Is homosexuality an Abomination before the Lord?

[Criada]

Thing is - no-one is debating it! We all agree. And no -one from any church which accepts it is likely to read this.. doubt many practising homosexuals will either...
So I am not sure what the point of this is...

 

[Cromwe11]

Thing is - no-one is debating it! We all agree. And no -one from any church which accepts it is likely to read this.. doubt many practising homosexuals will either...
So I am not sure what the point of this is...

I have long since lost track of the number of arguments I've had with people who actually agreed with me, but couldn't stop saying "but" and of course every time they said "but" I had to have a "but" too

 

[edie19]

posted by Criada: Thing is - no-one is debating it! We all agree. And no -one from any church which accepts it is likely to read this.. doubt many practising homosexuals will either...
So I am not sure what the point of this is...

I have long since lost track of the number of arguments I've had with people who actually agreed with me, but couldn't stop saying "but" and of course every time they said "but" I had to have a "but" too

LOL - sounds so familiar.

I've finally gotten past the point where I'm so busy planning what I'm going to say next that I don't hear what's being said to me. Now I make every attempt to listen to the other person and really think before responding. Took me a long time though (I'm no spring chicken)

 

[desmalia]

Thing is - no-one is debating it! We all agree. And no -one from any church which accepts it is likely to read this.. doubt many practising homosexuals will either...
So I am not sure what the point of this is...

I'm pretty sure the purpose of this thread was to find out if we're still allowed to speak these things openly or not. And while the mods have let it go (for now?), it seems there is a movement towards completely avoiding such simple bold statements.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm pretty sure the purpose of this thread was to find out if we're still allowed to speak these things openly or not. And while the mods have let it go (for now?), it seems there is a movement towards completely avoiding such simple bold statements.

 

[rmw8855]

Here is what CoyoteWild said about why he started the thread:

Indeed, this a very good observation.
For not once in this thread has anyone, to my recollection, expressed any hatred toward homosexuals.

"Abomination" has been defined time and again here according to biblical sources or tradition, or even possibly social effects.
Relevant discussions and disagreements have centered on whether salvation is possible, whether there is there different degrees of sin and how homosexuality fits into sexual sin in general, or whether homosexuality is defined through attraction or behavior, but whatever the diagreements, nobody here has come out as bigoted or hateful against any homosexual person.

This never even entered in the discussion once.

It is good then to realize that amongst those (here) who take the Bible most seriously, it is a baseless accusation to assume that their beliefs are based in prejudice and bigotry. As such, to insist that they must keep defending themselves against such accusations is a form of bigotry and base politicking in and of itself.

Conservative Christians, and Christianity in general are just not the problem for homosexuals. No, it is the rednecks, or street rubbies, and those nominal to the Christian message that homosexuals most have to fear of being bashed by. Thise with a little bit of knowledge are the most dangerous indeed.

Certainly there is a very real and profound and unbridgeable difference betwen liberals and conservative Christians on this subject, and between conservative Christians believe, and what practicing homosexuals believe about themselves. Authentic reading of the bible in the biblical tradition of the last 2500 years ensures that this will be so.

But to assume that the typical Conservative Christian is opposed to homosexual behavior based on any underlying sense of bigotry or prejudice or hatred or revulsion is more than just unfortunate name-calling, or smearing of the conservative Christian label.

Really, on the evidence of this thread, it would be a downright lie to maintain any of those insinuations against the conservative Christian, as he/she present himself here in this forum.

And just as an aside, given that a paltry 5 voted no, and that none of these five entered into the discussion, this would be a fairly good indication that conservative Christians do indeed own this forum, and are very much capable of setting the agenda here.

We can afford a little magnanamity toward those who do not think as we do.

Really 5 votes are likely a good indication of how few people read the OP of a poll before voting, rather than anything else.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I'm pretty sure the purpose of this thread was to find out if we're still allowed to speak these things openly or not. And while the mods have let it go (for now?), it seems there is a movement towards completely avoiding such simple bold statements.

Desi, that's simply not the case.

As conservative Christians, we are absolutely allowed to voice our thoughts on homosexuality. Please don't stir the pot, sister

 

[rmw8855]

I'm pretty sure the purpose of this thread was to find out if we're still allowed to speak these things openly or not. And while the mods have let it go (for now?), it seems there is a movement towards completely avoiding such simple bold statements.

We are free to speak about any thing we want, with the few exceptions listed in our temporary suspension (site rules, mgmt, other forums) as long as we do not resort to flames / insults. If we address the issue only, as we have done regarding homosexuality, and don't attack a specific group / person then there is no problem.

