Is Grandma in Heaven?

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?

(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)

Sabertooth · Feb 2, 2021

There are arguments for both; no one on this side of Heaven can really know for sure.

Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord [2 Corinthians 5:8],
and he spoke of those who now sleep [1 Thessalonians 4:13-16] referring to the dead in Christ.

returntosender · Feb 2, 2021

Hanging by a Thread said:
At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?

(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)

And yet the bible says "absent from the body, present with the Lord"

Jeshu · Feb 2, 2021

Hanging by a Thread said:
At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?

(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)

Jesus said those who believe in Him have past over from death to life. So if your grand mother had her life in Jesus then she is still going strong and will forever.

John 5:23 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Aussie Pete · Feb 2, 2021

Hanging by a Thread said:
At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?

(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)

Time means nothing in heaven. A thousand years is like a day and a day like a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8) God knows everything so judgement, in that sense, has already happened.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus indicates that judgement is immediate following death. Others may think differently.

ViaCrucis · Feb 2, 2021

Hanging by a Thread said:
At funerals they say “She’s in a better place now”. But what I find in the Bible is that Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the Dead. And as far as I know, we’re all still waiting, so judgment day has yet to occur. So where’s Grandma?

(Please no responses regarding Grandma’s judgment. That’s not the intent of the question. For the sake of this post, let’s assume Grandma has met the requirements to get into heaven)

While Scripture doesn't talk a lot about it, it very much does speak of our time between death and resurrection as being with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).

It's good to recognize that the principle focus of Scripture--and indeed, of the entire historical teaching and confession of the Christian Church since the beginning--is that there is the future bodily resurrection of the dead and life everlasting in the Age to Come, with the renewal of all creation; it isn't as though between death and resurrection there is simply some kind of non-existence. We very much do continue to exist between death and resurrection. In the Apocalypse of St. John he writes about seeing the souls of the martyrs before God in heaven, when Jesus speaks about Gehenna and Paradise He is talking about the abodes of the dead in Hades/She'ol. So when He says to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" He is telling the thief that he will be counted among the righteous, and found in the place of the righteous dead.

So while Scripture doesn't have a lot to say about the "afterlife", it's not as though Scripture has nothing to say. It's just that it's not all that important in the larger picture. Yes, between death and resurrection we will be with the Lord. Think of it as a foretaste of what is to come.

-CryptoLutheran

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Sabertooth said:
There are arguments for both; no one on this side of Heaven can really know for sure.

Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord [2 Corinthians 5:8],
and he spoke of those who now sleep [1 Thessalonians 4:13-16] referring to the dead in Christ.

thanks for the reply, Sabertooth.
Yep, no one knows for sure what happens after we die until we die. Yet, "what happens after we die" is one of, if not the only, foundation for Christianity. Seems as though the Bible would have offered more clarity on this.

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

alllivesmatter said:
And yet the bible says "absent from the body, present with the Lord"

thanks for the reply, alllives.
yeah, it says that. But in its context doesn't really address where grandma is at this moment.

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Jeshu said:
Jesus said those who believe in Him have past over from death to life. So if your grand mother had her life in Jesus then she is still going strong and will forever.

John 5:23 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

thanks for the reply, Jeshu.
Yeah, I've already established grandma's worthiness in my initial post. So she's going to heaven eventually. I'm just wondering if we can say she's in a better place now (meaning heaven), or is she waiting on judgment day? And if she's waiting, where is she waiting?

Jeshu · Feb 2, 2021

Hanging by a Thread said:
thanks for the reply, Jeshu.
Yeah, I've already established grandma's worthiness in my initial post. So she's going to heaven eventually. I'm just wondering if we can say she's in a better place now (meaning heaven), or is she waiting on judgment day? And if she's waiting, where is she waiting?

Eternal life doesn't start after we die it begins when we accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour over our life. Like Jesus says We cross over from death to life.

So yes if your grand mother believed in Jesus she is with Jesus right now.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Aussie Pete said:
Time means nothing in heaven. A thousand years is like a day and a day like a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8) God knows everything so judgement, in that sense, has already happened.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus indicates that judgement is immediate following death. Others may think differently.

