Is Human Equality just a concept?

[Adrian Moir]

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't support that with your characteristic dictionary definition. No doubt an oversight on your part. Let me fix that for you.

com·plex·i·ty
/kəmˈpleksədē/

noun

the state or quality of being intricate or complicated.


Hmmm, somehow your definition doesn't seem to quite match. So I guess I'll have to stick with by my original premise...if the 2nd law of thermodynamics is correct, then complexity must increase out of sheer necessity, no intent required.

There is a major difference between random complexity and organizational complexity:

What do you mean complexity?
1 : the quality or condition of being difficult to understand or of lacking simplicity the complexity of a problem. 2 : something difficult to understand or lacking simplicity the complexities of business.

Define Organization?
1 : the act or process of arranging He assisted in the organization of a new club. 2 : the state or way of being arranged We studied the organization of government. 3 : a group of people united for a common purpose a business organization.

What is organized complexity Jane Jacobs?
Jane Jacobs is known for her suggestive use of the then new idea of 'organized complexity'. She proposed that cities were best understood as 'problems of organized complexity' which meant “dealing simultaneously with a sizeable number of factors which are interrelated into an organic whole” (Jacobs 1961; 432).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you keep mentioning the 2nd law of thermodynamics as though this is evidence for naturalism when the second law of thermodynamics refers to energy (heat) as dissipative, which means that without a source of energy things will cool down and not heat up due to thermal exchange.

And if the universe is a closed system, which it is, then no amount of energy can enter or escape the system, which means that the amount of thermodynamic input to the universe is 0 and this means that nothing would ever cause an explosion (like a big bang) to occur, because where is the energy coming from if the universe began as nothing, which is what the theory of evolution claims.


What is 2nd law of thermodynamics in physics?
The second law of thermodynamics states that heat transfer occurs spontaneously only from higher to lower temperature bodies.

 

[Adrian Moir]

Okay, excellent.

Now I want you to increase the entropy in that random set of letters.

...What for? It will happen all by itself naturally over time because there is nothing to organize the letters into a sequence...Not that a sequence was intended anyway, as all instructional sequences are.
Which is an example of how nature cannot organize a genetic sequence.

And if entropy decrease is something you believe can occur naturally, then please, provide an example where entropy is decreased within an open system without resorting to aggravation if you kindly would...
Because as it stands, the only way for entropy to reach a zero point is for the disorder to be reversed back to its intended structure, which implies automatically that open systems were organized to begin with and were not randomly made.

 

[Landon Caeli]

@Adrian Moir, what does any of this have to do with human equality?

 

[Adrian Moir]

@Adrian Moir, what does any of this have to do with human equality?

I totally agree that this is seemingly useless when trying to scientifically validate that human beings are equal in todays world. But unfortunately that was the direction that the scientific Atheists here want to go, because if there is a Biblical connotation to the message then they will reject the premise of the moral point that was made.

So the only way to bring morality to a Nihilist is to explain valid scientific demonstrations that are both practical and ethical, as opposed to secular interpretations, which are always based on government propaganda, because he who pays for lunch stays for lunch.

 

[Adrian Moir]

@Adrian Moir, what does any of this have to do with human equality?

This is a copy of my first reply to a comment on this thread, and I was calling out an equality denier on the basis of his premise, which was naturalism (evolution). And this is how it all got started unfortunately...
So I guess I owe an apology there on that one. Sorry

Qutation:
That's the second paragraph from the Declaration of Independence, not the constitution. The first ammendment - of the constitution, is concerned with the 'establishment of religion'.

You haven't really convinced anyone you know enough about what you are discussing to prompt any reasonable replies (and neither did your thread on evolution). -Bradskii

My reply:
Thank you for that. I was typing away and got side tracked. And your argument from evolution was based on denial and not evidence. If you have anything to support the theory please get back to me. But as it stands the only way a system can come into existence is by creativity. Because a system does not arise naturally from natural circumstances, and it is only the functionality of a system that is to be regarded as a natural process. So I would hate to burst your bubble but no amount of chemical reactions can become self-aware, which is self-explanatory. And because the origin of systems and biological instructions cannot come from any of the ten dimensions of reality, it will mean by way of demonstration that the origin of life was not natural, but supernatural, which is self-evident.

