Law killed and condemned (Corinthians 3:7), the Law strengthened sin (1 Corinthians 15:56), and the Law made sin come alive in us (Romans 7:11). Here, Paul was saying that there is a good use of the Law.

In regard to 2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 30:15-20 is up front that God's Law is a ministry of life and blessing if we are obedient and a ministry of death and cursing if we are not, so that fact that the law brings death for disobedience is hardly a good reason to live in disobedience to it.

In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with a law of sin that held him captive and that he served with his flesh. This is a summary of what was said before, it is the law of sin that came about to increase tresspasses (5:20), that held him captive (7:5), that stirred up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death (7:6), that gave sin its power (7:8), that caused sin to come alive (7:9), that seized the opportunity through the commandment to deceive and kill him (7:11), and that caused him not to do the good that he wanted (7:13-20), However, it is God's Law that was given to reveal what sin is (7:7), that is holy righteous, and good (7:12), that is the good that paul did not blame (7:13), and that is the good that he sought to do (7:13-20). So Romans 6:14 and 1 Corinthians 15:56 are likewise referring to the law of sin.

Paul was never against the Law of God; he was just against it as a means of obtaining right relationship with God (Romans 3:31).

The way to obtain a right relationship with God is through faith and by the same faith we are to uphold the law by living in obedience to it.

This was not its purpose (Romans 3:19). The Law is good if it is used to condemn people and bring them to a place where there is no deception about self-salvation. If the Law is used in that way, then it is good.

The Law is holy, righteous, and good straightforwardly because it is God's instructions for how to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12-13), which we are still told to follow as part of the New Covenant (1 Peter 1:13-16, 1 John 3:10, Ephesians 2:10).

The problem comes when people who have already come to the Lord for salvation try to continue to improve upon that relationship by their works, or by keeping of the Law. This is not right. The Law isn’t for those who are righteous through Jesus (1 Timothy 1:9).

That is to help explain 1 Tim 1:8

Speed limits are not for people who would normally drive at safe speeds even if there were no speed limits, but rather they are needed for people who would otherwise drive at unsafe speeds. In the same way, the Law is not needed for a righteous person because they are already doing what the Law requires, but rather the Law is needed to correct those who are not doing what is righteous. So if someone thinks that obeying the Law is not for them, then they are showing themselves to be precisely someone whom the Law is for.

It is indeed a problem if someone were to try to improve upon their relationship with God by keeping the Law, but it is important to understand that the Law was never given for that purpose in the first place, so it is a problem because it is a legalistic perversion of the Law. The one and only way to grow in a relationship with God is through faith and by the same faith we are required to live in obedience to God's Law, so obedience to the Law is an outworking of our faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, not something ever intended to be done apart from faith.

My personal belief would be that it would be sin to punish people accord to the law of Moses today (Those punishments were harsh and extreme, but they served their purpose of teaching people that sin was wrong). The old covenant came with the rules and regulation, but we are now under a new covenant and so I believe we have been freed from those types of punished/curses. Yes, there are still consequences to sin, and that's why God established the worldly authorities in order to bring about justice and what not. And yes, it was wrong what the Catholics did during those times. I hope that helped answer your question.

God's Laws are His instructions for how to act according to His attributes, so His holiness, righteousness, goodness (Romans 7:12), justice, mercy, faithfulness (Matthew 23:23), and other fruits of the Spirit (Exodus 34:6-7). For example, Leviticus 11:44-45 and 1 Peter 1:13-16 say to have a holy conduct because God is holy, so following those instructions is about acting according to the holiness of our God. If taking a particular action was in accordance with God's righteousness before Christ came, but now is no longer in accordance with God's righteousness, or vice versa, then God's righteousness has changed, but God's righteousness is eternal and unchanging (Psalms 119:142) and so therefore are all of His righteous laws (Psalms 119:160). So while we are indeed under a New Covenant with better promises and superior mediator, we do not have superior laws because that would involve following a superior God with superior attributes.
 
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Soyeong

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Let me clarify.

Consider some of the things the Scripture says about the Law:

• The Law strengthened sin (1 Cor. 15:56).

• The Law was a ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7 and 9).

• The Law gave guilt and knowledge of sin, not salvation (Rom. 3:19-20).

• The Law made sin come alive, and killed us (Rom. 7:9).

• The Law magnified sin and produced hopelessness (Rom. 7:13-25).

Why would God give us something with all these negative effects? It was because we were already beaten by sin and didn’t know it. Before we could be motivated to receive God’s gift of salvation by grace through faith in a Savior, we needed to be convinced that we couldn’t save ourselves.

So, the Lord revealed His standard of holiness (the Law), which was infinitely higher than any of us could ever attain. We had to come to the end of ourselves before we could begin to find God. The Law was perfectly suited to do that. It shut us up to faith so the only way we could look was up (Gal. 3:23).

When the Law is used for that purpose, then it is good (1 Tim. 1:8).