Thanks for the reply, Aussie.
Ok, so you think based on the story of Lazarus that Heaven or Hell is immediate. I won't argue with that because I'm a bit confused on what the correct answer would be. Others may think differently because the Bible seems to indicate Judgment for entry into heaven will occur when Jesus returns. And as far as Grandma is concerned, I don't think we need to worry about her having to wait around if that's the case. Because, yeah, time means nothing in heaven- a thousand years is a small percentage of eternity. But here on earth, a day is not like a thousand years. A day is like a day. So I'm wondering if today it's accurate to say Grandma is in heaven now, maybe even looking down upon us, maybe even interceding on our behalf. It seems these are some of the things we cling to as we greive, but is this substantiated?

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
While Scripture doesn't talk a lot about it, it very much does speak of our time between death and resurrection as being with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).

It's good to recognize that the principle focus of Scripture--and indeed, of the entire historical teaching and confession of the Christian Church since the beginning--is that there is the future bodily resurrection of the dead and life everlasting in the Age to Come, with the renewal of all creation; it isn't as though between death and resurrection there is simply some kind of non-existence. We very much do continue to exist between death and resurrection. In the Apocalypse of St. John he writes about seeing the souls of the martyrs before God in heaven, when Jesus speaks about Gehenna and Paradise He is talking about the abodes of the dead in Hades/She'ol. So when He says to the thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" He is telling the thief that he will be counted among the righteous, and found in the place of the righteous dead.

So while Scripture doesn't have a lot to say about the "afterlife", it's not as though Scripture has nothing to say. It's just that it's not all that important in the larger picture. Yes, between death and resurrection we will be with the Lord. Think of it as a foretaste of what is to come.

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for the reply ViaCrusis.
So... some type of pergatory then? And I'm using the term pergatory loosely here. I'm not entirely sure of the definition and I'm afraid I might have seen somewhere that pergatory involves some type of suffering. That's not what I'm suggesting, but rather some type of place in waiting. Heh-heh, I dunno, maybe if that's the case there could be spirits among us.

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Jeshu said:
Eternal life doesn't start after we die it begins when we accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour over our life. Like Jesus says We cross over from death to life.

So yes if your grand mother believed in Jesus she is with Jesus right now.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Ok. And I'm not disagreeing. I'm just wondering about how this would fit in with Jesus coming back to Judge the living and the dead, presumably for admission to heaven. And while eternal life may start before we die as you say, heaven doesn't start before we die. At least I hope not. I'm kinda expecting something better than this (LOL). If I make the cut, that is (another LOL).

HARK! · Feb 2, 2021

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF

Jeshu · Feb 2, 2021

Hanging by a Thread said:
I'm kinda expecting something better than this (LOL). If I make the cut, that is (another LOL).

Heaven is bliss but in part we are already part of this bliss. Receiving God's grace is bliss. The joy of His salvation is bliss. As we know thankfulness praises God continually.

So i think in small Heaven begins on this earth. Like Jesus says there is no judgement for those who are in Christ for then we have already died to our sin and live in newness. So if your grand mother loved Jesus and let Him shape her life then she is celebrating eternity with Him right now.

So i understand faith in Jesus translates to an ever increasing eternal blissfulness within the heart of the believer that ultimately arrives in Heaven when the flesh can't hold it back any longer.

What is sown perishable will be reaped eternally that is the promise we have from Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:54-57
"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Bob Crowley · Feb 2, 2021

I'm probably being a bit blunt, and somewhat less empathetic than the OP would wish, but the "particular" (personal) judgement takes place immediately after death.

I don't know where the OP's grandmother is now, but spiritually she's still alive, and (speaking as a Catholic) in one of three places - heaven, hell (hopefully not - I'm assuming she was a Christian or at least lived what might be called a Christian life) or purgatory (which I believe exists). Anyone in Purgatory gets to heaven eventually - it's a place of spiritual refinement, since nobody gets into heaven unless they're literally perfect.

The Catholic Catechism has these things to say about judgement.

I. THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT

1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. 592 The New Testament speaks of judgement primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others. 593

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgement that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification 594 or immediately, 595 -- or immediate and everlasting damnation. 596

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597

II. HEAVEN

1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face:598

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire: 607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come. 608

IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

V. THE LAST JUDGMENT

1038 The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man's] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625

1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man's relationship with God will be laid bare.626 The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life:

So the particular judgement takes place immediately after death. The Last Judgement, which we will all attend at the same time, will be a stupendous event in which everybody will somehow see "to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life."

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Sabertooth said:
Statement of Purpose, each sub-forum has its own ground rules.

