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Is God's Love Conditional or Unconditional?
- Thread starter wendykvw
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How so? The scripture will interpret scripture if one allows it to. The problem lies when we rely on our own interpretations instead of the Word of God. Proverbs 3:5
If you love Me, keep My commandments will never turn into:
If you love Me,
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d taylor
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Again how is keeping my commandments connected to Matthew 7:21 where John 6:40 plainly states what the will of the Father is and that is to believe in the One He sent.
Again keeping My commandments being connected to Matthew 7:21 only makes sense to one who is trying to attain Eternal Life through the Law (the keeping of the commandments). which is a work based Eternal Life salvation and is no salvation at all.
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- Jun 12, 2020
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Scripture does not delete scripture, instead it builds on it. Are you saying we should ignore the Words of Jesus and the warning He gives that He will say depart from me, for those He doesn't know and those who practice lawlessness?
How are we known to God which reconciles with Matthew 7:21-23?
1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
We are going in a circular argument. If you believe in Jesus, does that mean we believe in His teachings and believe what He has asked us to do, or does believe mean, I believe in you, but don't need to obey what you ask? Thats the choice the devil made.
Work based salvation is when you depend on your works instead of the works of God. You are depending on yourself to become self-righteous instead of depending on God. When we believe what God asks through faith, that what He is asking is for our own good, we are allowing God's righteousness (right doing) to be fulfilled in us. When we go away from the teachings of scripture and stop being obedient to God, we are depending on ourselves to be righteous that we know better than what God's asks of us. We can't work our way into heaven, God wants a relationship with us and through that relationship we should be transformed to want to do the things that God asks because you love Him and have faith in what He asks.
We have two choices; we are either a slave to God or a slave to sin.... one leads us to the right path, the other to destruction which is what Jesus warns us about in Matthew 7:21-23 and Hebrews 10:26-30 and throughout the scriptures.
Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
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Fervent
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God's love is unconditional, but many people don't understand what unconditional love means. Unconditional love is not unfettered acceptance, it has boundaries and sets limits. It does not tolerate every action, and it enforces consequences. Unconditional love simply means that there is no need for it to be earned, as it is given from God's character. So God's love being unconditional in no way implies that salvation extends to everyone.
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d taylor
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Jesus took away the sin of the world at the cross. Sin plays no factor in a person receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Even unbelievers at the great white throne judgment are not judged for sins.
So do you know when you quote verses from books like 1 John, etc.. these writings are written to believers to encourage disciplined discipleship. These verses have noting to do with an unbeliever and how they receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
So you can keep posting verses but if you are not using them in the correct manner and addressing the correct audience. In the specific instruction these verse are intended to be given to believers, then you come up with misplace application of scripture by stating statements like. The will of The Father in Matthew 7:21 is connected to John 14:15 which is addressing the love of the disciples.
My last post on this.
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- Jun 12, 2020
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Thats not what my bible says:
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
or what Jesus says:
Revelation 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Or John and one of the last scriptures before the Second Coming of Jesus:
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16).
And why we are told to overcome until the end: Revelation 21:7, Revelation 3:21
We are saved by grace through our faith. Ephesians 2:8 We are made to do good works Ephesians 2:10. We are not saved by works and there is nothing that we can do by ourselves that can save us. Everyone has sinned and fallen short, but with the power of Jesus Christ we can receive eternal life when we confess our sins and turn from sin. 1 John 1:9 1 John 3:4. Jesus wants a relationship with us and through that relationship we should start turning over our will and replace it with the will of God, through our relationship with Jesus our thoughts and actions will be changed. Jesus said “If you love Me, keep My commandments” John 14:15. You don’t keep His commandments to be saved, you keep them because you have a changed heart, you keep them because you love. 1 John 5:3. Exodus 20:6 It’s the fruit of ones faith. Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12
Love according to scripture is keeping the commandments.
showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3
If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15
The whole bible is one continues book and everything must reconcile. I don't see how these verses are out of context when Jesus is saying in His own Words, that not everyone who calls on Him Lord Lord will be saved, but those who He knows, that does not practice lawlessness (repents and turns from sin) which is the will of God. I am only sharing these scriptures because people have watered down God's salvation to their own destruction. Jesus in His own words are telling us not to do that. If we love God, why would we not keep His commandments and do what He asks?
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Mink61
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Boy oh boy...you said a mouthful here! And I wonder why some people don't get this.
If a toddler 'acts up', a father may be inclined to put that toddler in a "time out." Does that mean that the father doesn't "love" that child?
And if a pre-teen accidentally throws a softball into the neighbor's window, and the father withholds a certain amount of the pre-teens allowance for several weeks, until the window is paid for, does that mean that the father doesn't love the child?
And if the father's 19 year old decides to drink and drive, getting his third DUI in a year, and is sent to prison, does that mean that the father doesn't love him anymore?