 

[partinobodycular]

@Adrian Moir, what does any of this have to do with human equality?

You are absolutely right, and my apologies.

 

[Adrian Moir]

You are absolutely right, and my apologies.

Why are you apologizing to me? You should be apologizing to the moderator who sent me this comment.
Thank you though, and I apologize in advance if I have this mixed up?

 

[Job 33:6]

...What for? It will happen all by itself naturally over time because there is nothing to organize the letters into a sequence...Not that a sequence was intended anyway, as all instructional sequences are.
Which is an example of how nature cannot organize a genetic sequence.

And if entropy decrease is something you believe can occur naturally, then please, provide an example where entropy is decreased within an open system without resorting to aggravation if you kindly would...
Because as it stands, the only way for entropy to reach a zero point is for the disorder to be reversed back to its intended structure, which implies automatically that open systems were organized to begin with and were not randomly made.

I gave an example earlier. Entropy decreases during the cooling and formation of organized snow flakes.

 

[Adrian Moir]

I gave an example earlier. Entropy decreases during the cooling and formation of organized snow flakes.

...Yes? And your example was utterly debunked and now you suffer from complete denial.
And you're also very famous around here for repeating yourself over and over again as a result of your denial.
And I for one refuse to deal with harassment that stems from an individuals inability to accept a self-evident reality on the basis of his/her beliefs....So no deal.

 

[Adrian Moir]

I gave an example earlier. Entropy decreases during the cooling and formation of organized snow flakes.

Qutation:
If people think that entropy cannot decrease in an open system, I would wonder how they explain snowflakes forming when the weather gets cold. (From Isa 41:10's best evidence of all time archive).

My reply:
Gee, that's brilliant... Why didn't I think of that? Maybe it was because a snowflake cannot reproduce another snowflake...
As though little Miss snowflake wants a husband now.
Every snowflake that forms reaches a level of natural complexity and then it will naturally fade, which is no different to an open system, but the difference is that snowflakes cannot reproduce another snowflake...
Which means automatically that they must form naturally, while living organisms must procreate instead of waiting in the refrigerator for a suitable partner to form.

 

[Job 33:6]

...Yes? And your example was utterly debunked and now you suffer from complete denial.
And you're also very famous around here for repeating yourself over and over again as a result of your denial.
And I for one refuse to deal with harassment that stems from an individuals inability to accept a self-evident reality on the basis of his/her beliefs....So no deal.

What is debunked about decreasing entropy during formation of snowflakes? There's nothing debunked about it, it's just a regular process that involves decreasing entropy.

Regarding your response that snowflakes don't reproduce, reproduction has nothing to do with thermodynamics. Entropy is a concept of physics, not biology.

Are you saying that you agree that decreasing of entropy does occur in snowflakes and in nature, but doesn't occur in biological reproducing systems?

 

[Adrian Moir]

What is debunked about decreasing entropy during formation of snowflakes? There's nothing debunked about it, it's just a regular process that involves decreasing entropy.

Regarding your response that snowflakes don't reproduce, reproduction has nothing to do with thermodynamics. Entropy is a concept of physics, not biology.

Snowflakes are not an example of entropy decrease because they're without instructions...Allow me to explain:

In order for entropy to decrease there must first be a level of order in place, because entropy is defined as disorder within an organized system.
And an organized system is subject to degeneration as a result of the heat exchange between the system and its environment that causes disorder.
And the energy (heat) which is present within the system must be utilized by the working components of the system as a power source, which is according to a set of parameters that governs the systems functionality.
And that is because cold is not an energy source but a lack of heat, which is the reason why we don't use cold fusion generators to heat our at home...(Unfortunately).