Example: In this thread we discussed that homosexuality was wrong based on the bible (chapter & verse), but we never addressed the homosexuals themselves (the act not the person).

This subject is an extremely sensitive one, which we addressed openly voicing our conservative opinion, yet we still managed to discuss it freely without reports being filed because there was nothing that could be reported.

 

[Renton405]

Yes, it is obvious in the bible that homosexuality is a sin..

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Yes, it is obvious in the bible that homosexuality is a sin..

Hey Ren.......good to see you in here

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well, I will put in my 2 sheckles.
It is a sin. No matter if we try to be pc or not.
It is a sin whether or not we sugar coat it.

As far as I know.. it is a sin when acted upon.

I have no idea how much God judges anyone on thots about lust...
Because Jesus did say just 'looking with lust' is a sin.

SOooooo... all I can say is what the Bible says.
It is a sin.

And alas it is definitely one of the ones mentioned as more offensive to God. [Corinthians]

So I suppose it is one to avoid.

 

[desmalia]

We are free to speak about any thing we want, with the few exceptions listed in our temporary suspension (site rules, mgmt, other forums) as long as we do not resort to flames / insults. If we address the issue only, as we have done regarding homosexuality, and don't attack a specific group / person then there is no problem.

Example: In this thread we discussed that homosexuality was wrong based on the bible (chapter & verse), but we never addressed the homosexuals themselves (the act not the person).

This subject is an extremely sensitive one, which we addressed openly voicing our conservative opinion, yet we still managed to discuss it freely without reports being filed because there was nothing that could be reported.

Indeed many have spoken Biblical truth on this, and have been allowed to do so, which I am greatly encouraged by. What concerns me is those who feel a need to cast judgment on us for speaking up, which has been done by several members here, as if we are not PC enough. Not judging mods specifically for doing this. My comments are directed toward the general PC nature that some express here, which does concern me. I would like to see the mods take more of a stand in protecting the CC doctrines here. I know that's probably not realistic. But none the less, it would be nice to see. I'm sorry this if this is not in keeping with the current probation on CC members, but I feel it should be said. My desire is not to promote disrespect, but simply to stand for Scripture. If that is offensive, I am sorry. I'm not intending to cause strife, but simply to promote the truth of our Lord for all to enjoy.

 

[Nadiine]

Indeed many have spoken Biblical truth on this, and have been allowed to do so, which I am greatly encouraged by. What concerns me is those who feel a need to cast judgment on us for speaking up, which has been done by several members here, as if we are not PC enough. Not judging mods specifically for doing this. My comments are directed toward the general PC nature that some express here, which does concern me. I would like to see the mods take more of a stand in protecting the CC doctrines here. I know that's probably not realistic. But none the less, it would be nice to see. I'm sorry this if this is not in keeping with the current probation on CC members, but I feel it should be said. My desire is not to promote disrespect, but simply to stand for Scripture. If that is offensive, I am sorry. I'm not intending to cause strife, but simply to promote the truth of our Lord for all to enjoy.

I'm sorry I haven't been closely following this thread to have noticed this, are cc members doing this? or non members?

 

[edie19]

I'm sorry I haven't been closely following this thread to have noticed this, are cc members doing this? or non members?

Not exactly sure what your question refers to - but in this thread (and others) CC members have taken an extremely strong stance and there have been minimal issues and/or difficulties, proving it isn't so much what we say as it is how we say it.

We're allowed to take a strong Biblical stance on an issue!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Not exactly sure what your question refers to - but in this thread (and others) CC members have taken an extremely strong stance and there have been minimal issues and/or difficulties, proving it isn't so much what we say as it is how we say it.

We're allowed to take a strong Biblical stance on an issue!

Exactly, Edie. In fact, I'd go even further and say if we *don't* take a strong Biblical stance on this, and in general, CC isn't the forum for us.

 

[Nadiine]

Not exactly sure what your question refers to - but in this thread (and others) CC members have taken an extremely strong stance and there have been minimal issues and/or difficulties, proving it isn't so much what we say as it is how we say it.

We're allowed to take a strong Biblical stance on an issue!

I was asking Des if she meant cc members were being PC or non members. I didn't fully understand her meaning.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I don't think there was any judging going on, but there was a sub-discussion as to why homosexuality is the key sin these days.

Cromwell may have nailed it on the head when he said that homosexuality is the hot social button. Abortion was a really hot one, and now it's legal to kill an unborn child. Now, it's homosexuals wanting equal rights, and even special rights. This isn't really news, as "domestic partners" have been clamoring for this for quite some time.

