Is homosexuality an Abomination before the Lord?

[JimfromOhio]

We all are sinners and I don't see myself any better than homosexuals. I am not yet perfect and that I still make mistakes. I am a forgiven Christian who is still learning. This is my own "self-examination" regarding my relationship with God and my brethren in Christ. I thank God and my Lord Jesus Christ that I am done with the past and I do now trust in my Savior for full deliverance from all my sins.

I believe the hardest part as a Christian is being like-Christ and try to live in a "blameless" life. We do not expect our "leaders" to be the only ones who are acting like-Christ and live in a blameless life. ALL Christians must live in a blameless life, be the shining light to the lost and bring them to Christ. We all should be known as a person of Christian character and conduct and there should be demonstrable evidence of our spiritual matured, Christian character.

In order to make things better, we are to work with them rather go against them.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

We all are sinners and I don't see myself any better than homosexuals. I am not yet perfect and that I still make mistakes. I am a forgiven Christian who is still learning. This is my own "self-examination" regarding my relationship with God and my brethren in Christ. I thank God and my Lord Jesus Christ that I am done with the past and I do now trust in my Savior for full deliverance from all my sins.

I believe the hardest part as a Christian is being like-Christ and try to live in a "blameless" life. We do not expect our "leaders" to be the only ones who are acting like-Christ and live in a blameless life. ALL Christians must live in a blameless life, be the shining light to the lost and bring them to Christ. We all should be known as a person of Christian character and conduct and there should be demonstrable evidence of our spiritual matured, Christian character.

In order to make things better, we are to work with them rather go against them.

So do you think that a practicing homosexual is saved?

 

[Criada]

So do you think that a practicing homosexual is saved?

Some are, some aren't.
Is any practising sinner saved?
Cos if not, I for one have had it!

 

[ReformedChapin]

Some are, some aren't.
Is any practising sinner saved?
Cos if not, I for one have had it!

I think he means someone currently practicing homosexuality is saved. And I guess that means one currently murdering can be saved as well applying that logic.

 

[JimfromOhio]

So do you think that a practicing homosexual is saved?

What make you think that person is not saved?

Only God can judge a person's heart. The REAL thief is in our hearts. In Proverbs 21:2 "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT). The heart is where God meets us because that is where we make our decisions. I often use my role-model, David, who was never perfect and was a sinner as I am but at the same time, God announced that David was after God's heart. "David son of Jesse is a man after my own heart, for he will do everything I want him to do." Acts 13:22 & 1 Samuel 13:14 (NLT). God meets us in our heart rather than our mind therefore we need to focus on the "heart of the matter".

No Church, No Denomination, No pastors or anyone (including you) can tell me whether I am saved or not. Only the Holy Spirit who able to convict me of my salvation.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I think he means someone currently practicing homosexuality is saved. And I guess that means one currently murdering can be saved as well applying that logic.

Any "practicing" sins can be considered the same. Think of all the "practicing" sins we do in our own lives. Then we can look at the doctrine and say "oh no, I am like them?"

 

[ReformedChapin]

What make you think that person is not saved?

Only God can judge a person's heart. The REAL thief is in our hearts. In Proverbs 21:2 "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT). The heart is where God meets us because that is where we make our decisions. I often use my role-model, David, who was never perfect and was a sinner as I am but at the same time, God announced that David was after God's heart. "David son of Jesse is a man after my own heart, for he will do everything I want him to do." Acts 13:22 & 1 Samuel 13:14 (NLT). God meets us in our heart rather than our mind therefore we need to focus on the "heart of the matter".

No Church, No Denomination, No pastors or anyone (including you) can tell me whether I am saved or not. Only the Holy Spirit who able to convict me of my salvation.

Yes but scripture also states that homosexuals, murderers, blasphemers will not enter the kingdom of God. Jesus also states that those with a regenerate nature will produce good fruit, how then can someone purposefully practice abomination and still be saved?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Any "practicing" sins can be considered the same. Think of all the "practicing" sins we do in our own lives. Then we can look at the doctrine and say "oh no, I am like them?"