Definitions by Oxford Languages:

Dictionary
Search for a word
parameter
/pəˈramɪtə/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
noun
1.
TECHNICAL
a numerical or other measurable factor forming one of a set that defines a system or sets the conditions of its operation.
"there are three parameters by which a speaker is able to modify the meaning of the utterance—pitch, volume, and tempo"

Continued:-
A system is governed by rules and not by the parts alone, because the parts of a system are considered as a non system individually, technically speaking.

So unless there is a level of creative organization in place first that is applied to matter in order for a system to be invented then the entropy cannot decrease, because, entropy decrease is defined as reverse mutation.
And reverse mutation involves the need for instructions to be mutated before they need repairing.
Which is the same for a computer program as the disorder within a program is called non coding information, and the more non coding information that piles up, the more likely that a virus will occur that damages the systems software called malware.


How are viruses removed from computers?
The easiest way to remove viruses is by using an antivirus program designed to clean your system safely. If a virus is already on your computer, however, you may need to run this program under very specific conditions.


How are many mutations repaired?
Cells have a variety of mechanisms to prevent mutations, or permanent changes in DNA sequence. During DNA synthesis, most DNA polymerases "check their work," fixing the majority of mispaired bases in a process called proofreading.

 

[Adrian Moir]

What is debunked about decreasing entropy during formation of snowflakes? There's nothing debunked about it, it's just a regular process that involves decreasing entropy.

Regarding your response that snowflakes don't reproduce, reproduction has nothing to do with thermodynamics. Entropy is a concept of physics, not biology.

Are you saying that you agree that decreasing of entropy does occur in snowflakes and in nature, but doesn't occur in biological reproducing systems?

The Second Law of Thermodynamics
The Second Law of Thermodynamics | Biology for Majors I

A living cell’s primary tasks of obtaining, transforming, and using energy to do work may seem simple. However, the second law of thermodynamics explains why these tasks are harder than they appear. None of the energy transfers we’ve discussed, along with all energy transfers and transformations in the universe, is completely efficient. In every energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in a form that is unusable. In most cases, this form is heat energy.

Thermodynamically, heat energy is defined as the energy transferred from one system to another that is not doing work. For example, when an airplane flies through the air, some of the energy of the flying plane is lost as heat energy due to friction with the surrounding air. This friction actually heats the air by temporarily increasing the speed of air molecules. Likewise, some energy is lost as heat energy during cellular metabolic reactions. This is good for warm-blooded creatures like us, because heat energy helps to maintain our body temperature. Strictly speaking, no energy transfer is completely efficient, because some energy is lost in an unusable form.

An important concept in physical systems is that of order and disorder (also known as randomness). The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Scientists refer to the measure of randomness or disorder within a system as entropy. High entropy means high disorder and low energy (Figure 1).

To better understand entropy, think of a student’s bedroom. If no energy or work were put into it, the room would quickly become messy. It would exist in a very disordered state, one of high entropy. Energy must be put into the system, in the form of the student doing work and putting everything away, in order to bring the room back to a state of cleanliness and order.

This state is one of low entropy. Similarly, a car or house must be constantly maintained with work in order to keep it in an ordered state. Left alone, the entropy of the house or car gradually increases through rust and degradation. Molecules and chemical reactions have varying amounts of entropy as well. For example, as chemical reactions reach a state of equilibrium, entropy increases, and as molecules at a high concentration in one place diffuse and spread out, entropy also increases.

Figure 1. Entropy is a measure of randomness or disorder in a system. Gases have higher entropy than liquids, and liquids have higher entropy than solids.

 

[Adrian Moir]

What is debunked about decreasing entropy during formation of snowflakes? There's nothing debunked about it, it's just a regular process that involves decreasing entropy.

Regarding your response that snowflakes don't reproduce, reproduction has nothing to do with thermodynamics. Entropy is a concept of physics, not biology.

Are you saying that you agree that decreasing of entropy does occur in snowflakes and in nature, but doesn't occur in biological reproducing systems?