So If a person tries to tell you "I'm a good person, so I'll get into heaven." or that they don't need Jesus and they've done enough good things in life, that's when you hit them with the law. You show them that compared to God's standard of holiness, they have no chance in making it to heaven, and therefore they need Jesus. That's when you need to use the law to condemn them.

Believer: No. Unbeliever: Yes.

Do you believe that these verses are true?

Deuteronomy 6:24 And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as we are this day.

Deuteronomy 10:12-13“ And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I am commanding you today for your good?

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
 
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My personal belief would be that it would be sin to punish people accord to the law of Moses today (Those punishments were harsh and extreme, but they served their purpose of teaching people that sin was wrong). The old covenant came with the rules and regulation, but we are now under a new covenant and so I believe we have been freed from those types of punished/curses. Yes, there are still consequences to sin, and that's why God established the worldly authorities in order to bring about justice and what not. And yes, it was wrong what the Catholics did during those times. I hope that helped answer your question.

Just so I can make sure I understand you correctly: In your view, obeying the Law of God is a sin when it is applied the way God instructed for it to be applied?

Did I understand you correctly?

By the way, what denomination are you?
 
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To qnswer your question......
The God of abraham Isaac and Jacob
Gave us 2 covenants......
1 through Moses....the Law of Moses
2 new covenant through His son Jesus Messiah

GOd intituted the Law of Moses because of the rebellion of Israel and had to handle their rebellion with a firm hand
Galations 3:17-19
Yahshua Messiah brought us a new covenant
As the lamb of God with his own blood
Mak 14:24
Luke 22:20

GOd decided to show us His mercy through the sacrifice of His son.......
JEsus showed us the love of God and the forgivness of God that could not have been seen in the Law.....
Ex. JEsus forgave the adulterous woman
And the other eldrs did not stone her
As He convicted them of their sin
John 8:1-11

Perhaps we should not use the story of the woman taken in adultery because scholarship shows that these are not in the oldest manuscripts and are just later interpolations. So the story never happened, since it's likely just a legend passed on by early Christian scribes.

So Jesus ussred in a new covenant to more or less give us a chance to rpent and see that God is love.....

But when Jesus returns He will ussure in a new kingdom and He will be King of Kings over the earth
Rvelation 9:11-16

During this time God will judge sinners as He did during
The days of sodom and gomorah......

Puritan Christians in Plymoth 1600s did flog wiches homosexuals and adulterers....but execution was rare.....
However they did have the salem witch executions.....

I persoanlly believe Jesus will reinstitute death sentences for these sins........during his 1000 year righn as king
As they were in the days of Moses......

A few years ago, Uganda, a Christian majority nation, was reconsidering adding some Mosaic laws - one in particular that made headlines around the world was that they were going to start executing people caught in the act of homosexuality. Do you feel that the Christian leaders here would be sinning against God by enacting such laws? Would they be better Christians if they simply adopted secular, ungodly laws that we have in America and other Western nations?

But appawntly God is delaying judgement as He did in the days of Noah......for 100 years
2 peter 3:4-7
This day of judgement will be fire.....

Thank you.
 
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Followers of Jesus are not supposed to use TORAH to condemn .
TORAH is GOOD when it is used PROPERLY.
THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION in CHRIST JESUS.
Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/romans/8-1.htm - Cached - Similar
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Holman Christian Standard Bible

Romans 8:2 - ‎Romans 7:25 - ‎New American Standard Bible - ‎Romans 8:1 NASB
Romans 8 KJV - There is therefore now no condemnation - Bible ...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8... - Cached - Similar
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. ... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in ...

What does it mean that there is no condemnation in Christ (Romans ...
Bible Questions Answeredno-condemnation.html - Cached
What does it mean that there is no condemnation in Christ (Romans 8:1)? ... By the grace of God, believers in Jesus Christ will not face the condemnation of God.

No Condemnation in Christ Jesus, Part 1 | Desiring God
www.desiringgod.org/.../no-condemnation-in-christ-jesus-part-1 - Cached - Similar
Sep 9, 2001 ... Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from ...

Romans 7:12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy ...
biblehub.com/romans/7-12.htm - Cached - Similar

And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good. 1 Timothy 1:8. Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it legitimately. Treasury of Scripture.
The Law is Holy, Just and Good — a Study of Matthew 5 | Grace ...
https://www.gci.org/law/sct08 - Cached - Similar

Romans 7:12 tells us that the law is good — but does this mean the law requiring physical circumcision is still in force? Of course not. This verse does not tell us ...
1 Timothy 1:8-10 - We know that the law is good if one - Bible Gateway

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in 65 languages and 198 versions. - Cached - Similar
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the.


??? Where is that written ....

Check out 1 Timothy 1:8
 
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Sin is defined as the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), so it is the exact opposite of sin to follow it. God has by grace given us precious commands for our own good to teach us how to live through faith in a way that will prosper and bless us, so it is a shame that so many deprive themselves of this delight.

That was beautifully said.
 
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