Is God's love unconditional?

[discipler7]

You're helping me illustrate my point that people can read biblical text and see one god (an angry destructive murderous and vengeful god) and completely miss the loving, compassionate, merciful, healing God that desires salvation for all (and is victorious enough to achieve it).

Not true.
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1THESS.4: =
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
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REVELATION.20: =
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
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REV.21: =
6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[discipler7]

But... nevertheless...

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Go and learn what this means...

JOHN.21: =
Jesus Restores Peter
15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”

16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”

17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”

And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”

Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

.... instead of feeding and tending dogs, swines, wolves and serpents.

 

[SBC]

“Greater Love hath no man, than He lay down His life for His friends”

He died for all of us! He counts all His friends and even when we act like His enemy!

Love makes all occur and God is the source of that love!

Just to add ~
Agree, he laid down his life, for all of mankind.

However all of mankind DO NOT lay down their life FOR HIM.

Those that DO lay down their life FOR HIM,
Agree THEY are His Friends.

Because ~ Blood is the Life of Mankind.
Because ~ God requires the Life of Mankind.
Because ~ A FRIEND is the one who GIVES,
His Life, even thou ALL LIVES SHALL BE TAKEN, whether GIVEN or Not.

Jesus came to Divide ~
Some shall Give ~ Some shal Not Give.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Grip Docility]

.
Go and learn what this means...

JOHN.21: =
Jesus Restores Peter
15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”

16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”

He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”

He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”

17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”

And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”

Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

.... instead of feeding and tending dogs, swines, wolves and serpents.

Congratulations... your interpretation is so far from scriptural verbiage and lingual intent, with so much added perception that derails the natural flow of your selected passage... I’m calling “context” foul.

Peter fed a certain sheep... and if you don’t remember “Galatians 1 and 2”... I’ll give you a quick refresher...

Galatians 2:8 For the same God who worked through Peter as the apostle to the Jews also worked through me as the apostle to the Gentiles

Remember this???

Matthew 15:25

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel​

Hmmmmm... since Christians are neither Jew nor Gentile... we would be... “Dogs... Snakes... Swine...” by your divisional logic...

Here... let me drop a link I overdrop and see if you catch my drift...

 

[Grip Docility]

Just to add ~
Agree, he laid down his life, for all of mankind.

However all of mankind DO NOT lay down their life FOR HIM.

Those that DO lay down their life FOR HIM,
Agree THEY are His Friends.

Because ~ Blood is the Life of Mankind.
Because ~ God requires the Life of Mankind.
Because ~ A FRIEND is the one who GIVES,
His Life, even thou ALL LIVES SHALL BE TAKEN, whether GIVEN or Not.

Jesus came to Divide ~
Some shall Give ~ Some shal Not Give.

God Bless,
SBC

I can not deny the biblical support for your well made point...

I am simply admitting that there seems to be allusion towards a possible show stopping qlimax that may drive, even the most stubborn to their knees... out of humility and reverence...

I say “seems”... because I note that different passages may lean one way or the other.

Words from the book of Joel about “Even Now”.,, bring me hope in our Hope of Hopes... that we may witness something we never could predict or begin to comprehend....

I.E. the fruits of the Labor of Love... to God.

 

[SBC]

I can not deny the biblical support for your well made point...

I am simply admitting that there seems to be allusion towards a possible show stopping qlimax that may drive, even the most stubborn to their knees... out of humility and reverence...

Well noted.
While men ARE alive, everyone experiences A "low", AND for those IN Christ, He is their Comforter; AND for those who do NOT believe, perhaps, hopefully, they will have nothing to Turn to BUT God.

While men ARE dead, then brought into a state of living, (ie the unsaved), the show stopping climax, shall be, they will believe, because THEY SEE the Son of Man, ie the Lord, not because of FAITH.

I say “seems”... because I note that different passages may lean one way or the other.

Passages ARE different, because they apply to men who have made different choices.
(Ie, some are new to learning About, some are committed, some are not committed, some reject).

Words from the book of Joel about “Even Now”.,, bring me hope in our Hope of Hopes... that we may witness something we never could predict or begin to comprehend....

Even now ~ agree. We can not predict, but we can experience, recognize what WAS foretold, coming to pass, in our era.

I.E. the fruits of the Labor of Love... to God.