The instructional force of the (word):
By Adrian Moir
Words are base instructions, so they must have a predetermined figure (value) which has derived originally from (sound) that creates the vibrational patterns which organizes matter into geometric patterns. And not by chance, but by the energy from the force of the vibrational (note), that specifies for the arrangements of all atoms to arrange any molecular structure by its universal instructional force, which is a vibrational resonance that will govern the whole process of any pattern natural development we see.

Instructional information from resonate vibrational notes are the different frequencies that controls the process to initialize the DNA RNA folding sequences which builds the proteins inside of a living cell.
All matter must obey this observed principal, as it has been demonstrated by the way vibrational frequency sweeps control the arrangement for the pattern development of all matter at a sub-atomic level from the atomic nuclei.

The atomic nuclei is the most powerful force in existence that is guided only by the organizing force of instructional vibrational (notes) at different frequency sweeps, which were pre-determined in the beginning by a source for vibrational instructions that is translatable into music as well.

A correct wave of instrumental notes will create the right atmosphere for emotional thought processes to help develop a good set of reasoning skills to learn by as the resonant vibrational notes help stimulate our feelings that can have a positive or negative polar effect on the mind and body depending if the tune is in balance with the vibrations that arise from within the body via our emotions.

Emotions and thoughts are also a vibrational frequency that is kept in tune by the instructional notes to begin with, which is the same as a standard for all of the different types of different instruments to be tuned from.
And this is the same for all matter in existence, because the 7 instructional base notes do act as the perfect harmonic calibrator that holds all things in the balance.


Online Resources:
The impact of music on the bioelectrical oscillations of the brain.
Acta Med Litu. 2018; 25(2): 101–106.doi: 10.6001/actamedica.v25i2.3763
US National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
As mentioned before, brainwaves can be altered by various external stimuli. Auditory stimuli and especially music are among the most interesting. As the famous British neurologist Oliver Sacks states, “our auditory systems, our nervous systems are tuned for music. Perhaps we are a musical species no less than a linguistic one”. Indeed, starting with Alfred A. Tomatis’ ideas and, later, Don Campbell’s book The Mozart Effect, scientists have never stopped investigating the impact of music on the brain.


People also ask
What are musical notes called?
Clefs and Note Names. ... Music notes are named after the first seven letters of the alphabet: A, B, C, D, E, F, G. The two clefs that are primarily used are the treble clef and bass clef. The treble clef, is also known as the 'G-clef'
www.classicfm.com


People also ask
Does listening to classical music raise your IQ?
Studies suggest that listening to classical music can improve your hearing, spatial reasoning skills and even general intelligence.


Quotation:
"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter."
- Max Planck

Max Planck was a German theoretical physicist who discovered the quantum of action, now known as Planck's constant, h, in 1900. This work laid the foundation for quantum theory, which won him the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1918.


John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


Amazing Resonance Experiment

Demonstrating Resonance with Chladni Figures - Christmas Lectures with Charles Taylor

Gregg Braden Water Vibration and Sacred Geometry

Bruce Lee: Be like water (Inspirational)

 

[Job 33:6]

The instructional force of the (word):
By Adrian Moir
Words are base instructions, so they must have a predetermined figure (value) which has derived originally from (sound) that creates the vibrational patterns which organizes matter into geometric patterns. And not by chance, but by the energy from the force of the vibrational (note), that specifies for the arrangements of all atoms to arrange any molecular structure by its universal instructional force, which is a vibrational resonance that will govern the whole process of any pattern natural development we see.

Instructional information from resonate vibrational notes are the different frequencies that controls the process to initialize the DNA RNA folding sequences which builds the proteins inside of a living cell.
All matter must obey this observed principal, as it has been demonstrated by the way vibrational frequency sweeps control the arrangement for the pattern development of all matter at a sub-atomic level from the atomic nuclei.

