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Is Human Equality just a concept?

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Adrian Moir

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Wow.

Do I even bother to point out that I'm not even Roman Catholic? Or do I let you just keep going? Either way. Very...interesting.

God bless?

-CryptoLutheran


Was there anything specific in regards to human equality that you disagree with?...Like other people having the inalienable right to it for example perhaps?...Because the right to speak comes from God who gives us free will, but, the will wasn't free because...It was bought with a price.
Which means that we are willing to to give examples...And not shy away from the challenges...Ok?
 
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Adrian Moir

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Wow.

Do I even bother to point out that I'm not even Roman Catholic? Or do I let you just keep going? Either way. Very...interesting.

God bless?

-CryptoLutheran

Quote:
Just so we're clear, I decided to not bother with pointing out your flagrant use of an ad hominem attack to flame another poster, and you decided to take aim at the statement I have in my signature? And not actually even address what my signature is saying, but just mention something about vegetable patches?

Are you okay? Do you need a hug?

-CryptoLutheran

My reply:
Your logic, as far as I was concerned was communist because you began this discussion by attacking me over my human equality, stating that I was from an "ad hominem". Which is not only offensive but it's also not scriptually based at all. So either you mock your own human equality because you don't believe in equality, or, you've just simply rejected it like a Nihilist has.

And the more you try and patch this up with scripture without giving a reason first for rebuking your God given equality; The more you are displaying your rejection of Christ's work on the cross for the sins of the world.

God bless (And I mean it this time).
 
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Adrian Moir

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Oy veh. Alright.



Not really though. You resorted to responding to my signature. Something appears on literally every post I have without my control, because it's set in my account settings.



I'd be more than happy to discuss the theology of the matter if you'd like in a more appropriate place on the forum, such as General Theology (and, hopefully, if you are willing to do so civilly). Nothing in my signature is contrary to ordinary, orthodox Christian teaching.

If you truly do disagree with what is in my signature, and not just whatever you seem to imagine is there (vegetable patch? Really? What on earth are you talking about?), then I would consider that grounds for concern, theologically speaking.

I can't think of anything in your basic description of salvation that I would disagree with, (though I am confident that there is much on the matter that we do disagree with if any such in depth discussion on the subject matter were to occur).

I'm not actually sure what it is you are taking issue with. Do you disagree with the resurrection? That God is going to set all things to rights? That God is going to bring about new heavens and new earth in the Age to Come? Because if so, then like I said, then there is a real theological problem. Because this is pretty basic Christianity 101 stuff. The Apostles' Creed says, "We believe ... in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God ... who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, buried, dead, descended into the place of the dead, rose on third day, ascended into heaven, where He sits at the right hand of the Father. From whence He will come again to judge the living and the dead. ... We believe ... in the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting." The Nicene Creed spells it out with slightly more detail, "We believe ... in the life of the Age to Come." And all you have to do is look right there in St. John's Apocalypse which you've already quoted to see that in St. John's final vision he beholds the renewal of all creation, where we read, "Behold! I make all things new!"



Cool? What logic would that be? And could you demonstrate where I've used any fallacious reasoning so far? You seem to still be talking about what is written in my signature, so I am actually quite curious what your issue is with the "logic" of m signature might be.



Gotta be real honest, I don't think you really mean it. But may the Lord be also with you.

-CryptoLutheran

Quote by ViaCrucis
You're not going to be winning many awards engaging in blatant ad hominem flaming.
-CryptoLutheran

My reply:
This was the first comment to me from you, and you were doing exactly what you were claiming that I had done. So as far as I'm concerned you're a catholic communist who is defending evolution, and not the Bible.
So unless you can admit that you were denying your human equality by rejecting the Biblical premise for it from law, then I will not believe that you will be able to excuse yourself from scripture either, because God's promise was for all and not just a few.
 
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Larniavc

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Allow me to make a few predictions here if I may:

I predict for one, that you cannot even provide one simple demonstration of how instructions can form from nature.

And second; I predict that any attempt you make will involve the terminology that is used to describe a cretion with, such as: design - make - produce...etc

And thirdly, I will predict that your attitude will degenerate rapidly through the process of trying to demonstrate the impossible.
You are correct. Instructions do not arise from nature. It’s all unguided, my dude. No guidance has ever been shown. Unless of course, you can evidence that guidance.

Merry Xmas.
 
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Adrian Moir

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You are correct. Instructions do not arise from nature. It’s all unguided, my dude. No guidance has ever been shown. Unless of course, you can evidence that guidance.

Merry Xmas.


Sorry? I didn't catch your unclear, unlettered and unsubstantiated proof that instructions are "unguided" as you claim they are...So this will mean automatically that the origin of instructions was not natural.