I see what you are saying, but would lean more toward, What is foretold, coming to pass, AS IS Gods Works being revealed.

I see as you ARE saying, Works of Man, being recognized as fruits of mans Labor, as well being revealed.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[mkgal1]

You're helping me illustrate my point that people can read biblical text and see one god (an angry destructive murderous and vengeful god) and completely miss the loving, compassionate, merciful, healing God that desires salvation for all (and is victorious enough to achieve it).

Not true.
.
1THESS.4: =

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REVELATION.20: =

What are you arguing isn't true in my post (that you're making my point by showing two different people can read the same text and arrive at different conclusions.....completely different characteristics of God)?

....or that it isn't true that God desires ALL to be saved....as 1st Timothy 2:3-4 says (as is the whole theme throughout Scripture...from Genesis to Revelation...unless you get stuck looking at the detail of a few trees and miss the whole forest)?

"This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.."~1st Timothy 2:3-4

Ezekiel 18:23

Ezekiel 18:32

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him".~John 3:17

​

 

[Grip Docility]

Not true.
.
1THESS.4: =
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
.
.
REVELATION.20: =
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
.
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REV.21: =
6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Interesting you quoted the 2nd death verse...

Lazarus is a monkey wrench to that..,

Incidentally... why would God raise those not in Him... from “Hades”?

Do you suppose he’s like a Nazi doctor raising someone from Death to torture them some more?

Hmmmmm...

Is it possible God has “hidden” plans that involve His desire that “None should be lost, but all come to repentance”?

Can you find hope where there appears to be none?

I know a carpenter that finds hope when no one else believes it’s there.

 

[discipler7]

Is it possible God has “hidden” plans that involve His desire that “None should be lost, but all come to repentance”?

People are not created by God as robots. People have the freedom of choice to reject or accept God and His plans, viz-a-viz, reject or accept Satan/mammon and his plans.
... Hence, we have millions of unrepentant Satanists, atheists, LGBTQs, animists, witches/mediums, New Agers and other unbelievers(in God/Jesus) on this rotten earth, some of whom are also incorrigible sinners/evildoers.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
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PROVERBS.1: = 24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
.
.
REVELATION.2: =
The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

24 “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.

29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
.
.
REVELATION.3: =
The Dead Church
3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ ...

The Lukewarm Church
14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

 

[Grip Docility]

People are not created by God as robots. People have the freedom of choice to reject or accept God and His plans, viz-a-viz, reject or accept Satan/mammon and his plans.
... Hence, we have millions of unrepentant Satanists, atheists, LGBTQs, animists, witches/mediums, New Agers and other unbelievers(in God/Jesus) on this rotten earth, some of whom are also incorrigible sinners/evildoers.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
.
PROVERBS.1: = 24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
.
.
REVELATION.2: =
The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

24 “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.

29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’
.
.
REVELATION.3: =
The Dead Church
3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ ...

The Lukewarm Church
14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Hmmmmm.... still room for hope....

Faith, Hope and Love.... but the greatest of these is the ability to fixate on hopelessness?!?

You know... it’s not like Jesus’ first coming shook things up and revealed some hidden things... right???

Hope........

 

[discipler7]

Hope........

.????
.
... More like false hope or Christians 'sleeping with the enemy', eg gay bishops and pastors.

 

[Grip Docility]

.????
.
... More like false hope or Christians 'sleeping with the enemy', eg gay bishops and pastors.

???

That was an interesting response.....

 

[discipler7]

???

That was an interesting response.....

.
JOHN.6: =
Many Disciples Turn Away
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
.
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MATTHEW.10: =
Sending Out the Twelve
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

 

[Grip Docility]

.
JOHN.6: =
Many Disciples Turn Away
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.
.
.
MATTHEW.10: =
Sending Out the Twelve
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

I’ll say this... it feels all neat and clean to “close theology.., into a systematic box”... and especially good to believe we have gleaned all the answers...

But those old dry bones are subject to the source of all life and plans beyond our comprehension are most likely in play.

Me... Personally... I cling to Faith, Hope and Love... with the knowledge that it’s best I take a seat next to Job and recognize I don’t have all the answers and His ways are far more Loving and Unknowable than my ways...

If my last, broken paragraph were a chocolate chip and the Bible was a cookie... I bet you couldn’t read 20 pages without biting a chip...