The atomic nuclei is the most powerful force in existence that is guided only by the organizing force of instructional vibrational (notes) at different frequency sweeps, which were pre-determined in the beginning by a source for vibrational instructions that is translatable into music as well.

A correct wave of instrumental notes will create the right atmosphere for emotional thought processes to help develop a good set of reasoning skills to learn by as the resonant vibrational notes help stimulate our feelings that can have a positive or negative polar effect on the mind and body depending if the tune is in balance with the vibrations that arise from within the body via our emotions.

Emotions and thoughts are also a vibrational frequency that is kept in tune by the instructional notes to begin with, which is the same as a standard for all of the different types of different instruments to be tuned from.
And this is the same for all matter in existence, because the 7 instructional base notes do act as the perfect harmonic calibrator that holds all things in the balance.


Online Resources:
The impact of music on the bioelectrical oscillations of the brain.
Acta Med Litu. 2018; 25(2): 101–106.doi: 10.6001/actamedica.v25i2.3763
US National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
As mentioned before, brainwaves can be altered by various external stimuli. Auditory stimuli and especially music are among the most interesting. As the famous British neurologist Oliver Sacks states, “our auditory systems, our nervous systems are tuned for music. Perhaps we are a musical species no less than a linguistic one”. Indeed, starting with Alfred A. Tomatis’ ideas and, later, Don Campbell’s book The Mozart Effect, scientists have never stopped investigating the impact of music on the brain.


People also ask
What are musical notes called?
Clefs and Note Names. ... Music notes are named after the first seven letters of the alphabet: A, B, C, D, E, F, G. The two clefs that are primarily used are the treble clef and bass clef. The treble clef, is also known as the 'G-clef'
www.classicfm.com


People also ask
Does listening to classical music raise your IQ?
Studies suggest that listening to classical music can improve your hearing, spatial reasoning skills and even general intelligence.


Quotation:
"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter."
- Max Planck

Max Planck was a German theoretical physicist who discovered the quantum of action, now known as Planck's constant, h, in 1900. This work laid the foundation for quantum theory, which won him the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1918.


John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


Amazing Resonance Experiment

Resource from youtube:
Demonstrating Resonance with Chladni Figures - Christmas Lectures with Charles Taylor

None of this has anything to do with the fact that there is a decrease in entropy during snowflake formation.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics
The Second Law of Thermodynamics | Biology for Majors I

A living cell’s primary tasks of obtaining, transforming, and using energy to do work may seem simple. However, the second law of thermodynamics explains why these tasks are harder than they appear. None of the energy transfers we’ve discussed, along with all energy transfers and transformations in the universe, is completely efficient. In every energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in a form that is unusable. In most cases, this form is heat energy.

Thermodynamically, heat energy is defined as the energy transferred from one system to another that is not doing work. For example, when an airplane flies through the air, some of the energy of the flying plane is lost as heat energy due to friction with the surrounding air. This friction actually heats the air by temporarily increasing the speed of air molecules. Likewise, some energy is lost as heat energy during cellular metabolic reactions. This is good for warm-blooded creatures like us, because heat energy helps to maintain our body temperature. Strictly speaking, no energy transfer is completely efficient, because some energy is lost in an unusable form.

An important concept in physical systems is that of order and disorder (also known as randomness). The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Scientists refer to the measure of randomness or disorder within a system as entropy. High entropy means high disorder and low energy (Figure 1).

To better understand entropy, think of a student’s bedroom. If no energy or work were put into it, the room would quickly become messy. It would exist in a very disordered state, one of high entropy. Energy must be put into the system, in the form of the student doing work and putting everything away, in order to bring the room back to a state of cleanliness and order.

This state is one of low entropy. Similarly, a car or house must be constantly maintained with work in order to keep it in an ordered state. Left alone, the entropy of the house or car gradually increases through rust and degradation. Molecules and chemical reactions have varying amounts of entropy as well. For example, as chemical reactions reach a state of equilibrium, entropy increases, and as molecules at a high concentration in one place diffuse and spread out, entropy also increases.