Merry Christmas
 
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The happy Objectivist

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Throughout time humanity has divided itself based on land disputes as well as disputes over which laws are fair, and which laws are not fair. Historically, the fairest systems of law have not only included collective distributions to the poor, but also rights for the poor in order that their cause should be heard, which is the sole basis for case law (common law).

The most unfair systems in history have been empires with imperial ambitions to rule and govern people as a whole, leaving little or no room for the cause of the poor to be heard and understood from their hardships. An imperial rule is no different to a fascism historically, because both imperial rule and government dictatorships rely on covet means to expand their interests abroad to include foreign territories for resources, and direct taxation of the inhabitants to fund imperial ambitions.

The best way to describe the differences between these two systems of rule is to imagine a straight line with a 100% margin at the left end of the line, and a 0% margin at the far right of the line. The far left represents total government, which is defined as a fascism because of its totalitarian authority.
The far right on the other hand is distinguished by having no government, which is defined as anarchy, because there is no system of law in place.

Between these two scopes there is a wide margin between anarchy and fascism, with the conservative view in the middle. The conservative view includes a system of law from the government that protects the people's right to life and liberty.
A democratic republic is defined as a conservative system, because the democracy is from the far right, while the republic is from the far left.
A constitutional system of law presides from the middle of these two extremes as being conservative, which is in the best interests of the democracy, and the republic. Because if democracy is not upheld by the republic then the government is to be defined as a fascism, and not as a democratic republic.

The declaration of independence in its second paragraph says that:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

And these words have had such a significant level of importance on human life that the declaration itself is never to be underestimated in terms of its value. Because, this is the sole basis for human equality, and without human equality, there will be no lawful premise for equal justice.

So according to the First Amendment, the human being is endowed with rights, and these rights have been defined as inalienable, meaning that a person is born with them, and they cannot be given away, and can be exercised at any time.
But what makes this different from being just a concept is due to the fact that we are all endowed with a conscience in order to understand morality, which is how we decide right from wrong.

And what is self-evident here, is that no amount of chemical reactions can ever become self-aware, which means that life is a conscious reality, and not just a physical one, which is self-explanatory.
The difference between being conscious, and having a conscience, is that the conscience is specifically for determining fact from fiction, the truth from a lie, and yes or no with. While being conscious means to be aware of your surroundings, yourself and to be breathing also, because, being conscious was initially from breath to begin with according to Genesis chapter 2.

And what all of this means is that we are all equal under the law according to our God given conscience, and not, according to one's appearance. And this is the international standard for equal rights according to article 1 from the United Nations Global Declaration of Human Rights and Equality.
The definition of what a natural person is under law, has been defined as being an individual who is endowed with the ability to reason from their conscience. So the proper legal definition of what a human is under law has been defined by the endowed conscience. Which means that without a conscience, you are not a human being, but only an animal or a thing.

An animal or thing has been legally defined as property under the law. But because slavery is unlawful, as it deprives people of their equality, it will mean that there is no legal obligation for anyone to regard them self or others as being from an animal, because an animal is without a conscience, and a conscience is required before the law in order to make a case.

What is the first liberty?
Freedom of thought (also called freedom of conscience or ideas) is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints.

What do we mean by freedom of conscience?
Freedom of conscience – sometimes called “freedom of worship” or “religious freedom” – means simply the freedom to worship in one's own way, including the right not to worship.

Psalm 41:1-3
1 Blessed is the one who considers the poor!
In the day of trouble the Lord delivers him;
2 the Lord protects him and keeps him alive;
he is called blessed in the land;
you do not give him up to the will of his enemies.
3 The Lord sustains him on his sickbed;
in his illness you restore him to full health.
Freedom of thought and "collective distributions" can not exist together. Those who claim the collective ownership of wealth are really claiming collective ownership of the mind, which is the source of all wealth.
 
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Adrian Moir

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Freedom of thought and "collective distributions" can not exist together. Those who claim the collective ownership of wealth are really claiming collective ownership of the mind, which is the source of all wealth.



....? The source of all wealth is by creativity and there is no other example. The first liberty is the freedom of conscience, which is not only freedom of thought. And as you would have it to enslave the mind of others to believe they cannot have a religion of their own choosing, and still be protected under law.
When the law protects freedom of belief, and not freedom to deny our freedom of conscience, which is universal.
Merry Christmas

United Nations Global Declaration of Human Rights and Equality
Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


Dictionary
Definitions by Oxford Languages
creativity
/ˌkriːeɪˈtɪvɪti/
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noun
1.
the use of imagination or original ideas to create something; inventiveness.
"firms are keen to encourage creativity"
Similar:
inventiveness
imagination
 
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Larniavc

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Sorry? I didn't catch your unclear, unlettered and unsubstantiated proof that instructions are "unguided" as you claim they are...So this will mean automatically that the origin of instructions was not natural.