No, you are presupposing all sins are the same when scripture CLEARLY shows that is not the same. Why did God trip out when DAVID murdered and committed adultery but not when he committed other small sins?

 

[Lisa0315]

Well, here is the thing about practicing sin...If we are striving for perfection, then, we would give up all sinful relationships. There is just no way that a person would not be convicted to do that from everything I have read in Scripture. Those who are practicing homosexuals AND are claiming to be Christians, well, it just does not add up. Same goes for adultery, same goes for any other sin.

Now, that does not mean that someone who is gay, gets saved, strives for perfection, and in a Spiritual crisis falls into sin again, is not saved. It means that the person would repent, be chastened, and hopefully mature in the Lord so that it would become less and less likely that they would fall into that same sin again.

To say that one can go about sinning, unrepenting, is, (if it is possible, and I just don't believe that it is), but if it is possible, it is an abuse of grace which is a sin in of itself.

There is just no way around this one. Sexual sin is sin and one cannot practice sin without consequences.

Lisa

 

[nyj]

Saint John Bosco had a vision where he was told that most people who will wind up in Hell, will be there for sins of a sexual nature. Sobering thought (at least for this Catholic).

 

[JimfromOhio]

Yes but scripture also states that homosexuals, murderers, blasphemers will not enter the kingdom of God. Jesus also states that those with a regenerate nature will produce good fruit, how then can someone purposefully practice abomination and still be saved?

Matthew 5:26-28 (King James Version)
26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In John 8 (King James Version), Jesus dealt with the the scribes and Pharisees of a woman committed adultery. Jesus wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

What does it mean to become like Jesus Christ? That is the REAL question. There are so many who will proclaim to be a Christian but only few are really Christians. That's not my place to judge them except GOD.

 

[JimfromOhio]

No, you are presupposing all sins are the same when scripture CLEARLY shows that is not the same. Why did God trip out when DAVID murdered and committed adultery but not when he committed other small sins?

Small or large.. THEY ALL ARE THE SAME

 

[Lisa0315]

I have always been taught that all sin is the same in the eyes of God. I don't know what that is based upon though.

Lisa

 

[nyj]

I disagree Jim. 1 John 5 (verse 16 for example):

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] Obviously two different types of sin there. Mortal and Not Mortal. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] [/FONT]

 

[JimfromOhio]

I disagree Jim. 1 John 5 (verse 16 for example):
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.

Obviously two different types of sin there. Mortal and Not Mortal.
[/FONT]

There are two kinds of sinning:

1. Sin on purpose (with a will) Those who were unwilling to pick up the Cross and unwilling to put away their sins as Christ commanded. (Those who proclaimed to be a Christian will probably remain "unsaved" falls in this category).

2. Sin by accident as part of our sinful nature: Those who are in Christ Romans 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Galatians 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

Christians will still sin but how we respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit when we sin. The new creature in Spirit within us as for example Jesus likened the religious Pharisees to a group of dishwashers who clean the outside of a cup while leaving the inside dirty. He said, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness. Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?" (Luke 11:39-40). Jesus knew that a person can change his image without changing his act (Matthew 23:1-3).

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 1 Corinthians 2:10-12

As Christians, with the help from the Holy Spirit, we have the understanding of what pleases God; our thoughts, our desires, our affections that are transformed in over time. From our old creature, we learned worldly desires and causing us to think more worldly. Our selfish desire for happiness and getting what we WANT are really more worldly than spiritually.

We cannot be like Pharisees setting up superficial rules to make people abide their "rules".

 

[ReformedChapin]

Matthew 5:26-28 (King James Version)
26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In John 8 (King James Version), Jesus dealt with the the scribes and Pharisees of a woman committed adultery. Jesus wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

What does it mean to become like Jesus Christ? That is the REAL question. There are so many who will proclaim to be a Christian but only few are really Christians. That's not my place to judge them except GOD.

Scripture is more than clear that ANY sin is a clear crime against God and causes death. But scripture also recognizes that there is different degrees of sin. I think that it also points that if you consistently perform abominations that show that you are not one of Gods regenerate believers.