When we preach about homosexuality being a sin, we have to remember that it is a sin amongst many. I believe that was the point that was being raised here. But I don't see people shying away from talking about other sins, either. This thread happened to be about homosexuality, so it makes sense that we're not going to be speaking about abortion and other sins. In the broad scope of things, however, we realize that ALL sin is heinous and an affront to God.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Society as a whole is sitting in water while the burner is on.

I think the confusion is gross...
IE, it is not nice to call a sin a sin.

But it is not judging our brothers and sisters that we discuss this topic, but counseling that we do not do these things.

We are our brothers keepers.
God wants His message sent out...
He wants Christians to be His role models...even if we are less than perfect, we should not use that excuse to give in or accept what He deemed as sin.

See, I understand the fine line. Telling someone they are going to hell because of such and such sin is judging them as a person...
Telling them they could go to hell if they do not discontinue the sin is more charitable.

Judging is in the way we phrase it. [Goodness knows I have seen a share of remarks that only anger someone and not conducive to healing them]

God doesnt want us to judge anyone, but He does want us to warn them.

And alas, as St John said, there are sins unto death and sins not unto death.

When they tell us that God gave them up to reprobate, that means He removed His friendship [Grace] from them and allows them to live according to the flesh which He calls an abomination. [Leviticus]

Jesus did not come to change the moral code of ethics... but He came to employ them [moral obligations] in order that we stay in His doctrines and friendship and live with Him eternally.

In order for anyone to be forgiven of these sins, the sin must discontinue and the sinner must repent.

And then because the sinner is prone to this temptation, they must pick up their cross and follow Jesus... and subdue their bodies...lest they lose the prize.

Just some thoughts that I hope helps everyone understand that sins unto death are serious and lead us to death [hell] as John proposed...
And it is as with all sin, a pentitent act that may restore us to God's Graces again.

Peace.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Also I want to add this seperately so it wont be lost in my former post.

Two things we know in the Bible...

IF we judge, we will be judged the measure we gave out.

If we do not stop someone from sinning, and we know it is a sin, we stand accused for not saving that soul.

Fine line on a tight rope.

So the bottom line becomes...
IN all things charity.... and not accusations.

More bees with honey and all of that.
For one sinner to convert, all of Heaven rejoices.

Peace!

 

[Nadiine]

Also I want to add this seperately so it wont be lost in my former post.

Two things we know in the Bible...

IF we judge, we will be judged the measure we gave out.

If we do not stop someone from sinning, and we know it is a sin, we stand accused for not saving that soul.

Fine line on a tight rope.

So the bottom line becomes...
IN all things charity.... and not accusations.

More bees with honey and all of that.
For one sinner to convert, all of Heaven rejoices.

Peace!

I think I'm getting the meaning of your post here, but I'd only make the statement that we don't "save" souls if we don't stop someone from sinning.
It's our duty to kindly inform people about what God commands or wants of us, but the rest is on them after we give them the information.

People out promoting and supporting sin in God's name (as self proclaimed Christians) are most likely going to have alot more to answer for than the people living in the sins.

We give the information kindly and gently - if people rebel or attack becuz the information makes them angry, then we have right to use rebuke or harsher replies to contend for the faith - they're then to be rejected, not coddled.

Titus 3:10
Reject a factious man
after a first and second warning,​

factious= heretic, follower of false doctrine, schismatic

Short commentary:
(9-11) Remember to keep on course.
But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.
a. Avoid foolish disputes: These are some of the things which ought not to be taught warned against in Titus 1:11. These foolish disputes are simply unprofitable and useless. Instead, Titus should focus on the simple word of God.
i. Avoid: “The word peristemi literally meaning to turn oneself about so as to face the other way (cf. 2 Timothy 2:16 where it is used in a similar manner).” (Guthrie)
ii. “The Jewish Rabbis spent their time building up imaginary genealogies for the characters of the Old Testament. . . . It is much easier to discuss theological questions than to be kind and considerate and helpful at home, or efficient and diligent and honest at work.” (Barclay)
b. Reject a divisive man: Titus must take measures against those who insist on going their own way. Their self-will makes them self-condemned.
i. “Labour to convince him of his error; but if he will not receive instruction, if he has shut his heart against conviction, then – burn him alive? No, even if demonstrably a heretic in any one sense of that word, and a disturber of the peace of the church, God gives no man any other authority over him but to shun him. Do him no harm in body, soul, character, or substance; hold no communion with him; but leave him to God.” (Clarke)