Merry Christmas
The burden of proof is on you, friend. You claim it is guided. You need to substantiate that claim. Unless you are asking me to prove a negative?

Seasons greetings.
 
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Larniavc

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The source of all wealth is by creativity and there is no other example.
Or conquest. Or accident of birth. Or theft. Unless your definition of creativity is any action at all?
 
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Adrian Moir

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The burden of proof is on you, friend. You claim it is guided. You need to substantiate that claim. Unless you are asking me to prove a negative?

Seasons greetings.



It's interesting how you're requesting proof from me in regards to something which is self-evident. Such as the fact that no amount of chemical reactions can ever become self-aware, and also, that instructions do not come from nature. And because instructions were necessary for genetic instructions it will mean that the origin of instructions was supernatural, which self-explanatory. Now what I have just said is not true and factual, but it also happens to be incontestable as well. So any claim that chemical reactions can become self-aware without the need for pre-existing life requires proof, and theory does not constitute as fact...So get your facts right, and Merry Christmas. Thank you.





upload_2021-12-17_19-16-3.jpeg
In a civil lawsuit, the burden of proof rests on the plaintiff or the person filing the suit. The plaintiff should prove that the allegations are true and that the defendant, or the other party, caused damages. When it comes to establishing a civil case, the plaintiff must usually do so by a preponderance of evidence.
 
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Adrian Moir

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Or conquest. Or accident of birth. Or theft. Unless your definition of creativity is any action at all?



The best examples are often the most simple ones. And the best example of special creation is procreation, which involves two entirely separate biological systems coming together to form a much larger system (temporarily) during intercourse, that generates pregnancy and a child is produced.
And the only examples we have of this process is from engineering, because there is a design and development strategy in place that produces a product via a manufacturing base that relies on reproduction to facilitate a product that supports other more larger systems.
And it is only the functionality of the system/s that is to be regarded as a natural process, while the instructions that govern a system are rules called parameters which are a systems limitations.
These limitations are encoded within genetic coding and are primary in importance compared to the chemical components. Because components do not make up a system, but the rules do.


Does procreate mean reproduce?
To procreate is to reproduce. In other words, to procreate is a more formal way of saying "making babies." -Vocabulary.com

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procreation
/prəʊkrɪənˈeɪʃ(ə)n/
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noun
the production of offspring; reproduction.
"in general animals copulate purely for the purpose of procreation"


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reproduction
/riːprəˈdʌkʃ(ə)n/
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noun
1.
the action or process of copying something.
"the cost of colour reproduction in publication is high"
Similar:
copying
2.
the production of offspring by a sexual or asexual process.
"toads converge upon lakes and ponds intent on reproduction"
Similar:
breeding
producing young
procreation
multiplying
propagation

What is reproduction and example?
Reproduction is defined as the creation of a copy of something, a copy of something, or the act of sexual intercourse to create an offspring. An example of a reproduction is a copied drawing. ... Something reproduced, especially in the faithfulness of its resemblance to the form and elements of the original. Your Dictionary.com

What is systems theory?
A system is a group of interacting or interrelated elements that act according to a set of rules to form a unified whole. A system, surrounded and influenced by its environment, is described by its boundaries, structure and purpose and expressed in its functioning. Systems are the subjects of study of systems theory. -Wikipedia
 
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Adrian Moir

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Or conquest. Or accident of birth. Or theft. Unless your definition of creativity is any action at all?


The theory of evolution is described as belief according to the dictionary, while the act of creation is defined as an action. So there is your proof.
Merry Christmas.

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evolution
/ˌiːvəˈluːʃ(ə)n,ˈɛvəluːʃ(ə)n/
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See definitions in:
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noun
1.
the process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
Similar:
Darwinism
natural selection

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creation
/kriːˈeɪʃ(ə)n/
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noun
1.
the action or process of bringing something into existence.
"creation of a coalition government"
Similar:
design
2.
the creating of the universe, especially when regarded as an act of God.
 
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Larniavc

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It's interesting how you're requesting proof from me in regards to something which is self-evident.
If it is self evident then you should have no problem supplying said evidence.

Using the scientific method means that if one asserts something one must provide evidence to support that assertion. This is similar but different to asking for evidence in a legal context.

So, if you assert that something is true, you need to evidence that true.

To be clear: my position is “you have not substantiated your assertion”. I’m not even say that your assertion is wrong- I can’t even comment on it until you provide evidence to support your conclusion.