Figure 1. Entropy is a measure of randomness or disorder in a system. Gases have higher entropy than liquids, and liquids have higher entropy than solids.

This is all fine and dandy. Snowflake formation involves decreases in entropy.

 

[Job 33:6]

Snowflakes are not an example of entropy decrease because they're without instructions...Allow me to explain:

In order for entropy to decrease there must first be a level of order in place, because entropy is defined as disorder within an organized system.
And an organized system is subject to degeneration as a result of the heat exchange between the system and its environment that causes disorder.
And the energy (heat) which is present within the system must be utilized by the working components of the system as a power source, which is according to a set of parameters that governs the systems functionality.
And that is because cold is not an energy source but a lack of heat, which is the reason why we don't use cold fusion generators to heat our at home...(Unfortunately).

Definitions by Oxford Languages:

Dictionary
Search for a word
parameter
/pəˈramɪtə/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
noun
1.
TECHNICAL
a numerical or other measurable factor forming one of a set that defines a system or sets the conditions of its operation.
"there are three parameters by which a speaker is able to modify the meaning of the utterance—pitch, volume, and tempo"

Continued:-
A system is governed by rules and not by the parts alone, because the parts of a system are considered as a non system individually, technically speaking.

So unless there is a level of creative organization in place first that is applied to matter in order for a system to be invented then the entropy cannot decrease, because, entropy decrease is defined as reverse mutation.
And reverse mutation involves the need for instructions to be mutated before they need repairing.
Which is the same for a computer program as the disorder within a program is called non coding information, and the more non coding information that piles up, the more likely that a virus will occur that damages the systems software called malware.


How are viruses removed from computers?
The easiest way to remove viruses is by using an antivirus program designed to clean your system safely. If a virus is already on your computer, however, you may need to run this program under very specific conditions.


How are many mutations repaired?
Cells have a variety of mechanisms to prevent mutations, or permanent changes in DNA sequence. During DNA synthesis, most DNA polymerases "check their work," fixing the majority of mispaired bases in a process called proofreading.

You don't really get to just invent how you think entropy does or does not work. The freezing of water and the orderly collection of molecules into snowflakes is an occurrence which involves a decrease in entropy. And this is just a simple fact of thermodynamics. It is not debatable.


Section 13.1: Requirements for Reaction

"When ice melts, the change is endothermic ( H is positive), and entropy increases ( S is positive) as the water molecules lose ordered arrangement of ice crystals. The T S factor for melting ice at 298 K is numerically larger than H; the free energy change G is then negative, so melting is spontaneous at that temperature.

Similarly, the freezing of water at temperatures below 273 K is an example of a spontaneous change that is exothermic and accompanied by a decrease in entropy (an increase in order)."

 

[Landon Caeli]

Entropy. Disorder...

I would hope we could discuss these things without becoming them. This is the Ethics and Morality forum, for goodness sakes.

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[Landon Caeli]

.

 

[Adrian Moir]

None of this has anything to do with the fact that there is a decrease in entropy during snowflake formation.

You do not understand what organization is from instructions anymore than you can instruct a symphony orchestra.
Natural patterns arise naturally and then fade, they do not evolve into anything more complex, because, there are instructions missing.
And I for one can only say it so many times before I am forced to abandon all hope in you as a lost cause.
Nature cannot specify with intent...Which is why nature does not cause instructions to arise...And a decrease in entropy is the reversal of instructional mistakes (mutations) within a system.

What is coding and decoding in software?
Coding essentially attributes lines of code to a program (which can be a computer program or a software installed on a robot, for example). Decoding reverses those line of codes. It deconstructs the programming that has been made.

What are genetic instructions?
The instructions in a gene that tell the cell how to make a specific protein. A, C, G, and T are the "letters" of the DNA code; they stand for the chemicals adenine (A), cytosine (C), guanine (G), and thymine (T), respectively, that make up the nucleotide bases of DNA