All of 1 John 2:27 to you...

 

[Rajni]

People are not created by God as robots. People have the freedom of choice to reject or accept God and His plans, viz-a-viz, reject or accept Satan/mammon and his plans.

According to scripture, we're not even as autonomous as robots.
Scripture calls us "clay". *Clay*. And guess Who the Potter is?

We have a limited range of choice, but we are not sovereign. And
scripture also says that no one can thwart God's will. So if God
"will have all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth",
guess what?

Hence, we have millions of unrepentant Satanists, atheists, LGBTQs, animists, witches/mediums, New Agers and other unbelievers(in God/Jesus) on this rotten earth, some of whom are also incorrigible sinners/evildoers.

They are that way now, but will they always be? How about all
those unrepentant types who did repent? You seem to think that
anyone who is in a state of non-repentance now will never change
from that.

Surely you have at least a little faith that God knows what He's
doing. He came to seek and save the lost. I trust He's up to the
task. ツ


-

 

[mkgal1]

I think @Light of the East had an excellent response to the tension of free will in another thread (and I believe all of us in this thread believe that love has to be given freely in order to be genuine love).

Right now all we have is a perception of God (and from this thread...we can see how varied that can be)......we're not fully experiencing who He truly is:

But then the question becomes whether the person will continue to reject God once the blindness of this sin-cursed life is lifted and one sees God - not as God is imagined or thought to be - as He truly is. The question then becomes one of free-will, because I do agree with you that the essence of love is free-will. If one does not have a choice (free-will) then one cannot love. This is the difference between us and a robot.

No one really knows the answer to this question. We do not have any understanding of the state of the soul after death. There is nothing in Scripture which states unequivocally that repentance is impossible after death.

What we do know, however, is that God is love. And because He IS love (not just that He loves, but His very ontological makeup is love) that He can do no other than to love. Therefore, He will continue to manifest love towards every soul that has ever lived. The Medieval ideas of Dante and the Roman Catholic ideas of that time of God pitching souls into hell and then reveling in the glory that their damnation brings to Him should repulse any thoughtful person.

Love does not seek revenge - love forgives.

Love does not quit - it perseveres.

Love does not hate - it seeks only the best, even for its enemies.

I believe the proper understanding of the next life is found in Holy Orthodoxy. The position of the Orthodox is that all souls are redeemed and brought into the presence of God. Those who have spent this life in repentance, seeking God, doing good works, and deeds of ascesis for the growth of their soul into Christlikeness, shall find the presence of God to be a warming, passionate fire. Scripture states that our God is a burning fire, and that fire is the passion of His love.

But those who have hated God, loved wickedness, and gone their own way, shall find His very presence to be utter torment. This is not God's doing, but man's. The love God expresses to all in the next life is the same for all - the righteous find it joy, the wicked find it torment.

And the question remains - can they change? Traditional Western theology says no. But where is their proof, other than the ruminations of Augustine and Aquinas?

Some links here as food for thought:

The River of Fire - Kalomiros - Glory to God for All Things

And this one on free-will and repentance after death:

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

 

[discipler7]

And
scripture also says that no one can thwart God's will. So if God
"will have all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth",
guess what?

.
MATTHEW.7: =
The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
.
.

MATTHEW.19: =
With God All Things Are Possible
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

 

[Grip Docility]

.
MATTHEW.7: =
The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
.
.

MATTHEW.19: =
With God All Things Are Possible
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

Hard isn’t impossible... verse 26, of your quoted Matthew 19 kind of hangs there as a reminder that “impossible” is a bad idea to bring up, when discussing God’s Love.

Jesus even tells the Matthew 23 crew... “How can you avoid Gehenna”.., not you’re all going to Hell, but “How can you”...

Why are you looking to bring “Elitism” into the Gospel?

Narrow Way was a reference to the Tabrinacle Door... by the way.

Few... “find it”... but what of those that meet the “Narrow Way”, Face to face in Times to come? What will come of that?

Only God knows...

 

[Rajni]

.
MATTHEW.7: =
The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
.
.

MATTHEW.19: =
With God All Things Are Possible
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”

Are you trying to illustrate how scripture contradicts itself?
Because that seems to be the message that's coming through
with your posts.


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