Contrast with me saying that it’s self evident that humans were created by the Sumerian god Enki.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

All the best.
 
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Larniavc

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The best examples are often the most simple ones. And the best example of special creation is procreation,
That’s not special creation. Special creation is ex nilo.

What you are describing is sexual reproduction which has never been shown to be anything other that a physical process.
 
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Larniavc

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The theory of evolution is described as belief according to the dictionary, while the act of creation is defined as an action. So there is your proof.
You’re using an argument from definition which is a logical fallacy.

So your assertion that the two definitions you provide can act as proof can be rejected. Definitions are descriptive rather than prescriptive.

Hope this finds you well.
 
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Adrian Moir

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You are correct. Instructions do not arise from nature. It’s all unguided, my dude. No guidance has ever been shown. Unless of course, you can evidence that guidance.

Merry Xmas.


Dictionary
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guidance
/ˈɡʌɪd(ə)ns/
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noun
1.
advice or information aimed at resolving a problem or difficulty, especially as given by someone in authority.
"he looked to his father for inspiration and guidance"
Similar:
Guidance
Intelligence
2.
the directing of the motion or position of something, especially an aircraft, spacecraft, or missile.
"a laser guidance system"

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system
/ˈsɪstəm/
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noun
1.
a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network; a complex whole.
"the state railway system"

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rule
/ruːl/
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noun
1.
one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct or procedure within a particular area of activity.
"the rules of cricket"
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regulation
ruling
law

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law1
/lɔː/
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noun
1.
the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.
"shooting the birds is against the law"
Similar:
rules and regulations
system of laws
code


What is genetic coding?
The genetic code is a set of rules defining how the four-letter code of DNA is translated into the 20-letter code of amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins.

What is a system?
A system is a group of interacting or interrelated elements that act according to a set of rules to form a unified whole. A system, surrounded and influenced by its environment, is described by its boundaries, structure and purpose and expressed in its functioning. Systems are the subjects of study of systems theory.
 
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Adrian Moir

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If it is self evident then you should have no problem supplying said evidence.

Using the scientific method means that if one asserts something one must provide evidence to support that assertion. This is similar but different to asking for evidence in a legal context.

So, if you assert that something is true, you need to evidence that true.

To be clear: my position is “you have not substantiated your assertion”. I’m not even say that your assertion is wrong- I can’t even comment on it until you provide evidence to support your conclusion.

Contrast with me saying that it’s self evident that humans were created by the Sumerian god Enki.

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

All the best.


If you wish to make a case against the universal principle of human equality from a science, then please, put it in writing and send it to the United Nations human rights commission.
Because I'm sure they would be very interested in the deluded rants of a radical Nihilist who has denied their own humanity, and now wishes for others to do the same.
A human being is defined by their conscience and this is self-evident according to the United States declaration of independence, and the United Nations human rights declaration, which is notwithoutstanding in its own legal defence, meaning that it is incontestable before the law. So no matter what you believe regarding human equality, it will always be the law which will define the matter and determine the merit of an individual's case from the premise of human equality for the benefit of everyone, because the law does not accommodate to someones denial of their own human equality. Which is self-explanatory.
 
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Adrian Moir

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I did not.


This was your first post to me on this thread:
"That’s not self evident. That’s where all life ultimately came from".

My reply:
I have heard you plea of denial before again and again and again. So allow me to make this clear for you here:
You have been arguing with me in regards to human equality for over two days now, and now, all of the sudden, just right out of no where, you have decided that you will change your mind by denying that you have been challenging me on the issue of human equality, and whether it is self-evident or not.
And the only lesson you have taken away from this is that you cannot challenge other peoples right to human equality from a science before the law.
But yet, you still believe that I am going to listen to you from your science when it was the basis for your denial in human equality to begin with.

Good luck with that.
 
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Larniavc

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This was your first post to me on this thread:
"That’s not self evident. That’s where all life ultimately came from".

My reply:
I have heard you plea of denial before again and again and again. So allow me to make this clear for you here:
You have been arguing with me in regards to human equality for over two days now, and now, all of the sudden, just right out of no where, you have decided that you will change your mind by denying that you have been challenging me on the issue of human equality, and whether it is self-evident or not.
And the only lesson you have taken away from this is that you cannot challenge other peoples right to human equality from a science before the law.
But yet, you still believe that I am going to listen to you from your science when it was the basis for your denial in human equality to begin with.

Good luck with that.
Friend, if you’d like to go back and read post 45 you’ll see your comment that I was replying to.

Adrian Moir said:
And what is self-evident here, is that no amount of chemical reactions can ever become self-aware,

So let’s not muddy the water with equality when that is not what we are discussing- this is an interesting discussion- iron sharpens iron, eh?
 
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