Oh, Ok. Thanks Sabertooth. I'm not gonna review every SOP on this site so can you tell me if my post or status on this site will be compromised when the Mods come swooping in to move my content? If not, I'd have no problem with them moving my thread to any category they feel is appropriate.

mlepfitjw · Feb 2, 2021

Was he coming back for us? Or was he coming back for that generation then? If you read 1 thess or second thess it seems like they were encouraged to be waiting then. For his return so I believe Jesus is with us now and there is no more waiting.

The Bible talks about inheriting glory of Christ, also a spiritual inhabitation (mansion) body after this life in 1 Corinthians 15.

Granda met the requirements and was a believer, she receives her spiritual glorifyied body that was by being joint heir with Christ as a daughter of God, in some cases a babe in Christ, at her death going onward to God into the new heavenly Jerusalem. Those without go unto the outside of the heavenly Jerusalem.

This is seen at the end of revelation.

I am always capable to be wrong and that this teaching sounds utterly ridiculous but it is what I believe would happen to grandma according to the Bible and what has been taught.

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Bob Crowley said:
I'm probably being a bit blunt, and somewhat less empathetic than the OP would wish, but the "particular" (personal) judgement takes place immediately after death.

I don't know where the OP's grandmother is now, but spiritually she's still alive, and (speaking as a Catholic) in one of three places - heaven, hell (hopefully not - I'm assuming she was a Christian or at least lived what might be called a Christian life) or purgatory (which I believe exists). Anyone in Purgatory gets to heaven eventually - it's a place of spiritual refinement, since nobody gets into heaven unless they're literally perfect.

The Catholic Catechism has these things to say about judgement.

So the particular judgement takes place immediately after death. The Last Judgement, which we will all attend at the same time, will be a stupendous event in which everybody will somehow see "to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life."

Thanks for the response, Bob. I'm new so I don't know for sure, but I take it I'm the OP (original poster?). I don't see anything blunt or lacking in empathy, btw. I'm Catholic, but not a good enough Catholic to know the Catechism so well. The issue is clearly addressed and informative so thanks for pointing it out. I'm also not very smart, so one read won't be enough for me, I'll have to go back and read the portion of the catechism more slowly. But first glance (and your last sentence) tells me there are two judgments and that there is, in fact, a purgatory. Still not clear on what the purpose of the last judgment would be if souls go immediately to heaven or hell. Makes sense for the souls in purgatory, though, as they apparently are waiting to make their way into heaven (unless there's a specified time period for purification). I've become a bit wary of Catholocism, though, as it seems there have been some liberties taken in translating the Bible. The Bible doesn't directly refer to a purgatory for example. The word and concept is apparently created by Catholic officials. But they do site scripture as their foundation/reference, so fair enough I guess.

Hanging by a Thread · Feb 2, 2021

Agallagher said:
Was he coming back for us? Or was he coming back for that generation then? If you read 1 thess or second thess it seems like they were encouraged to be waiting then. For his return so I believe Jesus is with us now and there is no more waiting.

The Bible talks about inheriting glory of Christ, also a spiritual inhabitation (mansion) body after this life in 1 Corinthians 15.

Granda met the requirements and was a believer, she receives her spiritual glorifyied body that was by being joint heir with Christ as a daughter of God, in some cases a babe in Christ, at her death going onward to God into the new heavenly Jerusalem. Those without go unto the outside of the heavenly Jerusalem.

This is seen at the end of revelation.

I am always capable to be wrong and that this teaching sounds utterly ridiculous but it is what I believe would happen to grandma according to the Bible and what has been taught.

thanks for the reply, Agallagher.
forgive me, but I'm not sure I'm completely understanding your post (I'm not all that smart, so it sometimes takes a while to get through to me).
Here's what I'm gathering from your post:
1)That the second coming has already occured. I don't find that to be all that ridiculous (not saying that's what I believe,but I don't rule it out). In fact, I think there're several sections of the Bible that would imply that Jesus or God's instructions were meant only for the current generation being addressed. There's a quote from Jesus that comes to mind, but I don't have it front of me. Something along the lines of "this generation will not pass before all these things take place".
2) That grandma, having met the requirements is already in Heaven.
3) I don't know what is meant by "outside of the heavenly Jerusalem" but my guess is that this is hell.
4) My interpretation of your post could be completely off the mark.

Is Grandma in Heaven?

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