Even if someone becomes a serial killer/mass murderer, and they end up receiving a sentence of several hundred years, it doesn't mean that the father doesn't love that person.
We don't end up in hell because God doesn't "love" us, ANY MORE, than that adult child serial killer ends up in prison, because his father doesn't "love" him.
Too many people seem so concerned about whether or not God "loves" US "unconditionally" that we fail to ask, "Do WE love God... unconditionally?"
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Close but no cigar . His love is for all sinners , all men , all mankind, all the world , no exceptions.
hope this helps !!!
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Fervent
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Of course He loves all, and extends His mercy to all. This doesn't mean all receive salvation, though, simply that He places no barrier for them to turn to Him. We can hope that all will turn to Him, and that is His desire, but it doesn't appear as if all will. And those who don't will suffer the consequences of their choice, because He loves them not in spite of His love for them.
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sawdust
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I say conditional.
His agape love, given freely to all men, is conditional upon His own integrity. God is love.
His brotherly love, given only to the family of God, is given on the basis of fulfilling His will.
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The consensus according to the poll “God’s love is unconditional”. This is good news. Does this nullify God’s faithfulness to redeem everyone? As Paul says: “ certainly not.”Romans 3:3
Paul, who persecuted the church, has a revelation on the road to Damascus. He didn't seek out Christ willingly and had no intention of coming to Faith in Christ. Paul discloses to the Galatian Church that he has come to understand the faithfulness of Christ. Paul is indicating that the Faithfulness of Christ saved him! Imagine the transformation of Paul, who was a teacher of the law, Paul was accustomed to living under the sacrificial rituals of the old covenant. In the old covenant, intercession was required; "Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins." (Heb 10:11) Paul discovers a new revelation on the road to Damascus, the new covenant of Grace. And Paul writes to Timothy;
" ..Even though I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an arrogant man. But I received mercy because I acted out of ignorance in unbelief".(1 Timothy 1:13)
Many have been taught that redemption is limited to those who seek it...and Christ only intercedes for those who accept Him, but Paul didn't fit into any of these categories.
"I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here I am! Here I am!'
... (Isaiah 65:1)
Paul speaks of those who are unfaithful:
" True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful? Certainly not!
(Romans 3:3)
And in the Epistle of Timothy, Paul speaks on lack of faith.
... if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13)
The Persecutor of the Church, Paul, who was faithless and who did not search for Christ by faith, was found by the faithfulness of Christ ..."He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself".
"For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it."
(Galatians 1:13)
Paul discovers that Christ and His faithfulness will help us, He understands our weakness, and intercedes on our behalf.
"So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. "( Romans 9:16)
Paul, who persecuted the church, has a revelation on the road to Damascus. He didn't seek out Christ willingly and had no intention of coming to Faith in Christ. Paul discloses to the Galatian Church that he has come to understand the faithfulness of Christ. Paul is indicating that the Faithfulness of Christ saved him! Imagine the transformation of Paul, who was a teacher of the law, Paul was accustomed to living under the sacrificial rituals of the old covenant. In the old covenant, intercession was required; "Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins." (Heb 10:11) Paul discovers a new revelation on the road to Damascus, the new covenant of Grace. And Paul writes to Timothy;
" ..Even though I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an arrogant man. But I received mercy because I acted out of ignorance in unbelief".(1 Timothy 1:13)
Many have been taught that redemption is limited to those who seek it...and Christ only intercedes for those who accept Him, but Paul didn't fit into any of these categories.
"I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here I am! Here I am!'
... (Isaiah 65:1)
Paul speaks of those who are unfaithful:
" True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they were unfaithful, does that mean God will be unfaithful? Certainly not!
(Romans 3:3)
And in the Epistle of Timothy, Paul speaks on lack of faith.
... if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13)
The Persecutor of the Church, Paul, who was faithless and who did not search for Christ by faith, was found by the faithfulness of Christ ..."He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself".
"For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it."
(Galatians 1:13)
Paul discovers that Christ and His faithfulness will help us, He understands our weakness, and intercedes on our behalf.
"So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. "( Romans 9:16)
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God our Father conditions everything upon Himself. It is His mighty Will that prevails!
"He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes--we who were the first to fix our hopes on Christ. ~F.R. Weymouth
The whole creation = Us & them.
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jamiec
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Unconditional.
Salvation is also unconditional, because it is impossible for God to be, in the strict sense, indebted or beholden to any mere creature. For the same reason, grace must be wholly unconditional, based on nothing whatsoever in the creature. God's favour, precisely because it is God's, cannot possibly be earned. It can only be given, as a gift that is wholly free.
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Think about it by using the prodigal son story:
If a prodigal son type does not return home but decides to take the punishment he fully deserves and not further pester his father for something he totally does not deserve and thus stays in the pigsty and dies, did the father stop Loving the son?
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