Is God omnipotent and controls everything?

[zoidar]

Maybe you can explain why you don’t think God is glorified in all that He does.

It's late here. Got to go to bed. We'll see if I come up with something to say tomorrow. Good night!

 

[Swag365]

I'm sorry, who are the adults? Mankind are children, not adults.

When you become an adult, you put aside your childish ways.

 

[Swag365]

Hammster said, in response to Zoidar's, "Ah, then I used it correctly. I don't believe God forordains everything.": "Then He foreordains nothing." Already we see here the relevance of Cause-and-Effect. Then when Zoidar responds, "why?", Hammster says: "...everything has an affect on something else. We may not understand how, but there’s always a connection." You still see no relevance to Cause-and-Effect? Every effect is caused, and there is only one First Cause.

Friend, naturally as a Catholic I believe in Aquinas's Five Ways. The assertion was that everything has an affect on something else, not that everything that occurs was caused by something before it. The former is false, the latter is true (except in the case of God, who is eternal).

 

[Tone]

How about this (@zoidar ):

He sees all things unfolded before Him.

He may whip out His microscope and examine every single crease...and zoom in even more and see all the particles that make up the creases.

But does He do this? Or does He just Speak on certain significant folds?


Like saying, "Look at this fold. It is important, because the weave of its fabric meets with this other fabric as they enfold."

Take the significant story about Jacob and Esau. Didn't the Creator state in advance that "The elder shall serve the younger"?

But does this mean that He orchestrated or even magnified every particular that Rebecca herself weaved into the narrative?

What if she simply heard the revelation of the fold (that the elder shall serve the younger) and took it upon herself to manifest it in the context of her own life?

And when this occurred did the Creator maybe decide that this would be an acceptable weave within the pattern He envisioned?

The Seamstress

 

[martymonster]

When you become an adult, you put aside your childish ways.

Adam and even were children. That is why they did the one thing they were told not to.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Friend, naturally as a Catholic I believe in Aquinas's Five Ways. The assertion was that everything has an affect on something else, not that everything that occurs was caused by something before it. The former is false, the latter is true (except in the case of God, who is eternal).

You may find many of us Reformed to be less rigidly encased in your notion of determinism than you realize. I can't speak for Hammster, but note: God even allows prayers to sway him, he put Moses in place for that very purpose. So Cause-and-effect, in which God is involved, is not necessarily time-sequence dependent, but cause dependent. Have you ever prayed concerning an outcome that you know has already happened, but you don't know what that outcome was? Do you think God is not swayed by such prayers too, and sometimes grants those prayers, from before they were prayed? To timeless God, is OUR "before and after" really relevant?

 

[Swag365]

You may find many of us Reformed to be less rigidly encased in your notion of determinism than you realize. I can't speak for Hammster, but note: God even allows prayers to sway him, he put Moses in place for that very purpose. So Cause-and-effect, in which God is involved, is not necessarily time-sequence dependent, but cause dependent. Have you ever prayed concerning an outcome that you know has already happened, but you don't know what that outcome was? Do you think God is not swayed by such prayers too, and sometimes grants those prayers, from before they were prayed? To timeless God, is OUR "before and after" really relevant?

I have no objections to any of this.

 

[GraceBro]

I studied this briefly in a theological course.
Yes, God is most likely omnipotent. However, even if He has the potential to do anything, it doesn't mean he would. The beauty of Creation is Free Will, and if God was to assert control over everything, humans wouldn't have the ability to choose their own paths.
If God had the ability to do anything, He would've prevented the original sin. The original sin is, as I see it, the ultimate first test of free will. Without free will, there would be no grounds for evil- as God is only good. If there is no evil, there is nothing to compare goodness to and there is no way for humans to live lives that improve and grow. There would be no ultimate incentive to learn goodness through God if everything was peachy.

This is a very big theological question with a lot of different stances, so I'd be interested in hearing what other people have to say.

God controls that which He wants to control.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thanks for the question. I appreciate it! Maybe it was predestined for you to ask this question, to bring attention to the real matter. Who knows?