And there is also a difference between "judging and recognizing" I think you have to recognize that Jim. That's why scripture says...

But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. 1 These false teachers 2 will 3 infiltrate your midst 4 with destructive heresies, 5 even to the point of 6 denying the Master who bought them.

and jesus tells us to recognize a tree by its fruits

You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered 1 from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? 2

 

[Time2BCounted]

Again i think we must side with scripture...

John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Jesus says there are greater, and therefore lesser sins


Jim, what scripture would justify one who remains within homosexuality, still claiming salvaiton? We become new creatures, a repentant homosexual would have turned from his sin

 

[JimfromOhio]

Scripture is more than clear that ANY sin is a clear crime against God and causes death. But scripture also recognizes that there is different degrees of sin. I think that it also points that if you consistently perform abominations that show that you are not one of Gods regenerate believers.

And there is also a difference between "judging and recognizing" I think you have to recognize that Jim. That's why scripture says...


But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. 1 These false teachers 2 will 3 infiltrate your midst 4 with destructive heresies, 5 even to the point of 6 denying the Master who bought them.

and jesus tells us to recognize a tree by its fruits

You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered 1 from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? 2

There will ALWAYS be false Christians who are within our faith and using Christianity to lead us from the truth. How you go about it is wrong. We all are bound to confront unexpected challenges that will strike us with the fear of the unknown. We have to remember that faith is effective when there is unity.

Judging based on appearance and doctrines are man-centered more than God-center. Appearance is one thing but fruit of the Spirit is the other. "You should not judge", is not the same as "fruit inspector", or "discerning true and false teachings". People who don't discern are those who are "ignorance". Its really interesting about people are mixing "judging" and "discerning". Jesus gave us the formula for finding out "false prophets," but the devil are using people to tell us we should "not judge." So people are telling us: "God didn't make you a judge so therefore do not inspect fruits." Jesus gave us wonderful examples and one of His great example is "By THEIR FRUITS you shall know them" Christians are too look at the WHOLE package of a Christian. Do not have a tunnel vision" based on their teachings alone. You need to look at their whole being. By THEIR fruits, you shall know them. The problems when we look at their fruits, we judge based on doctrine rather than spiritual salvation.

I believe that each of us, as an individual, have a responsibility before God, to determine what is true about God and also what is false. What is true about God impacts every aspect of our lives.

For AN EXAMPLE, I could even consider you a false believer because of how you believe and how you control the forum. ( I am not saying you are, but you are doing this). Using knowledge without facts can easily lead us to a clearly false conclusion. Conclusions drawn in this manner are usually overgeneralizations.

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch that doesn't produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more." Jesus Christ John 15:1-2

Are we allowing God's will in pruning us so we will bear more fruit?

Are we judging Christians and non-Cristians? For as we judge others so we will be judged by God. Are we heavenly minded or earthy minded? In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" Romans 14:10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat."

 

[Latreia]

Obligatory other

In the Bible, it is an abomination.
To many Christians, it is a SIN.

And to some, it is an inescapable dilemma.

If I may, it seems to me that sin actually means that which damages human lives.
Sin also is destructive to the human spirit.
It is that which prevents a soul from reunion with God, the Creator.

Only God can accept or deny a soul,
only He knows it's worth and acceptance as His own.

Therefore, I am not able to judge a soul, even my own. Like my life, it was given to me and as with both, shall they be taken from me.

What is left then, perhaps, is what do we choose in each of our own minds and hearts to consider this reality?

Someone once said: "Judge not where you have no compassion."

Compassion forbids accusations of sin and abomination. Christ gave His Answer.

That is my answer.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Scripture is more than clear that ANY sin is a clear crime against God and causes death. But scripture also recognizes that there is different degrees of sin. I think that it also points that if you consistently perform abominations that show that you are not one of Gods regenerate believers.

And there is also a difference between "judging and recognizing" I think you have to recognize that Jim. That's why scripture says...




and jesus tells us to recognize a tree by its fruits

See post # 58