Is Homeopathy medicine or quackery?

[USincognito]

I hijacked (or at least attempted to) another thread about homeopathy last week. Last Friday night 20/20 featured a John Stossel segment debunking it. It's cold and flu season and Zicam commercials are filling the airwaves. In light of these facts I wanted to initiate a discussion about homeopathy, ask if any of you believe in it or it's principles and see if Christians are more or less succeptible to the quackery of CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine).

As I pointed out in the other thread some of the basic beliefs of homeopathy are rediculous.

- Water has memory.
- Shaking (sucussing) the mixure is very important to confering the memory.
- The dilutions get stronger the more dilute they are.
- Dilutions where the concentrations of the original substance are below Avogadro's Number are medicine.

And that's just some of the basic principles. You can see from this page that is skeptical of homeopathy that the principles have no basis in fact, that the treatments are unefficatious, and that the homeopath community actually represents a health hazzard to those who use the treatments.

Any Thoughts?

 

[MartinM]

< staff edit > < staff edit > < staff edit >.

Oh, and homeopathy is quite obviously bunk. No plausible mechanism - < staff edit > , no mechanism at all. No evidence of any effect. No case to answer.

 

[ObbiQuiet]

I choose quackery. I can't ignore the chance to vote "quackery," because the word is intrinsically hillarious.

 

[Physics_guy]

It is some of the most obvious and probably odious quackery in the world. Personally I find it more dangerous than "therapeutic touch" which seems to have at least a psychological calming effect (someone standing over you paying atention to you helps sometimes) - homeopathy offers absolutely nothing more than placebo effect.

 

[Data]

I still don't understand how people could beleive this, let alone swear by it. (which they do)

 

[ThePhoenix]

1. The Law of Least Action, formulated by Maupertius, the French mathematician, states : "The quantity of action necessary to affect any change in nature is the least possible, the decisive amount is always a minimum, an infinitesimal."

Health is a matter of perfect equilibrium, perfect balance, trifling circumstances may sway it, and so may it be balanced by the least possible in medication.

That quote actually bears a disturbing resemblance to chaos theory, that of small changes having amazingly disproportionate results on complex systems. Honestly I'd rather see some data on the effectiveness then principle statements. Remember the alchemists were trying to turn lead into gold, but they managed to find some interesting chemical effects.

 

[Iddie4him]

This type of healing is obviously faulted and needs to be looked at closer before people go out and buy all this junk thinking that it will cure them or lessen the severity of their cold or whatever. I vote quackery.

 

[PhantomLlama]

The idea that heavily diluted substance X is more effective than concentrated substance X is suspect to say the least, but to claim that a solution so dilute it contains no actual solute is useful is utterly, utterly, ridiculous.

If homeopaths could find some mechanism for 'remembering' the substances, they would be in for a Nobel prize for sure (the only possible competitor being one of those disproofs of evolution we hear so much about).

 

[LorentzHA]

Yes, it is bunk.

But I will say that the best way to keep yourself health is a healthy diet, exercise and a multi-vitamin everyday like Centrum...it helps a lot.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Wow, if water has a "memory" and stuff gets stronger as it is more diluted then would'nt all the world's water smell like dinosaur poop?

I have heard these claims before, and they are insane. Homeopaths take a substance and dissolve it in water, then dilute it by factors of several million and expect it to get stronger? Dilute something by 1:100, then by 1:100 then by 1:100 up to 20 times as homeopaths do and you wind up with a single molecule of the substance in enough water to fill the Pacific ocean.

And these guys think people will take them seriously. Well, actually some do.

 

[PhantomLlama]

Yes, but people take Hovind seriously. Plausibility of claims is not a factor in determining how likely they are to be believed.

 

[MySavior]

Yes, but people take Hovind seriously. Plausibility of claims is not a factor in determining how likely they are to be believed.

A lot of YECs are into this self healing, my folks to name two. They think Doctors are evil. I think it is silly. To me Docs are smart people and if you are sick you need to go to them not fix it by yourself, it might be somthing bad. Right?

 

[USincognito]

Please forgive the shameless bump, but I'm wondering... still if there are any who check out this forum that are willing to defend homeopathy?

 

[Will13]

....and a multi-vitamin everyday like Centrum...it helps a lot.

Just as long as the guys are taking vitamins specifically for men......

 

[LorentzHA]

Just as long as the guys are taking vitamins specifically for men......

Yes, some vitamins are more beneficial to men and men certainly do not need the extra iron that women do.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

So why is it so over the top ridiculous? Isn't it similar to getting a flu shot? Allowing the body to take over after inducing it too? Not defending it, don't know too much about it...just figured I would play devils advocate.

 

[PhantomLlama]

So why is it so over the top ridiculous? Isn't it similar to getting a flu shot? Allowing the body to take over after inducing it too? Not defending it, don't know too much about it...just figured I would play devils advocate.

No. Vaccination works on the principle that the immune system remembers past attackers and as such will be more equipped to deal with a proper infection.

 

[USincognito]

So why is it so over the top ridiculous? Isn't it similar to getting a flu shot? Allowing the body to take over after inducing it too? Not defending it, don't know too much about it...just figured I would play devils advocate.

Do for many reasons but here's two.

1. You don't actually put flu virus in a homeopathic rememdy and then dilute it. You put something that would cause runny nose and aches into a remedy and dilute it. Further, all you do is mix the substance with water, shake it (and the shaking is very important), then dilute it tens or hundreds of times. And don't forget, the more you dilute the remedy, the more powerful it becomes. Which leads us to:

2. Vaccines actually contain inactive or weakened pahtogens allowing the immune system to generat antibodies to fight a full strengh attack by the disease. Homeopathic remedies are almost to a one diluted to the point where it falls below Avogadro's number meaning any remant of the original substance would be there purely by accident. Of course the homeopaths claim that water has "memory" and would have "rememered" the curative power.

 

[PhantomLlama]

2. Vaccines actually contain inactive or weakened pahtogens allowing the immune system to generat antibodies to fight a full strengh attack by the disease. Homeopathic remedies are almost to a one diluted to the point where it falls below Avogadro's number meaning any remant of the original substance would be there purely by accident. Of course the homeopaths claim that water has "memory" and would have "rememered" the curative power.

Yes. The 'most powerful' homeopathic remedies contain no trace of the active ingredient at all. It is truly nonsensical.

 

[USincognito]

Yes. The 'most powerful' homeopathic remedies contain no trace of the active ingredient at all. It is truly nonsensical.

I do wish some of the ladies from the thread in the Education forum (linked to in the OP) would have seen and replied to this thread defending "Laws" and "Principles" of homeopathy. Or any supporter for that matter.