That's the point of the thread, not which is true, but that all Christians believe God is omnipotent. Many times have people "thrown in the card" (Swedish expression?) in discussion "I believe in an omnipotent God" implying I do not, because I believe in free will etc. That bothers me. I just want people to understand and accept that just because we see differently on matters like predestination, foreknowledge, free will, election doesn't mean we don't believe in an omnipotent God. So there you have the reason.

Any concept, (in this case, Omnipotence), is not the same thing in the mind of one that it is in the mind of another another, or more to the point, that it is in the mind of God. Granted none of us see such a thing with the clarity and knowledge God does, but the scriptures are replete with descriptions concerning that very thing, and that, being God's very word! It is (at best) irresponsible to assume that there is no need to increase our knowledge of Omnipotence. But besides that, there is falsehood to expose concerning the nature of God, in the "Omnipotence" that some believe in.

We believers have no pure, complete, notion of Omnipotence which we espouse and cling to as a basis for all our other beliefs. So, we don't have the same notion of Omnipotence, if we "see differently on matters like predestination, foreknowledge, free will, election". And Omnipotence may just be the most important attribute of God we can intellectually pursue.

 

[zoidar]

When Christ was on the cross, was He punished for His sins? No, of course not. He was punished for sins of others. Sin deserves punishment. It shows God’s justice. And God is glorified when He shows any of His attributes.

Maybe you can explain why you don’t think God is glorified in all that He does.

Ok here we go. God is NOT glorified by punishing Jesus! I say this again. God is NOT glorified by punishing Jesus! Jesus, the Son of God was innocent, sinless, and WILLINGLY he bore the sins of the world, our sins, which he didn't have to do, but in love and mercy chose to do. This gives God GLORY! The LOVE of God was manifested in one HOLY sacrifice, His only Son and He was resurrected for our salvation to the JOY of God and and His glory.

This is the GOSPEL, the GOOD news! And they are good news indeed!

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." /John 3:16-17

For the CROSS is a declaration of God's love to mankind.

 

[Hammster]

Ok here we go. God is NOT glorified by punishing Jesus! I say this again. God is NOT glorified by punishing Jesus! Jesus, the Son of God was innocent, sinless, and WILLINGLY he bore the sins of the world, our sins, which he didn't have to do, but in love and mercy chose to do. This gives God GLORY! The LOVE of God was manifested in one HOLY sacrifice, His only Son and He was resurrected for our salvation to the JOY of God and and His glory.

This is the GOSPEL, the GOOD news! And they are good news indeed!

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." /John 3:16-17

Thanks. First question: is God glorified when punishing sin?

 

[zoidar]

Thanks. First question: is God glorified when punishing sin?

No!

God is glorified by saving people from damnation, not from "putting" people there.

 

[Hammster]

No!

God is glorified by saving people from damnation, not from "putting" people there.

Hmm. So you don’t think His anger at sin is justified?

 

[zoidar]

Hmm. So you don’t think His anger at sin is justified?

Justified, not glorified.

 

[Hammster]

Justified, not glorified.

So you don’t think the justice of God brings Him glory?

 

[zoidar]

So you don’t think the justice of God brings Him glory?

It's kind of a tricky question. I would say, bringing about justice glorifies God. The punishment itself does not.

 

[Hammster]

It's kind of a tricky question. I would say, bringing about justice glorifies God. The punishment itself does not.

The punishment does, though. It shows God’s hatred for sin. The Son took our punishment as if He has sinned. If you study the cross, all of God’s attributes were on display. And all of His attributes bring Him glory. So Christ being punished for our sin brings Glory to the Father.

 

[zoidar]

So Christ being punished for our sin brings Glory to the Father.

Yes, Jesus taking our punishment brings God glory, not the punishment.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, Jesus taking our punishment brings God glory, not the punishment.

The punishment is God’s just action against sin.

 

[lsume]

I doubt you agree, but two born again Christians can understand scripture totally different. One reason we have all these churches and denominations.

As you’ve said, I do not agree. The problem is that most professing born again Christians are not yet born again. I know in my own life I thought I was born again around 1974. It was wasn’t until around 1990 that it actually happened. There is one truth and all who are in Christ must be taught directly from Him.